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      10-11-2010, 10:07 PM   #23
Kolyan2k
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Originally Posted by pits200 View Post
Just because people believe in the advancement of technology and awd . It doesn't mean that if awd was readily available in the 60s,70s & 80s that people wouldn't have been happy to pay the premium to have that option.

I have an awd and I love the fact that with all the power this car has modded that I have less of a chance to lose control in certain conditions.

Does that mean I feel I can go 70 in the snow, of course not, but the extra piece of mind is definitely worth the extra weight even if it does hinder performance.
I was 100% confident with my m3 in new england blizzard driving 60 on the pike
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      10-11-2010, 10:21 PM   #24
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I abhorred the (non-active) steering in the couple of xdrive loaners I got. xdrive will accelerate and corner better in the snow, if equipped with snow tires, but is FAR from a necessity. Under braking, the grip is exactly the same as the i model. The way people post on here about how crucial xdrive is in the snow makes one wonder how civilization survived until the mid 90s when AWD became popular. From my point of view, why make a sacrifice related to driving for 3/4 of the year when for 1/4 of the year you may have to be a little more prudent with your decisions? It's not like any car really "shines" in the winter anyway - the xdrive just gives a little more piece of mind during winter. If you're driving just to "get there" IDK if a BMW is the car for you anway
Honestly, and I mean no offense, but your comment, "If you're driving just to "get there" IDK if a BMW is the car for you anway", makes me laugh. You drive a 3 series BMW. You do not drive a race car. In fact, you don't even drive a car that is nearly as fast in the quarter mile, around the track, or any other measurement of "fast", as SEVERAL other cars around the same price range. (EVO, Mustang GT, etc.)

You drive an entry level luxury automobile that has a relatively powerful, yet unreliable engine. Get over yourself. I love my 335 as much as you do, yet I have no delusions of grandeur.
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      10-11-2010, 10:25 PM   #25
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What kind of breaks does the 335i come with?
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      10-11-2010, 10:31 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by 2K10E92 View Post
Honestly, and I mean no offense, but your comment, "If you're driving just to "get there" IDK if a BMW is the car for you anway", makes me laugh. You drive a 3 series BMW. You do not drive a race car. In fact, you don't even drive a car that is nearly as fast in the quarter mile, around the track, or any other measurement of "fast", as SEVERAL other cars around the same price range. (EVO, Mustang GT, etc.)

You drive an entry level luxury automobile that has a relatively powerful, yet unreliable engine. Get over yourself. I love my 335 as much as you do, yet I have no delusions of grandeur.
I never claimed to drive a race car or the fastest car available to me. I am well aware of the reliability problems many have faced - I have yet to face any. I simply offered my opinion of the xdrive version of the car versus the RWD version. The drivetrain has no impact upon the engine's reliability. I have no delusions of grandeur, as it seems you have inexplicably gleaned from my posts. If you can't appreciate the difference between driving a 335 and a true "commuter/beater" car (as I came from - a Hyundai Accent) then I may make to you the same suggestion that most do not pay a "premium" for the BMW just to simply arrive places

My assessment was completely derived from street driving, not from the track. I do not push limits on the street in unsafe conditions, at that I rarely do so in the first place. I however found xdrive to be less settled and predictable than the RWD format. And I am in no way "used" to RWD - my other two cars have been FWD.

Last edited by BTM; 10-11-2010 at 10:40 PM.
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      10-11-2010, 11:08 PM   #27
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I find it ironic that many of those exclaiming the increased performance and sporty driving of the rear drive 3 series also drive an automatic
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      10-11-2010, 11:20 PM   #28
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I find it ironic that many of those exclaiming the increased performance and sporty driving of the rear drive 3 series also drive an automatic
It's all a trade off, speaking for myself I've explained my affinity for the step in the also current AT thread. It depends on the individual, for me the RWD with AT is the perfect combination. The issue I took is with the propensity for people in snow regions to preach about the necessity of xdrive, while offering my own view of the same issue. You may review my original post and find it mostly concerns steering feel for street driving over outright pace. At this time you are free to note that transmission has nothing to do with the steering feel. If your intention is at the heart more concerned with the AT vs MT "debate" I urge you to post in the multitude of threads already concerning this.

Edit: A quick survey of the posts made shows that of the "many" you cite in your post, only me and 1 other (diesel driver where AT is the only option) publicly advertise transmission choice along with drive wheels choice. At this time, I am most curious of your definition of "many"

Last edited by BTM; 10-11-2010 at 11:29 PM.
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      10-12-2010, 01:51 AM   #29
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Track 335i Coupe 335 xi (E90)
Autozeitung test track 1:45.80 1:43.10

Here is one comparo. Note it was a 335xi sedan vs a 335i coupe. Winner sedan. I've been looking for the Hockenheim comparo too which also bares out these numbers as does the Motor Trend comparo. This debate reminds me of when I bought my e46M3 back in 2002. All the e36m3 drivers (which I had been before I bought the e46) complained about how slow it was and how they couldn't trust it at the track. Blah blah blah. Much like that car, take the 335xi to the track and it will go exactly where you tell it to. It will outaccelerate the 335 to 60 which is where most of our cars live both on the street and at the track. So yes, I take umbrage at people who imply that the 335xi is just for snow. It clearly has more to offer than that.
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      10-12-2010, 06:36 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by TheStigsTwin View Post
Track 335i Coupe 335 xi (E90)
Autozeitung test track 1:45.80 1:43.10

Here is one comparo. Note it was a 335xi sedan vs a 335i coupe. Winner sedan. I've been looking for the Hockenheim comparo too which also bares out these numbers as does the Motor Trend comparo. This debate reminds me of when I bought my e46M3 back in 2002. All the e36m3 drivers (which I had been before I bought the e46) complained about how slow it was and how they couldn't trust it at the track. Blah blah blah. Much like that car, take the 335xi to the track and it will go exactly where you tell it to. It will outaccelerate the 335 to 60 which is where most of our cars live both on the street and at the track. So yes, I take umbrage at people who imply that the 335xi is just for snow. It clearly has more to offer than that.
Where did u get those numbers ? Link ?
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      10-12-2010, 08:55 AM   #31
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Where did u get those numbers ? Link ?
http://www.fastestlaps.com/track24.html
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      10-12-2010, 08:56 AM   #32
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I got mine a stripper built just the way I like $45k OTD.[/quote]

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I don't think you need a 335xi in either Carolina's.

... Just go to BMW's website and spec out whatever you want. Then, go to Edmunds to figure the ball-park invoice.

Expect to pay at least $60k OTD for a true fully-loaded.

I got mine a stripper built just the way I like $45k OTD.
I have a 335xi on order with everything but Active Cruise for less than 3k (OTD) more than what you paid.. 60k would be absurd for anything besides maybe an E93.
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      10-12-2010, 09:02 AM   #33
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Without warping this argument into the "whose car is faster around the track in the hands of a professional driver with more skill than nearly all e90posters will ever have" there is not enough info in that link to really say anything definitively. Weather conditions aren't posted, tire selection isn't posted, even driver isn't posted (just the testing organization). From the looks of it, I can simply register for an account and add whatever lap time I feel like.

Edit: from the details of clicking on the 335xi, the lap time was submitted by "unknown" as was the lap time for the 335i coupe. Neither post weather conditions, tires, or driver
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      10-12-2010, 10:29 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by BTM View Post
Without warping this argument into the "whose car is faster around the track in the hands of a professional driver with more skill than nearly all e90posters will ever have" there is not enough info in that link to really say anything definitively. Weather conditions aren't posted, tire selection isn't posted, even driver isn't posted (just the testing organization). From the looks of it, I can simply register for an account and add whatever lap time I feel like.

Edit: from the details of clicking on the 335xi, the lap time was submitted by "unknown" as was the lap time for the 335i coupe. Neither post weather conditions, tires, or driver
True, but it still refutes the point that many are trying to make, namely that the 335xi is "unsettled and less predictable" ,that you will "abhore the steering feel" and that you are" sacrificing handling" etc etc. Lets assume the times are equal and Not better in favor of the xi sedan. It still proves the point that you don't sacrifice any performance with the xi's.
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      10-12-2010, 10:41 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by TheStigsTwin View Post
True, but it still refutes the point that many are trying to make, namely that the 335xi is "unsettled and less predictable" ,that you will "abhore the steering feel" and that you are" sacrificing handling" etc etc. Lets assume the times are equal and Not better in favor of the xi sedan. It still proves the point that you don't sacrifice any performance with the xi's.
That was merely my take on driving the x compared to the i. I abhorred the steering feel and the feedback I got from it, making it less predictable. This is the sacrifice in performance I was talking about - real world driving situations over outright pace on a race track. For a street car, I place higher value on how it performs on the street rather than some unconfirmed lap times of a track I will never drive on in a country I have never been to. There is no reason to assume the times are anything without proper citation of test conditions. Subsequently, it doesn't refute any of that because I was talking in regard to the subjective nuances of how I interpreted xdrive to perform.

I am doing nothing more than offering my opinion on both drive systems and the degree of their necessity in snowy conditions. I am not claiming one to be bar none "better" for everyone in every situation or one to be faster or slower, as this depends on much more than how many wheels are driven. Obviously a car's feel is a subjective and I will always urge prospective buyers to go drive all the options and make the decision for themselves. At the same time, when asked for an opinion, I will provide mine when I have one relevant to the topic.
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      10-12-2010, 10:55 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by TheStigsTwin View Post
True, but it still refutes the point that many are trying to make, namely that the 335xi is "unsettled and less predictable" ,that you will "abhore the steering feel" and that you are" sacrificing handling" etc etc. Lets assume the times are equal and Not better in favor of the xi sedan. It still proves the point that you don't sacrifice any performance with the xi's.
I don't really care which one is faster nor I have raced on both......but I would prefer to believe Car and Driver because they are sort of pros and did drive both.

Oh and the link is bs. Zero info and I think even I can add lap times....
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      10-12-2010, 11:49 AM   #37
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A lot of people say that you lose performance going from rear wheel drive (335i) to all wheel drive (335xi). I can tell you that probably 90% of BMW owners will never be able to extract the true potential of their 335i, let alone 335xi. How often do you see a BMW on the road going fast even around a street corner? :-)

If you use your car as a daily driver, you don't track your car, don't mind small penalty in gas mileage and the area you live in rains/snows/ice frequently, go for the 335xi.
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      10-12-2010, 12:03 PM   #38
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I've driven 335is around race tracks, and let me tell you the 335xi can hang right there with them. Steering is great, grip is phenomenal. Slightly heavier feeling.

But then a professional race car driver took me and 4 other guys around a track and beat my time by 5 seconds... in a car with 5 people and 1000 lbs heavier.

So it's really comical that pedestrian rwd fanbois are lauding how much better rwd is.
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      10-12-2010, 01:04 PM   #39
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I've driven 335is around race tracks, and let me tell you the 335xi can hang right there with them. Steering is great, grip is phenomenal. Slightly heavier feeling.

But then a professional race car driver took me and 4 other guys around a track and beat my time by 5 seconds... in a car with 5 people and 1000 lbs heavier.

So it's really comical that pedestrian rwd fanbois are lauding how much better rwd is.
I totally agree with you. The average person will never be able to extract the full potential of either RWD or AWD car.
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      10-12-2010, 01:12 PM   #40
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I totally agree with you. The average person will never be able to extract the full potential of either RWD or AWD car.
I agree with this as well. Which brings me back to my original response regarding noticeable differences in street driving. The most notable difference I experienced between the two drivetrains was that IMO the steering feel was more numb and provided less feedback in the xdrive than in RWD. I'm sure plenty of people either don't care or will find the steering in xdrive completely acceptable. As always, the only way for one to make the right decision for themselves is to drive both.
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      10-12-2010, 01:45 PM   #41
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I totally agree with you. The average person will never be able to extract the full potential of either RWD or AWD car.
True, but the average person will always extract the benefit of reduced initial cost, weight, fuel costs and extra reliability of the RWD car.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong w/ AWD - just ask yourself if it's really worth the extra cost. I live in snowy Canada, and have driven RWD 3ers as my only car, all year long for the past 7 years. (Winter tires during winter of course)
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      10-12-2010, 01:47 PM   #42
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Do you need to get up a hill or not in the winter?

Do you want to spend $3k up front, or not?

Those are the questions.

335xi with all seasons will do you adequately in the snow. 335i and winter tires will do you adequately in the snow.

If you need to drive in dangerous conditions - 335xi + Winter tires

If you are comfortable staying home in dangerous conditions 335i.

If you get XI with Sport or M-Sport you'll be buying winter tires/rims anyway, so total is +$6K


Enough with the i to xi pissing contests, much like the N54 to N55 pissing contests.

Simply stated, BMW literature says that 0-60 in Auto XI is the fastest 335 that isn't an IS. But honestly, who gives a shit? If you're using your car for motorsport, buy an M3, it's not that much more expensive and you'll get all of the other handling perks that the 335i and xi doesn't have.


My car is to satisfy my own comforts & goals in getting me safely to wherever I travel. You should be able to use your own deductions to do the same - because everyone here will have an opinion as to why their car is best.
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      10-12-2010, 02:01 PM   #43
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True, but the average person will always extract the benefit of reduced initial cost, weight, fuel costs and extra reliability of the RWD car.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong w/ AWD - just ask yourself if it's really worth the extra cost. I live in snowy Canada, and have driven RWD 3ers as my only car, all year long for the past 7 years. (Winter tires during winter of course)
I doubt the average person will care about the reduced weight. And BMW is running a cash credit for AWD currently. So that's not really an issue.

The average person will certainly extract benefit from AWD in a 300+hp car with an open differential. Especially as you can run all-seasons on an xi just fine in the winter (I've done it)..
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      10-12-2010, 02:38 PM   #44
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I doubt the average person will care about the reduced weight. And BMW is running a cash credit for AWD currently. So that's not really an issue.

The average person will certainly extract benefit from AWD in a 300+hp car with an open differential. Especially as you can run all-seasons on an xi just fine in the winter (I've done it)..
Reduced weight = shorter braking distances in all conditions (law of inertia) = daily benefit to average person.
(And of course, lower fuel costs but that was already mentioned.)

But then if you're going to run all-seasons in winter, then minimum stopping distance is probably not a concern of yours.
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