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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > All-Wheel-Drive (Xi / xDrive) Talk > Pulled my front drive shaft. Easy, no codes and RWD!



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      07-22-2014, 01:01 PM   #1
stashtrey
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Pulled my front drive shaft. Easy, no codes and RWD!

The other RWD threads are huge and almost entirely focused on pulling fuse and seeking option to go RWD on the fly. Figured I'd start a conversation solely on thos method of achieving RWD.

I'm impressed so far. Like the pioneers on the other thread...
8 10mm bolts and pull/replace the under tray...done. Fraction control 100% off (by choice) and I can lay rubber through 3rd (MS mode).

Worth trying!

Will be seeking a dyno soon!
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      07-22-2014, 02:21 PM   #2
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How long did this take?
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      07-22-2014, 02:47 PM   #3
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If your auto trans, then you might as well change your atf fluid now since you have to lower the front drive shaft anyway to reach the fill plug.
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      07-22-2014, 02:56 PM   #4
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You've got some big cojones compadre. Wish mine were large enough to do this
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      07-22-2014, 03:35 PM   #5
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Wouldn't that wear out the transfer case? It will be trying to send power forward which would reduce the power output to the rear and wear out the clutch in the TC I would think.
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Last edited by jwzimm; 07-22-2014 at 04:50 PM.
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      07-22-2014, 04:35 PM   #6
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It took me 20 minutes. Just need a 10mm female torx socket and a couple wobble extensions. I used an impact which means you don't have to hold the shaft or have someone brake.

I did my tranny earlier this year but I the thought came to my mind.

One guy on here has run like this for over 6k miles with zero issues. Another recently for 1000 km. I believe there are 3-4 not counting myself that appear to have done this.

Consensus from the other threads is that there are no blatant issues to be concerned about.

My front differential output disc (guibo?) That the prop shaft hooks up to is loose when you turn it. I've had a rattling, spinning type noise ice been trying to isolate and fix. So when I pulled the shaft last night I immediately knew what I was hearing. Already replaced both front wheel bearings. CV axles are like new. So this was a good project and I'm fairly certain I have it solved. Now just need to pray it is the piece that goes into the differential and not the gears inside. Need to research this. Took video and pics...will post them to my OP when I can get some time.

Power is plenty. No lights, codes etc. Just raw power and ability to roast em! As another poster mentioned....my steering feels much better.
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      07-22-2014, 04:56 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwzimm View Post
Wouldn't that wear out the transfer case? It will be trying to send power forward which would reduce the power output to the rear and wear out the clutch in the TC I would think.
.

The tcase can still spin the front output ...it is still free and sealed up. I will find a great post someone made about this experiment and the tcase.
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      07-23-2014, 09:02 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stashtrey View Post
....my steering feels much better.
if only BM had bothered with a proper steering setup for their xDrive. or with proper suspension setup for their xDrive.
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      07-23-2014, 09:25 AM   #9
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these threads never cease to amaze me... why do you have the heavier awd version of a car and do everything in your power to remove it. is it just for the need to burn rubber? cause you arent minimizing hp loss to the wheels...

one of the few reasons i dont visit the AWD section too often hah
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      07-23-2014, 10:05 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermayhm View Post
these threads never cease to amaze me... why do you have the heavier awd version of a car and do everything in your power to remove it. is it just for the need to burn rubber? cause you arent minimizing hp loss to the wheels...

one of the few reasons i dont visit the AWD section too often hah
Most of us got AWD for the all weather traction not because we prefer the driving dynamics or fair weather performance. It takes longer to swap to my winter wheel/tire combo than it does to pull the shaft so why wouldn't I do it for the season? RWD in the summer and AWD in the winter with so little effort required sounds pretty good to me.

As far as drivetrain losses go... yes you will not be getting as much power to the ground as a native RWD car but it will be more than you were as AWD.
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      07-23-2014, 10:17 AM   #11
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^From my experience, AWD will not help you outside of starting from a stand still. Every other situation you face in wintertime snow driving will require a good set of winter tires to have the traction you are seeking.

I've been lowered and used winter tires for about 3 years now (i have rwd), and never intend to run a winter without them ever again. The car was utterly useless in winter on all-seasons.

I have people asking me if I have xDrive all the time in winter because the winter tires make it look easy, even compared to an equivalent awd car on all-seasons.
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      07-23-2014, 11:34 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUI Elite View Post
^From my experience, AWD will not help you outside of starting from a stand still. Every other situation you face in wintertime snow driving will require a good set of winter tires to have the traction you are seeking.

I've been lowered and used winter tires for about 3 years now (i have rwd), and never intend to run a winter without them ever again. The car was utterly useless in winter on all-seasons.

I have people asking me if I have xDrive all the time in winter because the winter tires make it look easy, even compared to an equivalent awd car on all-seasons.
Since you do not have xDrive I would question your experience. One thing you seem to gloss over is the idea of engine braking in AWD vs RWD. With low traction situations it is far more preferable to use the dynamic braking available from the engine rather than the static braking available from the brakes. In AWD each wheel is provided this dynamic braking whereas with RWD only the rears get it.

That said I do agree that proper shoes make all the difference. You can have the best AWD system in the world and if you put summer tires on you will still end up in a hedge. I am able to run a good high performance all season tire on my car and enjoy the best of both worlds.

In any case, a software solution to this is far more preferable IMHO. The T-case in these cars is perfect for going to 100% RWD if only we could tell the control modules that is what is desired rather than letting it decide for us.
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      07-23-2014, 11:57 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermayhm View Post
these threads never cease to amaze me... why do you have the heavier awd version of a car and do everything in your power to remove it. is it just for the need to burn rubber? cause you arent minimizing hp loss to the wheels...

one of the few reasons i dont visit the AWD section too often hah
I did this to track down a noise in my front end. Changed my bearings, inspected CV axles and I came across the drive shaft thing and it seemed like a great way to further investigate the noise. Low and behold....I have finally found the source of the noise. So...it was not just foe fun. I like AWD.

Why do you care enough to post a big reply and hate on people experimenting? Do you do the same for people that code? Alpina flash? Its progress, bro.
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      07-23-2014, 12:57 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by DUI Elite View Post
^From my experience, AWD will not help you outside of starting from a stand still. Every other situation you face in wintertime snow driving will require a good set of winter tires to have the traction you are seeking.
I've never understood this argument. Although AWD does not help with turning, it does helps when accelerating (not just from a stand still.) Last time I drove I had to accelerate....a lot. From stoplights, from stop signs, making a right/left hand turn onto a different road and then getting up to speed, changes with the flow in traffic, etc. I also like to have the ability to accelerate quickly when another car that does not have winter tires is sliding through an intersection directly at me.

If you can set off and put your cruise control on for your entire trip and not touch it until you reach your destination, then yes, AWD isn't going to help outside of the initial acceleration. Personally I never have that type of commute.

Back on topic - OP I'm excited to see the pics and video!
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      07-23-2014, 01:42 PM   #15
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I'm not pounding my chest here but I've owned numerous RWD cars (23 in total) in addition to eight AWD vehicles, so I wholeheartedly think AWD cars blow away RWD in snowy climates. Not really an argument...Anyway, this doesn't mean an AWD car drives as nice as a RWD vehicle, in my humble opinion they don't. That said, I'm intrugued by the idea of disconnecting the front drive shaft but wonder (like some of you) if this action will ultimately cause TC failures? Any BMW techs here who wish to chime in?
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      07-23-2014, 02:13 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stashtrey View Post
I did this to track down a noise in my front end. Changed my bearings, inspected CV axles and I came across the drive shaft thing and it seemed like a great way to further investigate the noise. Low and behold....I have finally found the source of the noise. So...it was not just foe fun. I like AWD.

Why do you care enough to post a big reply and hate on people experimenting? Do you do the same for people that code? Alpina flash? Its progress, bro.
not hating, i just dont see the point and i am looking for someone to enlighten me...you, my friend, have a unique case.

at this point i still find it virtually worthless for everyone else.

yes i do the same for people that alpina flash bc auto trans < 6MT

progress towards what?


Quote:
Originally Posted by zipstic View Post
I've never understood this argument. Although AWD does not help with turning, it does helps when accelerating (not just from a stand still.) Last time I drove I had to accelerate....a lot. From stoplights, from stop signs, making a right/left hand turn onto a different road and then getting up to speed, changes with the flow in traffic, etc. I also like to have the ability to accelerate quickly when another car that does not have winter tires is sliding through an intersection directly at me.

If you can set off and put your cruise control on for your entire trip and not touch it until you reach your destination, then yes, AWD isn't going to help outside of the initial acceleration. Personally I never have that type of commute.

Back on topic - OP I'm excited to see the pics and video!
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      07-23-2014, 02:19 PM   #17
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My limited knowledge leads me to believe the tc would potentially last longer as there would be not as much of a load stressing it and as well as saving cv from wear also.
Any engineers want to chime in?
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      07-23-2014, 02:46 PM   #18
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Should've taken the rest of the bolts off when I was having my CDV done. Would've loved to try this.
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      07-23-2014, 02:46 PM   #19
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I know that the TC works via a servo motor that actuates a clutch to send power forward. In that case it would not reduce power going aft (I was wrong in that). What would worry me more is that during periods of high differential in wheel speed in each axle (doing burnouts or oversteer) the servomotor will be working like crazy trying (vainly) to transfer power to the front wheels. Since this motor is the part of the TC that is the weak point and goes bad I wouldn't want to stress it more.

Plus, the DSC is programmed to assume it gets traction from the front wheels. Since it does not I would expect its reactions in slip situations to be wrong, potentially leading to a loss of control of the car.
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      07-23-2014, 03:42 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwzimm View Post
I know that the TC works via a servo motor that actuates a clutch to send power forward. In that case it would not reduce power going aft (I was wrong in that). What would worry me more is that during periods of high differential in wheel speed in each axle (doing burnouts or oversteer) the servomotor will be working like crazy trying (vainly) to transfer power to the front wheels. Since this motor is the part of the TC that is the weak point and goes bad I wouldn't want to stress it more.

Plus, the DSC is programmed to assume it gets traction from the front wheels. Since it does not I would expect its reactions in slip situations to be wrong, potentially leading to a loss of control of the car.
I have fully disabled DSC/DTC each time I've driven it. Definitely doesn't accelerate like before!

Hopefully my front shaft mount (not sure what the name is...is the piece that comes out the rear of the front diff which you attach the drive shaft to) is worn and not the inner gear of the differential.

Anyone have experience with this part of the front differential?
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      07-24-2014, 07:12 PM   #21
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      07-27-2014, 11:43 AM   #22
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so now you have no axle going through wheel bearing? really? love to see whst happens in a few months. im subscribed to this rediculousness. in all seriousness. very dangerous. I could see maybe if u swapped to a rwd spindle/bearing but the awd bearing needs an axle going through it or it will come apart. its only a matter of tim
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