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      10-26-2010, 10:58 AM   #1
UltimateBMW
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Berger says Webber tried to take out Rivals

Thinking back, he makes a good point.

http://www.motorsport.com/news/artic...D=392407&FS=F1
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Gerhard Berger has accused Mark Webber of wanting to take out a championship rival after crashing in Sunday's Korean Grand Prix.

Australian Webber, who at the time was leading the world championship by 14 points, spun on a wet kerb whilst running second at Yeongam and struck the wall.

But his Red Bull then rolled back across the circuit, collecting the Mercedes of Nico Rosberg.

"I don't understand why Webber didn't hit the brakes," said Rosberg. "It was crazy to roll back across the track like that."

Former Grand Prix winner Berger said on Monday: "He could have hit the brakes and stopped the car at the wall.

"He took out Rosberg, but it was the wrong one. I think in his mind he would have preferred Alonso or Hamilton," the former Ferrari and McLaren driver told Austrian Servus TV.

Asked to clarify whether he thinks Webber's move was deliberate, Berger - a former co-owner of the second Red Bull team Toro Rosso - added: "Yes, I think that's very clear.

"He goes off and he knows it's over. In this moment you're frustrated and a thousand thoughts go through your head.

"It's very obvious, you can see his wheels are not locked up. Perhaps he had a brake problem, but I don't think so."
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      10-26-2010, 11:04 AM   #2
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nonsense
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      10-26-2010, 11:06 AM   #3
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I find that very hard to believe.
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      10-26-2010, 11:07 AM   #4
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Um no... MAYBE a driver would do it in a controlled situation when going through a corner, but in that situation he had little to no control, no one in their right mind would risk their life like that just to maybe take someone out.

Also Nico went the wrong way, you always drive where the car is not where it's going, cuz when you get there it will be gone.

Finally given the choice between on course and off course, I would choose to be beached of course too, trusting the other drivers to drive around.
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      10-26-2010, 11:14 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
Um no... MAYBE a driver would do it in a controlled situation when going through a corner, but in that situation he had little to no control, no one in their right mind would risk their life like that just to maybe take someone out.

Also Nico went the wrong way, you always drive where the car is not where it's going, cuz when you get there it will be gone.

Finally given the choice between on course and off course, I would choose to be beached of course too, trusting the other drivers to drive around.
But crossing the entire track to get there? I think being on the outer side of the corner would have been safer. And he certainly would not have picked up any other cars, including Rosberg.

Granted Rosberg did try to pass on the wrong side, but If I recall correctly, Webbers car was pretty much in the middle of the road as Rosberg approached. The angle of attack for Rosberg to pass would have been decently extreme at that point.

Also, surely watching yourself slide backwards across the track wasn't Webber's idea of safe. So if safety was his concern, What he did probably wasn't the best option either.

With regard to the quote, I'll agree it is stretched though. Just thought I'd post it and get other's opinions. However, Judging by how much Webber wants this WDC(with 1 year before his self projected retirement) I wouldn't put it past him. One thing I'll give him is he is fearless when it comes to possible contact with other cars.
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      10-26-2010, 11:25 AM   #6
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Sounds like something I would do in F1-2010 game...

but then I'll be a penalty immediately by the stewards...they're the fastest deciding stewards i've ever seen!!!

Webber...to do this....possible...but I don't think so...only Schumi would do that....
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      10-26-2010, 11:57 AM   #7
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complete utter nonsense... webber knows the proper way to take out a championship rival, like he did in singapore.
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      10-26-2010, 12:03 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
Um no... MAYBE a driver would do it in a controlled situation when going through a corner, but in that situation he had little to no control, no one in their right mind would risk their life like that just to maybe take someone out.

Also Nico went the wrong way, you always drive where the car is not where it's going, cuz when you get there it will be gone.
In all fairness to Nico, why would he expect a crashed car to cross the entire track? He drove off the racing line to avoid the car/debris and once Webber was rolling back it was too late.



When you watch this view you can see at about :13 that Webber's right front was well off the ground since his rear left suspension was broken. He didn't have full control.

I haven't formed an opinion on Webber though. On one hand, given the way he is on track when he is getting passed, I would not put it passed him. On the other hand, it doesn't look like he has full control. Whether he could've held on to the brakes and kept the car against the wall we'll never know.
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      10-26-2010, 12:27 PM   #9
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i also think its possible but i dont think he had control either. Berger as a former driver might know more than us but its an interesting theory though

on the other hand, Nico had zero blame for this. He sees the crash and expects for Webber to stay by the wall, so he moves out, then he see's webbers car still moving and doesnt have time, so he tries to go off track to avoid but it was too late
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      10-26-2010, 12:43 PM   #10
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Schumacher would do and has done that before. He took out Damon Hill after he crashed at Adelaide and won the '94 championship because of it. He tried to take out Villeneuve as well, but missed.

But I don't think Webber did that intentionally. That all happened too fast.
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      10-26-2010, 03:27 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Six View Post
Schumacher would do and has done that before. He took out Damon Hill after he crashed at Adelaide and won the '94 championship because of it. He tried to take out Villeneuve as well, but missed.

But I don't think Webber did that intentionally. That all happened too fast.
Schumacher hadn't wrecked his car though. It was working 100% and he attempted to ram Hill and Villeneuve off the track to secure his championships. It worked in '94 and in '97 he ended up destroying his own car from the impact while Jacques went on to win the WDC.
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      10-26-2010, 03:37 PM   #12
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I don't doubt it one bit, but we'll probably never know the truth. Rosberg, unlike Alonso, couldn't have avoided the crash; he was precisely at the wrong place at the wrong time. What a shame, as he was kicking ass.
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      10-26-2010, 06:06 PM   #13
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I considered this when I saw it, but seeing one of his front wheels in the air made me think otherwise.

And Im pretty sure though it seemed like milliseconds to us, to Webber, the second the car stepped out of line and he was along for the ride, it must have taken an hour in his mind.
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      10-26-2010, 07:22 PM   #14
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When I saw this quote today online I thought it was ridiculous. His supsension broke and his foot might have slipped off the pedal from the impact with the wall, IMO. I don't think he did anything intentional at all that would make no sense especially since he was AHEAD of Hamilton and Alonso already.
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      10-26-2010, 07:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious View Post
complete utter nonsense... webber knows the proper way to take out a championship rival, like he did in singapore.
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      10-26-2010, 07:59 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by escobar929 View Post
i
on the other hand, Nico had zero blame for this. He sees the crash and expects for Webber to stay by the wall, so he moves out, then he see's webbers car still moving and doesnt have time, so he tries to go off track to avoid but it was too late

I wouldn't blame him, but he did do the wrong thing. You're not supposed to drive around a car in the direction it's traveling, because.... you always end up hitting it instead.

If you watch the video if he went right instead of left the would have avoided it, hindsight is 20-20 but in that situation that's what you're SUPPOSED to do, so its not a hindsight thing.
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      10-26-2010, 09:12 PM   #17
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Berger is a historical failure, why listen to him? He is just diverting attention from Nico's failure to avoid Webber.
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      10-26-2010, 09:24 PM   #18
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It may not be a popular opinion, but I kind of agree with Berger.

When I watched the race the first thing I thought when Webber rolled across
the track was that it was intentional. With as much experience as Weber has
to forget to lock up and roll across the track seems unlikely. This was why
Nico choose to pass the incident on the side that he did.

I'd love to see the brake data out of Webber's car.
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      10-26-2010, 09:47 PM   #19
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Seriously, no one in their right mind purposefully rolls sideways across a track with cars going 100mph that are going to slam into the side of you.
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      10-26-2010, 09:55 PM   #20
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If brakes were full or not, what would happen? Momentum would still ricochet the car in the same direction. And it's wet, on plank, with wheel in the air. How effective are the brakes any way? This is ridiculous.
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      10-26-2010, 11:00 PM   #21
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Quote:
Seriously, no one in their right mind purposefully rolls sideways across a track with cars going 100mph that are going to slam into the side of you.
Just consider for one moment, you are leading the championship with 3 races
to go and you made what might be decisive mistake that could cost you the
championship. (and this might be your last shot at ever doing so) You might
at least consider taking out a rival.

Quote:
If brakes were full or not, what would happen? Momentum would still ricochet the car in the same direction. And it's wet, on plank, with wheel in the air. How effective are the brakes any way? This is ridiculous.
The difference between locking up and free wheeling is that when you lock
up, the car will travel in the direction of momentum. When a car rolls, the
car will travel in the direction of the rotating tire, which could be in a
drastically different path. This is why most ABS systems can be dangerous
on the race track, if you spin / loose control and apply the brakes the cars
path is unknown. The ABS will decrease brake pressues and cause the
car to change direction as the tires gain and loose traction throughout the
spin. If you are able to lock up the car will travel in same direction as the
car was traveling prior to lock up.

This is only my opinion on this incident. I may be way off and I'm OK
with that.
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      10-27-2010, 04:32 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Six View Post
But I don't think Webber did that intentionally. That all happened too fast.
Happened too fast? Hes an F1 driver!

Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
I wouldn't blame him, but he did do the wrong thing. You're not supposed to drive around a car in the direction it's traveling, because.... you always end up hitting it instead.
This may be true BUT Nico never expected Mark to come back across the track, generally at this level of racing guys are smart enough to lock the brakes after they crash because they know it makes their path more predictable for other drivers.
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