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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > BMW Announces Voluntary N54 Engine (HPFP) and X5 Recall



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      01-24-2011, 09:45 AM   #463
ragingclue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Potty_Pants View Post
Well my car is going back to the shop.

a few days after the injector, pump and whatever else they did...

my first start in the morning (temp around 25-30) the engine would rev from 800-1500-800-1500-800-1500... until i shut the car down. The 2nd start it ran fine w/o any problems.

Now two weeks later Temp is around 18 (garage kept) and it did it for 4 starts , I tried to give additional gas and the gas pedal didnt provide any additional gas to the engine. The 5th try i immediately gave the car gas to 2k and the 800-1500-800-1500 stopped. however the check engine light was on in the dash.

guess its going back

ppp
Yeah that intermittent rev fluctuation on startup was present in multiple HPFP failures for me, except it would go up to 2.4k and down to 300-400. Then, it would start up next time without a hiccup. Could be other causes for it, but it sounds like fueling issues for sure. GL with that.
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      01-24-2011, 09:54 AM   #464
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Yeah that intermittent rev fluctuation on startup was present in multiple HPFP failures for me, except it would go up to 2.4k and down to 300-400. Then, it would start up next time without a hiccup. Could be other causes for it, but it sounds like fueling issues for sure. GL with that.
lol well they did replace the HPFP.... so if it's the HPFP guess it's still not fixed

If its something else we'll see what it is, appt is Feb 3rd. will update when completed

take care

ppp
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      01-24-2011, 07:35 PM   #465
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My car was having long crank issues as well and I took it in for service last week. They said my car didn't qualify for a HPFP replacement but that they reprogrammed my Engine Control Unit (ECU). This seems to have fixed the problem (for now) but I was wondering if this still means I should have the warranty on my HPFP extended to 120,000 miles.

Anyone knowthe answer to this? Thanks.
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      01-25-2011, 01:06 PM   #466
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      01-27-2011, 08:15 AM   #467
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links for the recall are down....hopefully someone saved them and posts up some PDF's
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      01-27-2011, 08:13 PM   #468
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I just had the programming recall performed (SIB 130910) on my 2007 335 XI E90. Unfortunately, the performance has suffered considerably based on my butt dyno. Whereas acceleration following toe-in used to be instantaneous, I've got noticeable turbo lag now and the performance in general also seems muted. After doing some searches, similar issues have come up and it seems that a wastegate conversion should help given my build date. I'll definitely bring that up to my SA when I bring the car back in a few days. Any other advice on how to remedy?? Thanks for any help you can offer guys/gals.
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      01-28-2011, 07:17 AM   #469
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Quote:
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I just had the programming recall performed (SIB 130910) on my 2007 335 XI E90. Unfortunately, the performance has suffered considerably based on my butt dyno. Whereas acceleration following toe-in used to be instantaneous, I've got noticeable turbo lag now and the performance in general also seems muted. After doing some searches, similar issues have come up and it seems that a wastegate conversion should help given my build date. I'll definitely bring that up to my SA when I bring the car back in a few days. Any other advice on how to remedy?? Thanks for any help you can offer guys/gals.
hate to say it but "working as designed" , "no error codes nothing we can do"

this is the problem gas mileage goes down, lag, performance goes down... bmw "we have a shitty pump , lets reduce the workload and dumb it down"

ppp
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      01-28-2011, 08:48 AM   #470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Potty_Pants View Post
hate to say it but "working as designed" , "no error codes nothing we can do"

this is the problem gas mileage goes down, lag, performance goes down... bmw "we have a shitty pump , lets reduce the workload and dumb it down"ppp
There it is in a nutshell!
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      01-28-2011, 02:51 PM   #471
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For what it's worth, my car feels no different, and if you read my post on the previous page, I got the "full work-up" for my recall--new pump, latest software, etc.

-The Ringer
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      01-29-2011, 12:21 AM   #472
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Not sure what BMW will have to do to solve this one but in 7 days I will have all new problems. Getting an M6, delivered next friday. Cant wait to see what surprises that brings.
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      01-29-2011, 12:46 AM   #473
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Not sure what BMW will have to do to solve this one but in 7 days I will have all new problems. Getting an M6, delivered next friday. Cant wait to see what surprises that brings.
Congrats!

Good luck, have fun, stay safe (lots of long straight roads out there...)

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      01-29-2011, 09:28 AM   #474
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I know that someone has probably brought this up in the 23 pages of comments about the HPFP problem, but here goes. Engineering the correct pump for a specific task can be challenging, but isn't impossible. I've dealt with pump selection for high pressure applications, chemical processing, sludge, and any number of other hard to solve problems. It's all about selecting the right materials for what is being pumped, motor horsepower, robust construction, and pump curve. I'm sure that BMW buys these pumps from a supplier such as Bosch, who has decades of experience in all types of fuel pump applications. I'm also sure that BMW gave them cost parameters for this pump - in other words, they're only willing to pay so much for each one.

This is called value engineering, which is one of the reasons that US-made cars sucked for so many years. Manufacturers would save $100 on the cost of each transmission for say, a Taurus, times 400,000 cars a year. Do this over several hundred parts and pretty soon you've increased the profit margin on each car by quite a bit. Each one of these transmissions lasted about 100k miles max, costing customers thousands for each car. Ford and others got burned by doing this and are gradually getting better at realizing what not to cheap out on.

It's that simple - BMW took a cost risk by specifying a relatively cheap fuel pump and lost the gamble. Now, they're paying for those savings several times over. What puzzles me is that they haven't told Bosch or whomever to come up with a bullet-proof pump no matter what the cost to stop the PR nightmare. There's no telling how many customers they've lost due to this miscalculation.

In spite of all this, I drove one for the first time about a month ago fell for it. I'm in the market for a good used 335i, as I have faith that BMW will finally wise up and open their piggy bank a little wider to solve the problem.
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      01-29-2011, 01:42 PM   #475
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Pumps fail for specific reasons, such as poor material selection, lack of cooling, cavitation, and so forth. If another component is causing the problem - such as varying fuel pressure caused by the injector delivery to the engine, for instance - of course an improved injector design would help mitigate the HPFP problem.

Meanwhile, if BMW can't figure it out, why not make the fuel pump robust enough to withstand 100k+ miles of intermittent cavitation, improper cooling, or whatever is the mode of failure. Once the root cause is determined, it would be a belt and suspenders approach, but the complaints and warranty repairs would be greatly reduced in the short term.
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      01-29-2011, 03:47 PM   #476
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Hope?

I keep running across things like this that give me some hope:

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/11/18/b...date-software/

Car's in on Monday; we'll see what I get...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Potty_Pants View Post
hate to say it but "working as designed" , "no error codes nothing we can do"

this is the problem gas mileage goes down, lag, performance goes down... bmw "we have a shitty pump , lets reduce the workload and dumb it down"

ppp
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      01-29-2011, 04:17 PM   #477
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Thumbs down Recall Experience

2009IX (sept 08 build) recall replaced injectors, pump and reprogramed. 2 previous pump failures and one injector failure prior. Seems like the reprograming mucked up the CIC computer functionality, lost Sirus radio completely, can't pair cell phones at all---Nice, another gift from the Woodcliff Lakes Knomes. Nes Pa?
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      01-29-2011, 11:40 PM   #478
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BMW customers have been asking why BMW hasn't fixed the problem for five years...
Okay, so BMW is a little dense
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      01-30-2011, 08:36 AM   #479
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Okay, what kind of pump is the HPFP? Is it a centrifugal? Positive displacement? Other? Also, what materials is it made from? Has anyone determined what components of the pump are wearing?
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      01-30-2011, 01:55 PM   #480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronMG View Post
I keep running across things like this that give me some hope:

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/11/18/b...date-software/

Car's in on Monday; we'll see what I get...
That was from November 2008 - something like that, rather than giving me hope, makes me appalled. This is the year 2011.
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      01-30-2011, 03:06 PM   #481
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Of course it's absurd that 3 years later the HPFP problem persists. I'm not dealing with a failed pump (yet); I'm trying to get full performance restored to my car after the latest SW update introduced considerable turbo lag and lower boost. That site, and other forum members' experiences, suggests I may not be completely SOL.

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That was from November 2008 - something like that, rather than giving me hope, makes me appalled. This is the year 2011.
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      01-30-2011, 05:48 PM   #482
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I was having some HPFP issues (specifically a long crank) 2 weeks ago and I took my car in for service. They said my build date (Oct. 2008 build of 2009 335i) doesn't qualify for a HPFP replacement so they just reprogrammed the car. Today, less than a week after I got the car back, the long crank is back (although not as bad as before) and my car has practically no power. When I press the accelerator all the way (floor it), the car barely picks up and definitely doesn't downshift. Even when I manually downshift, the power simply isn't there.

Is this what people are referring to as "limp mode"? Have others had a similar symptom on their N54s? My dealer is closed today but I plan to take it in tomorrow. Just want to be as prepared as possible since, in their minds, they've "fixed" the issue already.

Thanks!!
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      01-31-2011, 01:03 AM   #483
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What is most absurd is that BMW knows the problems exist and they have no real fix for it, yet they are selling cars with this engine and not alerting buyers(other than the fact that the pump has an extended warranty on it).
Knowingly selling a car with a faulty engine and no soultion for the problem other than keep replacing the faulty part with the same part. How is that considered acceptable by any business or ethical standards? If I told someone that was buying my car that it has engine problems that may or may not keep coming back and if they do you may end up losing power without warning while driving on the highway, but dont worry, just bring the car back to me and I will switch out the bad part with either a remanufactured part that is the same as the one coming out or a new part that is the same as the one coming out, what would thier reaction be? So instead I will tell them that not only is it a great car, but i am going to do something extra nice for you and extend the warranty on the part, am I a great guy or what. Now it looks like I am doing the buyer a favor because they may not know the real reason the warranty was extended, just that it was and thats a good thing. I came out of a pile of shi*t and I smell like a rose.
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      02-01-2011, 01:49 PM   #484
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Why would the xi model 335 be left of the list?

Last edited by mixxer; 02-01-2011 at 03:23 PM.
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