E90Post
 


TireRack
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > 335i power loss from carbon buildup, clean out not covered under warranty?



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-26-2010, 09:45 PM   #1
warpwoof
New Member
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: US

Posts: 6
iTrader: (0)

Question 335i power loss from carbon buildup, clean out not covered under warranty?

Hey guys, long-time lurker, but I made an account because I need a little help.

My 335i doesn't have the type of power down low that it should. It feels like turbo-lag and I thought it was a software issue. Today I got it checked out at a dealership, and they said they suspect it's carbon buildup on the intake valves.

They said they can clean it out using a process involving blasting walnut pieces/dust at it. Apparently this is not covered under warranty and will run about $700. I decided to research this before giving them the go-ahead.

I called a few other dealerships, one said they do this every now and then and use a liquid/chemical process that will run me about $350. Another was shocked and said of course it's covered under warranty. Another had no clue what I was talking about.

Has any run into this issue? Was it covered under factory warranty? If not, how much should I pay to get this fixed?

Any help greatly appreciated.
warpwoof is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-26-2010, 09:52 PM   #2
ragingclue
One cam is enough
 
ragingclue's Avatar
 
Drives: VF
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: mulletville

Posts: 6,774
iTrader: (1)

Welcome to DI.

Do a seafoam treatment. You can search for it in the Turbo subforum I believe.
ragingclue is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-26-2010, 09:54 PM   #3
timmahh
ghey
 
timmahh's Avatar
 
Drives: Viertürigen Fahrzeugs
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Southern California

Posts: 1,111
iTrader: (0)

Lexus has a TSB out for their DI engines for this exact issue; something along the lines of DI being so precise and efficient that not everything burns out of the cylinder and causes carbon buildup.


Two steps forward one step back?
__________________

The females confuse me.
timmahh is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-26-2010, 10:01 PM   #4
BTM
Banned
 
Drives: A///MERICAN!!!
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: A///MERICA!!!

Posts: 10,314
iTrader: (11)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmahh View Post
Lexus has a TSB out for their DI engines for this exact issue; something along the lines of DI being so precise and efficient that not everything burns out of the cylinder and causes carbon buildup.


Two steps forward one step back?
LOL

"nope, not a problem, that just means it's working too well"
BTM is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-26-2010, 10:17 PM   #5
warpwoof
New Member
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: US

Posts: 6
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ragingclue View Post
Welcome to DI.

Do a seafoam treatment. You can search for it in the Turbo subforum I believe.
Thanks for the tip. I had heard about that. It seemed more like a preventative measure...I'm wondering if it's too far gone at this point as it's approaching 50K miles.
warpwoof is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-26-2010, 10:25 PM   #6
Transport3r
Maaaaaaaaaaaaaad
 
Transport3r's Avatar
 
Drives: N54 E92 & N52 Z4
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Melbourne, FL

Posts: 1,204
iTrader: (2)

I just did a seafoam treatment at 45000 miles.
A metric shitton of crap came out the exhaust and i would dare say i gained enough power that it was noticeable on the buttdyno.

Do it!
__________________
Josh-

Transport3r is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-26-2010, 10:31 PM   #7
WWONG
Banned
 
Drives: 2012 BMW X5 xDrive35d
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Houston, TX

Posts: 1,833
iTrader: (14)

Quote:
Originally Posted by timmahh View Post
Lexus has a TSB out for their DI engines for this exact issue; something along the lines of DI being so precise and efficient that not everything burns out of the cylinder and causes carbon buildup.


Two steps forward one step back?
The surprise isn't what Lexus said. The surprise is that Lexus even uses turbos. WHAT?
WWONG is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-26-2010, 10:31 PM   #8
CrimsonIvy35i
Captain
 
Drives: X6 M
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Central America

Posts: 679
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuo View Post
I just did a seafoam treatment at 45000 miles.
A metric shitton of crap came out the exhaust and i would dare say i gained enough power that it was noticeable on the buttdyno.

Do it!
What do you mean it came out of the exhaust, can you elaborate on the procedure? What did you have done?
CrimsonIvy35i is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-26-2010, 10:33 PM   #9
ragingclue
One cam is enough
 
ragingclue's Avatar
 
Drives: VF
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: mulletville

Posts: 6,774
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by WWONG View Post
The surprise isn't what Lexus said. The surprise is that Lexus even uses turbos. WHAT?
What?
ragingclue is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-26-2010, 10:38 PM   #10
warpwoof
New Member
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: US

Posts: 6
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonIvy35i View Post
What do you mean it came out of the exhaust, can you elaborate on the procedure? What did you have done?
It looks like this:

warpwoof is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-26-2010, 10:40 PM   #11
Transport3r
Maaaaaaaaaaaaaad
 
Transport3r's Avatar
 
Drives: N54 E92 & N52 Z4
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Melbourne, FL

Posts: 1,204
iTrader: (2)

'Seafoam' is a solvent that you have sucked into the intake manifold through the DV vacuum line. This solvent will coat the inside your engine (including valves) and break down a significant amount of the carbon buildup on them. The carbon buildup then gets expelled out of the car through the exhaust system.

On a DI turbo engine, i'd say this wouldn't be a bad idea to do every 10K.
Make sure that shortly after you do this (<300miles) you change the oil, cause a tiny bit of it will get in your sump and it will lower the viscosity of the oil. My car actually prompted a change after driving about 25 miles the next day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonIvy35i View Post
What do you mean it came out of the exhaust, can you elaborate on the procedure? What did you have done?
__________________
Josh-

Transport3r is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-26-2010, 10:59 PM   #12
CrimsonIvy35i
Captain
 
Drives: X6 M
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Central America

Posts: 679
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuo View Post
'Seafoam' is a solvent that you have sucked into the intake manifold through the DV vacuum line. This solvent will coat the inside your engine (including valves) and break down a significant amount of the carbon buildup on them. The carbon buildup then gets expelled out of the car through the exhaust system.

On a DI turbo engine, i'd say this wouldn't be a bad idea to do every 10K.
Make sure that shortly after you do this (<300miles) you change the oil, cause a tiny bit of it will get in your sump and it will lower the viscosity of the oil. My car actually prompted a change after driving about 25 miles the next day.
So, in order to do this you need to have it taken to the dealership, or you can do it yourself?
CrimsonIvy35i is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-26-2010, 11:27 PM   #13
Transport3r
Maaaaaaaaaaaaaad
 
Transport3r's Avatar
 
Drives: N54 E92 & N52 Z4
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Melbourne, FL

Posts: 1,204
iTrader: (2)

the dealer will probably charge hundreds to do it, if they will at all.
If you're a bit mechanically inclined, and have an extra pair of feet at the pedals to keep the engine from stalling, you can do it in less than 1hour. The hardest part is getting the vacuum line off, but if you put a 2mm slit in the end of it, it'll pop right off.

Here's the original thread on how to do it:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...hlight=seafoam
__________________
Josh-

Transport3r is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-26-2010, 11:59 PM   #14
CrimsonIvy35i
Captain
 
Drives: X6 M
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Central America

Posts: 679
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuo View Post
the dealer will probably charge hundreds to do it, if they will at all.
If you're a bit mechanically inclined, and have an extra pair of feet at the pedals to keep the engine from stalling, you can do it in less than 1hour. The hardest part is getting the vacuum line off, but if you put a 2mm slit in the end of it, it'll pop right off.

Here's the original thread on how to do it:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...hlight=seafoam
It looks difficult!! Other people were saying that meth is another optio, how would you use meth, or how do you add it?
CrimsonIvy35i is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-27-2010, 12:06 AM   #15
CrimsonIvy35i
Captain
 
Drives: X6 M
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Central America

Posts: 679
iTrader: (0)

Wow, I wished an experienced person would Seafoam my car here in Massachusetts.
CrimsonIvy35i is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-27-2010, 12:07 AM   #16
Transport3r
Maaaaaaaaaaaaaad
 
Transport3r's Avatar
 
Drives: N54 E92 & N52 Z4
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Melbourne, FL

Posts: 1,204
iTrader: (2)

It looks intimidating at first, but it's not that bad actually. I actually took off the entire HVAC cowl, engine cover and air intake to get to the manifold nipple.

Meth is not unlike having a nitrous setup. It injects a water/methanol mixture into the engine. Its primary function is to make more power for a brief amount of time. As a side effect, the intake valves get hit with the mixture and this cleans them somewhat. However, meth will not clean the exhaust valves, and it's not something you'll benefit from if you're not already substantially modified.

hope that helps!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonIvy35i View Post
It looks difficult!! Other people were saying that meth is another optio, how would you use meth, or how do you add it?
__________________
Josh-

Transport3r is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-27-2010, 12:14 AM   #17
CrimsonIvy35i
Captain
 
Drives: X6 M
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Central America

Posts: 679
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuo View Post
It looks intimidating at first, but it's not that bad actually. I actually took off the entire HVAC cowl, engine cover and air intake to get to the manifold nipple.

Meth is not unlike having a nitrous setup. It injects a water/methanol mixture into the engine. Its primary function is to make more power for a brief amount of time. As a side effect, the intake valves get hit with the mixture and this cleans them somewhat. However, meth will not clean the exhaust valves, and it's not something you'll benefit from if you're not already substantially modified.

hope that helps!
Well, I could take it to a bmw shop(non dealership) and let them know the procedures and maybe they'll automatically know how to do it. Either way, did you notice any difference in the car's performance? Thank's a lot for the info btw.
CrimsonIvy35i is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-27-2010, 12:50 AM   #18
blacknbean
Major
 
Drives: e92 335i
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SF

Posts: 1,024
iTrader: (2)

that 350$ process is just a 10$ can of seafoam. ive seafoamed my car like 3x in 10k and it gets better each time. better idle and smoother pickup. i first did it as 45k so i bet it was super grimey in there. my plan now is to do it every oil change.
blacknbean is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-27-2010, 02:26 AM   #19
gun6slinger9
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Calgary Canada

Posts: 265
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by WWONG View Post
The surprise isn't what Lexus said. The surprise is that Lexus even uses turbos. WHAT?
Direct injection does not have to be turbocharged...
gun6slinger9 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-27-2010, 03:11 AM   #20
TheRedBaron
Flying Ace
 
TheRedBaron's Avatar
 
Drives: F10 M5
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Orinda, CA

Posts: 46
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gun6slinger9 View Post
Direct injection does not have to be turbocharged...
Audi's FSI V8 in the RS4, S5, and R8.. for example.
TheRedBaron is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-27-2010, 07:05 AM   #21
Socom
Major General
 
Drives: 2010 335D
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Atl.

Posts: 5,201
iTrader: (0)

This is common for DI engines due to the lack of port injection which allows gasoline to wash over the valves (reason for all those adds regarding gasoline detergents).

Of course the type of motor oil used could make the problem worse.
Socom is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-27-2010, 07:25 AM   #22
wrickem
doesn't really care
 
wrickem's Avatar
 
Drives: what he wants to
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: lambertville nj

Posts: 2,296
iTrader: (0)

Go to the 3rd dealer who said "of course it's covered under warranty".
__________________
______________________________________________
'14 528-xdrive - daily driver/winter beater, '06 Boxster - for fun, '07 M6- for even more fun.
wrickem is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:55 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST