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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis > Why are the BBK kits so expensive?



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      01-30-2007, 04:02 AM   #23
Evan@Creative
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When you buy a BBK from Brembo or any of the other major bbk manufacture, you are paying for a large amount of research and developement, expensive manufacturing processes, and of course the name on the brakes.


By the way, Adham I think your sig is sick
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      01-30-2007, 04:48 AM   #24
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Some one call me when they make an aftermarket carbon brake kit like Porsche's PCCB system then I'll buy it...
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      01-30-2007, 08:44 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan@Creative View Post

By the way, Adham I think your sig is sick

Thanks man
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      01-30-2007, 10:10 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan@Creative View Post
When you buy a BBK from Brembo or any of the other major bbk manufacture, you are paying for a large amount of research and developement, expensive manufacturing processes, and of course the name on the brakes.:
Also realize these are very low-volume products. Not only is the E90 a rather low volume car, but each model of 3 series that has different sized brakes requires a unique brake kit (ideally, Stoptech does this, cant speak for the rest) then consider out of this pool of customers, how many mod their cars, and how many of THAT group are going to buy a BBK.
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      01-30-2007, 11:46 AM   #27
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BBK's are only really needed when you up the HP on the car. Like for instance over 400HP, which the Xede provides. Without the upgrade, your stopping power decreases and you'll need to stop earlier in order to get the same effect.

Its only worth it on Modded cars....oh and I'm not talking about a tint or painted reflectors.
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      01-30-2007, 12:49 PM   #28
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Quote:
Also realize these are very low-volume products. Not only is the E90 a rather low volume car, but each model of 3 series that has different sized brakes requires a unique brake kit (ideally, Stoptech does this, cant speak for the rest) then consider out of this pool of customers, how many mod their cars, and how many of THAT group are going to buy a BBK.
That's what I'm really wondering ... are they trying to make you think it's a low volume product or in reality are they just using the same caliper over and over. I wouldn't necessarily call Brembo low volume now that they're doing oem for Nissan, Infiniti, Volvo, etc. That's a LOT of production volume.

I'm wondering if there aren't maybe 4-5 physically different calipers and that the only application specific parts are the custom mounting bracket and the rotor. And I'm sure rotor manufacturing inherently has a lot of flexibility.

If I were a manufacturer that's how I'd do it. I wouldn't want the expensive of custom designing and producing each individual unit. Especially if I could lower my costs and increase my profits by keeping the retail cost of the kit high.

Then again, outside of the oems I doubt they're selling a lot of volume. Maybe 1 e90 kit for every 10000 e90s produced? But still, if all my parts are off the shelf that's a lot of profit.
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      01-31-2007, 01:57 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude View Post
BBK's are only really needed when you up the HP on the car.
I totally disagree.
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      01-31-2007, 02:18 PM   #30
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Oh really? Well lemme tell you. The brakes on the 335 are AWESOME! Theres no real reason for me to pay $2500 for a pair of BBK's for my fronts if the power on the car is the same other than to look cool and buddy, thats not a good reason, unless you have the cash to burn.
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      01-31-2007, 02:49 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude View Post
BBK's are only really needed when you up the HP on the car.

Absolutely incorrect.


Your stock 335 brakes may be great around town, but how about on the AutoX track?

BBKs are made for 2 reasons:
-Decrease stopping distance (in this case, you're right, this is where you'd get a BBK to go along with a power upgrade)
-TO DECREASE BRAKE FADE! Try using your brakes very very hard for any more than 2 minutes. I mean, run up to 80mph, slam on the brakes down to 40, then go up to 120, slam on them till you hit 60, and continue doing this. Ride on the brakes like you mean it. Your breaks will get EXTREMELY hot, and will begin to "fade" - essentially, they won't work as well.

BBK's dissapate heat and add a larger stopping surface, which is optimal for performance driving situations.

Most of our BBK customers are either show cars (a BBK is absolutely necessary if you want to place in a show) or "weekend warrior" Autocross afficionados.

There are various levels of BBK's geared for different things. If you are just going up on the windy roads every weekend, as so many BMW owners do, you probably don't need a BBK, but if you do purchase one of the smaller, more affordable systems, you will notice a significantly enhanced and improved driving experience. I know I did. My braking system was under $3000 retail - for front AND rear.

JL
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      01-31-2007, 02:51 PM   #32
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Also, in regards to volume - there are hundreds of Le Mans series cars - they're all running BBKs. There are hundreds of show cars - also all running BBKs. Then you have the weekend warriors, too. Just because people don't post their BBKs certainly does not mean they are out there. And that's just aftermarket. Let's think, as someone else said, of all the Subaru's, Porsches, Mercedes, Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Infinitis, Nissans, and other assorted supercars that use Brembo BBKs. In fact, I think it's an embarrassment that the new M5 and M6 don't have brembo systems.

Brembo wouldn't develop the kits for a car if they weren't selling well. Don't worry about them, they are selling just fine
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      01-31-2007, 03:29 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude View Post
Oh really? Well lemme tell you. The brakes on the 335 are AWESOME! Theres no real reason for me to pay $2500 for a pair of BBK's for my fronts if the power on the car is the same other than to look cool and buddy, thats not a good reason, unless you have the cash to burn.
I plan to track my car..I have about 110 track days under my belt (and I am talking about road racing courses like Laguna Seca/Sears Point/Thunderhill/Buttonwillow/Willow Springs/Spring Mtn - Nevada/Miller Motorsports Park - Utah, and Second Creek Raceway - Colorado). I am an instructor for NASA/AudiClubNA/NorthernCaliforniaRacingClub, and have also taught for BMW/Subaru/Miata/Tracquest. I also raced a spec miata in 2003 and 2004 in the very competitive SF Region SCCA. Trust me..you need a BBK to be safe on the track. BTW, I have a dedicated race car for most of my track escapades..but still plan to take the 335i on the track on occasion. I have driven two 335i's so far..one a friends (kujo on this forum) and one at a dealership. The brakes are nice..but they are not sufficient for the track use I will put them thru.

If they are not for you...they are not good for you. But I will be getting a BBK on my car.
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      01-31-2007, 03:48 PM   #34
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I agree, that the R&D argument is invalid on the consumer packages that we can buy from stoptech and Brembo. I dont know for sure, but i also think there are a small number of calipers that a manufacture has, and they make only minor changes IF ANY to them before piecing together a new kit. Anyway you try to slice it, there is a huge markup, and there is no logical reasoning behind it besides padding the profit. Nothing against that when so many are willing to fork over $3k for a front setup only.
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      01-31-2007, 03:50 PM   #35
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S4to335 - Talk to us when you're ready. We're local
JL
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      01-31-2007, 04:34 PM   #36
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S4to335 - Talk to us when you're ready. We're local
JL
You are really local...my work address is in Campbell..and I store my race car in Monte Sereno. :-)
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      01-31-2007, 06:26 PM   #37
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Cool - We're opening up our shop in Sunnyvale most likely
JL
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      01-31-2007, 06:35 PM   #38
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Oh really? Well lemme tell you. The brakes on the 335 are AWESOME!
Wow ... great empirical evidence to back your arguement. Saying they're AWESOME doesn't really do much to convince me, sorry. But that's okay, it wasn't even close to the topic of the thread.
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      01-31-2007, 06:36 PM   #39
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My braking system was under $3000 retail - for front AND rear.
Errr ... can you share what kind of setup that is? If you're talking wholesale then it doesn't really help us out any.
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      01-31-2007, 06:59 PM   #40
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No, that was RETAIL price.

My exact setup doesn't fit E90, but here is the "affordable" setup for E90:
-GT Big Brake Kit: 355mm Front
-GT Big Brake Kit: 345mm 4 Piston Rear

This is more expensive, but this is because the E90 is more powerful than the E46 328, and so the smaller brakes aren't really adequate.

Those prices are 10% off - we ship free.

JL

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      01-31-2007, 07:32 PM   #41
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and there you have it, with a price of $2999 being 10% off retail, other retailers selling the same thing for $2700 shows you how much dealer to consumer mark up there is. I dont know the exact cost to dealers, but you are seeing around a $700-800 dealer profit...im sure brembo does nicely on their end as well.

so back to the OP, I dont think you will get any "big name" bbk for $3k Front AND rear. No idea what that guy was refering to.
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      01-31-2007, 10:29 PM   #42
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Other vendors sell this kit at $2700? Please do show me.
JL
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      02-01-2007, 12:45 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obLu View Post
Wow ... great empirical evidence to back your arguement. Saying they're AWESOME doesn't really do much to convince me, sorry. But that's okay, it wasn't even close to the topic of the thread.
I'm sorry.....and you are......?
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      02-01-2007, 01:00 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jlevi SW View Post
Try using your brakes very very hard for any more than 2 minutes. I mean, run up to 80mph, slam on the brakes down to 40, then go up to 120, slam on them till you hit 60, and continue doing this. Ride on the brakes like you mean it. Your breaks will get EXTREMELY hot, and will begin to "fade" - essentially, they won't work as well.
Um.....who the hell actually does this on normal days? Only on tracks or races. I've driven on the autobahn for 4 years now and my stock brakes have been just fine going 140mph and stop and go and stop and go and stop and go.

You're right about needing bigger brakes for track use, but I guess the real question is who the hell takes their brand new $50,000 car to a track and does this? People in the states arent used to driving that fast and especially on a track, but hey whatever. Good luck.

When I get the Xede, I will be upgrading my brakes. But most people that do buy BBK's will be just to show everyone walking by the Brembo labels on their calipers.
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