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      11-07-2010, 03:04 PM   #1
///ajd
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Insurance help - no fault claim, whats it mean?

Background

1. May 2010. Wife driving in car park. Other driver reversing in front of her backs towards her. Wife stops car & hits horn. Other driver hits our car. Other driver admits "sorry I didn't see you".

2. Other insurance company try and claim 50/50. We have none of it. Make clear statements of what had happened - demand to know what case is for us to have any liability (there is none).

3. Hear nothing for ages. Keep pestering insurance company.

4. Finally last week get this letter. From a brief chat with my insurer this sounds like we've won, and won't have any issue getting full costs from their insurer, including our no excess and with no impact on our no claims.

BUT - is this the case? Can any legal eagles shed any light on where I actually standard. My main worry is that I have to prove to my new French insurer that I've had no claims and I'm concerned this still doesn't sound 100% water tight. Or it maybe that this is as good as it ever gets when an insurance company "effectively admits liability, but doesn't want to say so in writing".


This is the letter:

"We are writing further to the above claim.

The third party insurers have confirmed they will settle your claim on a without prejudice basis. This means that they cannot formally accept liability but should we provide them with the repair documents they will reimburse our claim and your excess.

Please advise if you now wish to carry out repairs. "

Last edited by ///ajd; 11-07-2010 at 05:21 PM.
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      11-07-2010, 04:16 PM   #2
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Third party insurer are as good as accepting liability by paying your claim in full. The reason many don't accept responsibility these days is so that should any spurious personal injury claim come to light within the mandatory 3 year period that the claim will be reviewed without an automatic decision based on previous admission of liability.

Many insurers now when quoting ask :-
(a) have you had a claim within the last x years
(b) was that claim recovered in full from a 3rd party

To your direct question, you should state this as a non-fault accident, recovered in full from the third party insurer.
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      11-07-2010, 04:50 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quattrogmbh View Post
Third party insurer are as good as accepting liability by paying your claim in full. The reason many don't accept responsibility these days is so that should any spurious personal injury claim come to light within the mandatory 3 year period that the claim will be reviewed without an automatic decision based on previous admission of liability.

Many insurers now when quoting ask :-
(a) have you had a claim within the last x years
(b) was that claim recovered in full from a 3rd party

To your direct question, you should state this as a non-fault accident, recovered in full from the third party insurer.
+1. By paying up they are definitely admitting liability but for the reasons stated above they won't actually admit liability and they'd previously tried 'knock for knock'.

Although your wife unfortunately was subjected to the poor driving of the other motorist the accident wasn't a very serious accident (thankfully). I believe had such an accident taken place then the third party insurer is more 'prepared' for claims of personal injury, loss of earnings etc arising from a serious accident.

Good for you being persistent, as the game is often played hoping all parties will just accept what is offered initially as many people can't be bothered with the hassle.
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      11-07-2010, 05:15 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quattrogmbh View Post
To your direct question, you should state this as a non-fault accident, recovered in full from the third party insurer.
Would this affect the premium payable then next year? It seems somehow unfair that this should be the case.

As said above, fair play for sticking to your guns over it.
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      11-08-2010, 03:06 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beemerbird View Post
+1. By paying up they are definitely admitting liability
I would disagree, there is no admission of liability.

However, I would still put this down as a non-fault accident on any insurance form, due to the fact that the other parties insurer paid in full.
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      11-08-2010, 07:42 AM   #6
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Have you paid an excess?
No excess means no claim made, your insurer cannot file a claim, be it full or 50/50 under your name/policy until you have contributed the agreed excess - policy rules

When insurers are asking if you have made any claims, they mean "YOU". For example, I was rear ended in February, I did not "claim" but instead the guy who hit me is the one who files for a "claim", unless he can bare the weight of the repair bill. This has nothing to do with fault - a claim is a claim, you either made one or you didn't. The yard-stick is the excess, if they ask for it, YOU are claiming.

You will, however, have to declare this as an "accident" in the last x years - fault or no fault.

Last edited by NightVisitant; 11-08-2010 at 07:48 AM.
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      11-08-2010, 08:04 AM   #7
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Correct.
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      11-08-2010, 08:10 AM   #8
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Your insurer WILL penalise you even for a no fault claim from another insurance company.

Basically anyone involved in an accident, even when not at fault, is statistically more likely to have an accident again.

Horrendously unfair but then so is any insurance.

Sorry to hear about this - I REALLY hate dealing with any sort of insurance matter.
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      11-08-2010, 01:08 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NFS View Post
I would disagree, there is no admission of liability.
In a strictly legal sense no, hence the 'settle your claim on a without prejudice basis'. Taking out the black and white of legal technicalities then morally they are imo.

Bet you're a bugger to play Trivial Pursuit with.
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      11-08-2010, 02:08 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightVisitant View Post
Have you paid an excess?
No excess means no claim made, your insurer cannot file a claim, be it full or 50/50 under your name/policy until you have contributed the agreed excess - policy rules

When insurers are asking if you have made any claims, they mean "YOU". For example, I was rear ended in February, I did not "claim" but instead the guy who hit me is the one who files for a "claim", unless he can bare the weight of the repair bill. This has nothing to do with fault - a claim is a claim, you either made one or you didn't. The yard-stick is the excess, if they ask for it, YOU are claiming.

You will, however, have to declare this as an "accident" in the last x years - fault or no fault.
Does this mean I should get the 3rd party to make a claim for my damage instead? They are unlikely to be making a claim for their own car as there was very little damage (the damage on our car is only some minor creases and cracks in the paint - but not our fault so we wanted it fixed). Would this make any difference to our declaration of an "accident" in the last x years? Financially it should make no difference. I thought that a "no fault" claim would not count against you (even though I take 335diesels point about what it might technically mean statistically).

I have not had it fixed yet, so not made a claim - but I understand I would have to pay the excess which they would then claim back.
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      11-10-2010, 08:57 AM   #11
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When I had my accident, I never payed anything, everything was done directly between the insurers, and all costs taken directly from the party at fault (or their insurers) - nothing taken from me and then recovered later.

I would confront your insurance about paying any excess, I'm very curious why they would even ask for it when you're, essentially, not claiming. Your insurance should be speaking to the other party's insurance and saying something along the lines of: "Right, your driver has hit my customer and you have accepted liability, now and go fix his (your) car."

You should have nothing else to do with it.

So yes, the 3rd party is the one claiming - they pay THEIR excess to repair YOUR vehicle. If they chose to repair their own vehicle, that is their call. It would not make any difference to your accident declaration unfortunately, an accident is an accident. At least you are not claiming. No fault claims may not count against you, but it changes what risk band you fall under. It's all very complicated.

Let us know how it goes, sorry for the late response.

As a general bit of advice, particularly with crafty insurance companies, is don't part with your money without a fight, because when it's time to get it back, you will need to raise hell, and then some.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///ajd View Post
Does this mean I should get the 3rd party to make a claim for my damage instead? They are unlikely to be making a claim for their own car as there was very little damage (the damage on our car is only some minor creases and cracks in the paint - but not our fault so we wanted it fixed). Would this make any difference to our declaration of an "accident" in the last x years? Financially it should make no difference. I thought that a "no fault" claim would not count against you (even though I take 335diesels point about what it might technically mean statistically).

I have not had it fixed yet, so not made a claim - but I understand I would have to pay the excess which they would then claim back.
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      11-10-2010, 05:50 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beemerbird View Post
In a strictly legal sense no, hence the 'settle your claim on a without prejudice basis'. Taking out the black and white of legal technicalities then morally they are imo.

Bet you're a bugger to play Trivial Pursuit with.
I'm quite good at the green questions.
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      11-11-2010, 02:39 PM   #13
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Its not fair but the no fault claim still influences your next 5 years(?) premiums.

Should be able to claim for that as well as repair costs imo.
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