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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > STETT Performance Stage 2 Oil Cooler Kit w/ 180F Thermostat **EXTENSIVE REVIEW/DIY**



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      12-04-2010, 11:35 AM   #67
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I Understand some peoples logic that BMW had these oil temps scorching hot for a reason, while some may disagree, so let me just throw this out there...

Oil viscosity ratings are rated at 215 Degrees, so where would you want your oil temp?

I rest my case.
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      12-04-2010, 11:51 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPSlick View Post
I Understand some peoples logic that BMW had these oil temps scorching hot for a reason, while some may disagree, so let me just throw this out there...

Oil viscosity ratings are rated at 215 Degrees, so where would you want your oil temp?

I rest my case.
Ok, so by your logic, explain why I have 240F oil temperatures with no effort whatsoever just driving through normal routines.



The truth is we do not know what my operating temperatures will be in the warmer temperatures where this matters most. I acknowledged this flaw in my testing in the review. I am not sure what else I can do?
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      12-04-2010, 11:58 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STETT Performance
Here is the pricing on the kits:

135i/335i stage 1 retail: $645
135i stage 2 retail: $685
335i stage 2 retail: $735

The thermostat kit retail: $169

As mentioned previously we will be offering a group buy in short time as soon as we wrap up the last few details on the kits.

Very very nice write up. Thank You.

I am very interested in purchasing.
Alan
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      12-04-2010, 12:03 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS View Post
Ok, so by your logic, explain why I have 240F oil temperatures with no effort whatsoever just driving through normal routines.



The truth is we do not know what my operating temperatures will be in the warmer temperatures where this matters most. I acknowledged this flaw in my testing in the review. I am not sure what else I can do?
Explain while your oil temperatures are 240 on a stock oil cooler and thermostat?

Cause the thermostat opens at 235-240.. LOL

If BMW knew it all, they wouldnt be making mickey mouse fuel pumps, daffy duck injectors, and roger rabbit coilpacks either.

Edit- I think you have mistaken my post as some attack to the integrity of your purchase of the oil cooler. However, my purpose of my post was saying BMW stock Oil temps are too high, and they should at best be 215 degrees. Meaning I would agree with your purchase, and the conclusion we need our oil temps lower. Take it easy.

Last edited by Jeff@TopGearSolutions; 12-04-2010 at 12:22 PM.
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      12-04-2010, 12:13 PM   #71
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Phenomenal as usual FB! I'm surprised the kit didn't come with a nice mesh grill to replace the OEM one in the fender liner though - that's the only part of this install that doesn't look great to me and it's one of the parts that can be seen. Other than that it looks like a high quality piece...
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      12-04-2010, 12:14 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c4s335i View Post
Based on the pics of the stock oil t-stat, a properly sized replacement spring could do the trick if you just want to lower the temps without the hole filter housing replacement. Sounds like a fun project to me.
I would think this can be done quite simply too. In theory, it would give us close to the desired oil temp while keeping practically stock setup.

Who wants to take the spring out, measure spring rate and start testing to get us down to 215ish?
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      12-04-2010, 12:16 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianMN View Post
I would think this can be done quite simply too. In theory, it would give us close to the desired oil temp while keeping practically stock setup.

Who wants to take the spring out, measure spring rate and start testing to get us down to 215ish?
I'd be happy with daily 190-200 Oil Temps.
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      12-04-2010, 12:23 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by JPSlick View Post
I'd be happy with daily 190-200 Oil Temps.
Well it would be nice to get a full understanding of the "benefit" of increased oil temps ON THIS PARTICULAR ENGINE..to determine the sweet spot.
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      12-04-2010, 12:27 PM   #75
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The more I look at the pic, it really seems like swapping springs would be simple--the ID, OD and spacing of the spring don't need to be identical.

Sorry for the threadjack FBIS, We're all still amazed with your review and the product..just have to take a mental break and talk about something else since it took us 30 minutes to read, haha
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      12-04-2010, 01:36 PM   #76
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met Chad Stett at Dallas Cars and Coffee this morning. Chad- nice to meet you finally. We had a long discussion about the oilcooler- he of course had it installed on his 335. Man it looks even better in person. He took 30-45 minutes to answer all of my questions, and many others standing around, and I am confident this OC setup will be perfect for my needs (DD and a few track days/yr in Dallas). Can't wait to get it installed.!
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      12-04-2010, 02:06 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianMN View Post
Well it would be nice to get a full understanding of the "benefit" of increased oil temps ON THIS PARTICULAR ENGINE..to determine the sweet spot.
The more you get past 215 oil temps the more oil sheers, that was my understanding.

Its not like we have a magical engine here guys, if you look at any other vehicles oil temperature ranges, they usually are 190-210.

If I were to guess, BMW wants more fluidity in their oil, maybe so it uses less oil pressure? Or perhaps emissions purposes keeping this engine scorching hot.

If performance was what this car was about I would bet my last dollar they would be making this car with bigger oil coolers, and a thermostat opening in the 180-190 range.

I apologize if this has gone somewhat off topic of the review, perhaps a new thread discussing oil temps is necessary.
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      12-04-2010, 02:08 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianMN View Post
I would think this can be done quite simply too. In theory, it would give us close to the desired oil temp while keeping practically stock setup.

Who wants to take the spring out, measure spring rate and start testing to get us down to 215ish?

+1
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      12-05-2010, 03:58 AM   #79
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GREAT REVIEW!!! as always, you're a real asset to the community.

Can you please advise on the amount of time it took for the install ?
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      12-05-2010, 08:39 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS View Post
c4s335i,

If you think the additional oil cooler kits are not limping at the track, I think you should dig a little deeper. All I am hearing is that they are limping.



I understand the kit has been driven on the Texas Mile. I think you are being awefully harsh with a lot of assumptions. This testing was done at 40F. Please do not forget that. If you add 38F ambient to make the testing identical, one must assume those numbers would converge in some way. Who knows how much. There may be some track cars that never run a thermostat. What you must remember is you have choices. If you want a 180F thermostat, 190F, 200F, etc. Choose what best meets your needs.
I never suggested cars with oil cooler kits aren't limping at the track, so not sure where you pulled that from. Limping is caused by lots of reasons, most having nothing to do with oil temps. The fact that this high-compression turbo car can run such high boost thresholds without constant detonation is a feat in it's self.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by assumptions, the only assumption I made is that BMW wants the oil temp in a certain range, and I suggested that dropping the oil temp 50 degrees is probably not a good idea. I personally would want my temps in the 230 -260 range, with 270 being the highest I would be comfortable sustaining on the track. This based from data of personal track driving, as well as others. When I finish my setup, I will definitely test it on the numerous tracks available in the region, starting with VIR in February.

You should also keep in mind that the thermostat only sets the lowest point of the oil's normal operating range. Given that oils are meant to run 210F+, dropping the temp below this point doesn't make a lot of sense. Which is part of the reason why it's so hard to choose a proper oil cooler size without the use of thermostat. The only real concern should be how high the oil temps go. If the oil cooler setup is not efficient enough to remove the heat given the power range of the motor, the oil temps will still go above ideal, regardless of how low the thermostat is set to. The only thing that controls the upper temp range is design of the core, the airflow to and through the core, and ambient temps, not the thermostat. In fact, he could run without a thermostat if he were only ever driving it on the track, just as some racers eliminate their coolant thermostats. For everyday driving, I would still strongly suggest that everyone doesn't go out and get a lower temp thermostat thinking that the drastically lower temps some how improves the operating efficiency of the car. That's really my only point.
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      12-05-2010, 08:45 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPSlick View Post
I Understand some peoples logic that BMW had these oil temps scorching hot for a reason, while some may disagree, so let me just throw this out there...

Oil viscosity ratings are rated at 215 Degrees, so where would you want your oil temp?

I rest my case.
There is no logic in saying BMW wants scorching hot temps, and no one has suggested that. And 220, 250, 270 isn't scorching hot for oil. 300? Now that's way too hot. Since you stated a real fact about oil being rated at 215+, that should also suggest that you don't want the oil temp to operate below that point. Most racers will see much higher oil temps on track 260-270F range, and yes the oil is designed to run in that range. What I'm talking about is everyday driving temps. They should not be 50degress below what BMW designed.
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      12-05-2010, 08:48 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianMN View Post
I would think this can be done quite simply too. In theory, it would give us close to the desired oil temp while keeping practically stock setup.

Who wants to take the spring out, measure spring rate and start testing to get us down to 215ish?
I'd be happy to. Just buy me this and consider it done!

http://www.jegs.com/i/Intercomp/541/...ductId=1017701
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      12-05-2010, 09:01 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPSlick View Post
The more you get past 215 oil temps the more oil sheers, that was my understanding.

Its not like we have a magical engine here guys, if you look at any other vehicles oil temperature ranges, they usually are 190-210.

If I were to guess, BMW wants more fluidity in their oil, maybe so it uses less oil pressure? Or perhaps emissions purposes keeping this engine scorching hot.

If performance was what this car was about I would bet my last dollar they would be making this car with bigger oil coolers, and a thermostat opening in the 180-190 range.

I apologize if this has gone somewhat off topic of the review, perhaps a new thread discussing oil temps is necessary.
Normal oil doesn't like temps beyond 260, they began to break down. Synthetics can typically stand up to 300F, not that I would recommend it. Bottom line is track oil temps are not driving around town oil temps, so again it's the upper range we are concerned with.

Also, keep in mind the cylinders and cylinder heads are completely water jacketed, meaning that water temp has the greatest effect on combustion efficiency, not oil temp. Which is another point as to why dropping the oil 50degrees isn't a great idea. Although the oil is being used to cool the surface of the piston, that's mostly to keep the piston from melting at the 1500F+ EGTs that this engine can see. The oil is also not being used to cool the turbos, water is. So if you want the engine to run cooler, change your water thermostat. The biggest (not the only) concern with oil temp is making sure it doesn't get so it hot that it starts to break down.
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      12-05-2010, 10:50 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPSlick View Post
Explain while your oil temperatures are 240 on a stock oil cooler and thermostat?

Cause the thermostat opens at 235-240.. LOL

If BMW knew it all, they wouldnt be making mickey mouse fuel pumps, daffy duck injectors, and roger rabbit coilpacks either.

Edit- I think you have mistaken my post as some attack to the integrity of your purchase of the oil cooler. However, my purpose of my post was saying BMW stock Oil temps are too high, and they should at best be 215 degrees. Meaning I would agree with your purchase, and the conclusion we need our oil temps lower. Take it easy.
Lol, I didn't take it any way my friend. I was simply reasoning that if BMW wanted 215 F operating temperatures, then why not a thermostat of 215F?
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      12-05-2010, 11:26 AM   #85
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Time will telly friends. BMW said the 1M runs cooler bases on one of the interview that was posted. Let's see how they tackled that.
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      12-05-2010, 01:05 PM   #86
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This looks very nice and the diffuser plus additional exiting is vital. Nice job.

FYI, The European models thermostat opens at 190ish.
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      12-05-2010, 01:26 PM   #87
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This looks very nice and the diffuser plus additional exiting is vital. Nice job.

FYI, The European models thermostat opens at 190ish.
Really? It's been around 15-20F temps where I live lately, and my oil temp still fairly quickly goes to 230F, just the same as in the summer when temps are in the high 80's. If the thermostat opened at 190 I would expect oil temps to stay quite a bit lower than a steady 230 with very easy driving.

I have never owned a car with oil temps running this high though, my e92 325i never went above 210 regardless of driving style, so when I first got this car I thoght it was running too hot... In many ways I still do, since I don't know of any other streetcars that consistently run the oil this hot, but then I'm a regular Joe so what do I know.
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      12-05-2010, 01:57 PM   #88
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Really? It's been around 15-20F temps where I live lately, and my oil temp still fairly quickly goes to 230F, just the same as in the summer when temps are in the high 80's. If the thermostat opened at 190 I would expect oil temps to stay quite a bit lower than a steady 230 with very easy driving.

I have never owned a car with oil temps running this high though, my e92 325i never went above 210 regardless of driving style, so when I first got this car I thoght it was running too hot... In many ways I still do, since I don't know of any other streetcars that consistently run the oil this hot, but then I'm a regular Joe so what do I know.
My service advisor told me this. He was in Germany for a vacation and a friend of his is a BMW engineer over there. They had a talk about this as my SA was curious how the European cars can run on the Autobahn at 5000+ RPM and not overheat.

Just relaying what I was told.

Additionally, I think he said the cars run richer over there also.
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