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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > AUDIO/VIDEO + BLUETOOTH + Electronics/Alarm/Software > MS-8 vs XD600/6



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      07-06-2015, 04:08 PM   #1
e90bmw328i
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MS-8 vs XD600/6

I could not quiet come to a conclusion on this one for a long long time now.

I have a MS-8 based setup for my Hifi radio with an additional center channel per Technic's setup. But with the Logic7 processing active in MS-8, it causes very bad echo when answering phone calls due to time alignment. I am aware of the hot patch JBL released, where you press the mute button on the MS-8 remote and answer the phone call. But it is not the best solution and I have not routed the MS-8 screen to the cabin. So I am currently running with Login7 off.

Now I am thinking if I should replace the MS8 with a XD600/6 and be done with it. What do you all think? Can we setup the XD600/6 equally as good as a MS-8?

Thanks.
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      07-06-2015, 04:23 PM   #2
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you are comparing apples and oranges. xd600 is just and amp no sound processing capabilities. If I had to start over again I would consider one of the new amp/DSP combo units from Helix. The P Six or one of the Match units.
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      07-06-2015, 05:01 PM   #3
e90bmw328i
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But with any sound processors comes the dreaded phone call echo issue, isnt it? I have no installed a Dynavin N6 in my car. So probably I can achieve the same kind of processing ability of the MS-8 and still have a decent call quality?
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      07-06-2015, 05:49 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90bmw328i View Post
But with any sound processors comes the dreaded phone call echo issue, isnt it? I have no installed a Dynavin N6 in my car. So probably I can achieve the same kind of processing ability of the MS-8 and still have a decent call quality?
i dont get any echo with my phone calls.

I am using the OEM headunit and a PPI DSP.
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      07-06-2015, 06:19 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csu87
Quote:
Originally Posted by e90bmw328i View Post
But with any sound processors comes the dreaded phone call echo issue, isnt it? I have no installed a Dynavin N6 in my car. So probably I can achieve the same kind of processing ability of the MS-8 and still have a decent call quality?
i dont get any echo with my phone calls.

I am using the OEM headunit and a PPI DSP.
Hmm now i want to hear about your setup. Do you uve a build thread or something where i can look it up? What amp are u using?
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      07-06-2015, 08:40 PM   #6
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I am using a Helix DSP with time alignment as well as eq and full compliment of crossovers, no echo on BT calls. I think this is just an MS8 problem.
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      07-06-2015, 09:19 PM   #7
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No echo here either. I have the Helix Match PP82DSP powering jehnert flatlines and focal subs - fully active set-up and phone calls are crystal clear.
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      07-06-2015, 11:01 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdgatti View Post
I am using a Helix DSP with time alignment as well as eq and full compliment of crossovers, no echo on BT calls. I think this is just an MS8 problem.
Correct, Echo only a JBL Ms-8 problem. Ive own pretty much every dsp in the market.
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      07-06-2015, 11:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90bmw328i View Post
Hmm now i want to hear about your setup. Do you uve a build thread or something where i can look it up? What amp are u using?
I do have a build thread but it doesn't show the dsp.

Ppi deq.8 dsp
Incriminator Audio 10.1 for the sub
2 Incriminator Audio 3.4s for speakers

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1017588
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      07-06-2015, 11:39 PM   #10
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Forget about the ms-8 look at the helix dsp/amps

Forget about the ms-8 look at the helix dsp/amps
The Helix products actually have decent or great amplifiers
integrated with there dsp product.
ms-8 only has head unit power plus the hassle with the auto tune.

I think there is at least one guy here that bailed on his ms-8 and got
a xd 600/6 and liked it better. But he also has some good speakers.
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      07-06-2015, 11:55 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csu87 View Post
I do have a build thread but it doesn't show the dsp.

Ppi deq.8 dsp
Incriminator Audio 10.1 for the sub
2 Incriminator Audio 3.4s for speakers

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1017588
WoW!! thats one heck of a setup. Great job.

Thanks to all who replied. Now you all made me think seriously about Helix DSP with amp.
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      07-07-2015, 12:03 AM   #12
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I am assuming you are all talking about P SIX DSP. I will read about this and also the install threads here. I guess I will lose the center channel speaker with the Helix which is not a problem if the P SIX does a good job.

HOLY!! the P six is super expensive. My wife will kill me if I bought something like that.
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      07-07-2015, 09:10 AM   #13
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All this hate for the MS-8. Yes there is BT echo, and it is not for everyone, but the auto-tune will generally give much better results than one of those expensive DSP units in the hands of rank tuning amateurs.
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      07-07-2015, 09:40 AM   #14
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False. The MS-8 barely provides decent sound quality.

Anyone with the internet and 1hr of time can set up a DSP better than the MS-8
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      07-07-2015, 09:59 AM   #15
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Actually, MS-8 is not bad at all especially for people sticking to factory speakers. With just a center channel addition, my car sounds wayyyyyy better and its ease of installation is the best thing. I currently have Logic7 - 'ON' but Processing - 'Defeat' mode and still get very decent sound. Then again, I am not an audiophile. So this setup may not work for everyone. I did lose midbass when I turned off Processing for which I am in the process of installing a Pioneer PRS-D800 amp to power the factory underseats. I picked up this amp for under $170 on amazon. Hence the choice.
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      07-07-2015, 10:03 AM   #16
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I looked at Match PP82DSP and also the Helix P SIX since yesterday. Tuning them seems a bit painful given I have no experience with such things. I might still look at PP82DSP in the future.

BTW, With the Dynavin N6 paired with MS-8, the audio quality is very good for my hearing abilities.
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      07-07-2015, 10:46 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90bmw328i View Post
Actually, MS-8 is not bad at all especially for people sticking to factory speakers. With just a center channel addition, my car sounds wayyyyyy better and its ease of installation is the best thing. I currently have Logic7 - 'ON' but Processing - 'Defeat' mode and still get very decent sound. Then again, I am not an audiophile. So this setup may not work for everyone. I did lose midbass when I turned off Processing for which I am in the process of installing a Pioneer PRS-D800 amp to power the factory underseats. I picked up this amp for under $170 on amazon. Hence the choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by e90bmw328i View Post
I looked at Match PP82DSP and also the Helix P SIX since yesterday. Tuning them seems a bit painful given I have no experience with such things. I might still look at PP82DSP in the future.

BTW, With the Dynavin N6 paired with MS-8, the audio quality is very good for my hearing abilities.
ive had the MS-8 before and i took it out within a day. I was able to get a better sound by running everything active off just my amps filters. With a DSP, there is no comparison. Not to mention the DSP gives you a ton more flexibility in your system and you arent limited to what the JBL thinks is a good sound/system configuration.

As far as ease of tuning, it is actually a lot easier than you think. There are a ton of how to guides, tutorials, preset crossover settings, etc... that you can find on google, and the software that most the newer DSPs use is pretty user friendly.

Granted, I know my way around an audio system, but it only took me about 10 minutes of pre-tuning (getting crossover points/timing set before uploading to the car) and about 30 minutes of fine tuning (music playing, adjusting to get the right sound) to get it dialed in.
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      07-07-2015, 07:24 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csu87
False. The MS-8 barely provides decent sound quality.

Anyone with the internet and 1hr of time can set up a DSP better than the MS-8
You have no idea what you're talking about.
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      07-07-2015, 07:36 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csu87 View Post
The MS-8 barely provides decent sound quality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by taibanl View Post
You have no idea what you're talking about.
....I wanted to say something like this earlier but decided to be nice and stay out of it....oh well, I guess I wont...

The issues that people (mostly installers) had with the MS-8 was never sound quality.....Gary Biggs won IASCA with a MS-8 and stock speakers for gods sake! It was that its setup was automated to the point that old school installers (of which I am one) disliked the lack of control they were given, and the tedious nature of recalibrating every time a minor change was made.

The lack of granular control drove me a bit nuts, and I know I personally had to "forget everything I though I knew" about audio setup and just trust in Andy W and the audio engineers at JBL when working with mine. BUT when the rest of the system is correctly setup up (gain, phase, crossovers and levels) the MS-8 create amazing SQ in minutes what would take hours (or days...or weeks) to do manually.

Yes if I were shopping now I would probably go with one of the Helix/Mosconi setups, since they are quite a bit newer, in some ways more powerful, and quite a bit more "user friendly" to pros, but to say the MS-8 does not sound good is inaccurate.


The OP has an MS-8 already installed and is happy with the SQ, getting the most out of the setup he has makes a lot more sense that scrapping it starting over. OP, as I told you by email, your best bet is just to put the MS-8 display in the armrest and use the remote to turn off processing when you get a call, yes its slightly inconvenient but you get in the habit of it pretty quick. I personally dont even think about hitting that button any more.
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      07-07-2015, 10:12 PM   #20
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Quote:
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You have no idea what you're talking about.
I've used the ms-8 and other dsps. Did not like the sound it produced, did not like the way it wanted to stage my system. I've won several local iasca sq comps so i think i know a little bit about what I'm talking about.
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      07-09-2015, 07:52 PM   #21
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Whats wrong with Mosconi/Gladen? I have the Mosconi D2 and it's great. It also has separate output if you want to add another amp for a sub(s).
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      07-09-2015, 08:38 PM   #22
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Nothing but they are pricy.

Nothing but they are pricy.(Mosconis are)
You see Mosconis being used by the guys that fill there
trunks on all the super high end car system's a lot.

They have a very nice base system upgrade consisting of
a 120.4 DSP and Gladen extremes and its AB power but you only
get 4 amped channels. Gladen in not widely known in the US.
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