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      08-29-2017, 11:40 AM   #1
jwebb335xi
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PSS or PS4S

Hey guys,

I've currently got a set of PSS (255/35/18) on 9" wide Apex EC-7, which have been fantastic, but they've hit the end of their useful life.

I can't get the PS4S in 255/35/18, but it comes in 245/40/18.... So, they'd be roughly 1/2 narrower and 1/2 taller. But, with improved comfort and wet performance, it seems the PS4S may be the way to go.

Thoughts, comments?

Has anyone made the leap from PSS to PS4S; and, if so, what have you noticed?
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      08-29-2017, 05:22 PM   #2
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PS4S expanded availability in January 18

Just got off phone with Discount Tire Direct and they said that the PSS is discontinued in their system, and that the PS4S will be available in stock 18" sizes starting in Jan '18. Hope this helps someone
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      08-29-2017, 09:42 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atheis View Post
Just got off phone with Discount Tire Direct and they said that the PSS is discontinued in their system, and that the PS4S will be available in stock 18" sizes starting in Jan '18. Hope this helps someone
I've got a set of PS4S being installed tomorrow. Looking forward to the "comparison" between PSS (which are great in my opinion) and the PS4S.
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      08-31-2017, 11:12 AM   #4
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I'd be careful, I have 18" ET30, 9" Arc-8 in a square setup on my E90 (details in my garage) and had to return my PS4S in 245/40/R18 because they were way too tall and would rub like mad in the front. Going with PSS 245/35/R18 were perfect. The 40 sidewall is too tall even though in the wheel calculators it doesn't look "too" off.
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      08-31-2017, 08:11 PM   #5
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Have you considered the Pilot Sport A/S 3 Plus?

Compare the 3 tires, if you're a normal every day driver you won't notice the difference. The 3 tires are very similar in all benchmarks, the PSS just has better dry braking from 50-0. Do you care about tenths of a second difference in lap time? If not then again go with A/S 3 Plus. You get 45K warranty / longer tread life.
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      09-01-2017, 07:52 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volasko View Post
I'd be careful, I have 18" ET30, 9" Arc-8 in a square setup on my E90 (details in my garage) and had to return my PS4S in 245/40/R18 because they were way too tall and would rub like mad in the front. Going with PSS 245/35/R18 were perfect. The 40 sidewall is too tall even though in the wheel calculators it doesn't look "too" off.
Yikes! I've got fewer than 100 miles on these tires and will examine closely whether they're rubbing anywhere!!

Thanks for the heads-up.
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      09-01-2017, 09:05 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwebb335xi View Post
Yikes! I've got fewer than 100 miles on these tires and will examine closely whether they're rubbing anywhere!!

Thanks for the heads-up.
You might fare better than myself with the x-drive ride height. My car was lowered and would rub pretty much right away on even the smallest of bumps.
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      09-01-2017, 01:03 PM   #8
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+1 for running 245/35/18. It's a MUCH better fit. I'm running that and 265/35/18 rear and the setup is perfect with zero rubbing on 18x9 ET30 front and 18x10 ET40 rear.

By the way, I'd strongly recommend the new Continental Extreme Contact Sport. They've completely fixed the shortcomings of the DW (soft sidewall, sloppy steering response, too much flex on turn-in) and increased longevity as well. I cannot tell the difference between these and the PSS sets I've run over the last 7 years, they're THAT good now.

Given the significant price savings between ECS and PS4S, I'm going to be running to ECS from now on as I can't justify the premium for such a marginal performance increase with the PS4S.
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      09-01-2017, 01:51 PM   #9
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245 is an awkward tire width because 35 is a bit short and 40 is a bit tall, from what I remember. Perhaps 235/40 is a better option or 255/35 but that might be a tough fit depending on the variables.

PS4S won't be fully available in 18" (or smaller) for a bit, they're launching 19" and up first because that's what most high-performance cars come with these days from the factory.
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      09-01-2017, 04:08 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6ixSpd View Post
+1 for running 245/35/18. It's a MUCH better fit. I'm running that and 265/35/18 rear and the setup is perfect with zero rubbing on 18x9 ET30 front and 18x10 ET40 rear.

By the way, I'd strongly recommend the new Continental Extreme Contact Sport. They've completely fixed the shortcomings of the DW (soft sidewall, sloppy steering response, too much flex on turn-in) and increased longevity as well. I cannot tell the difference between these and the PSS sets I've run over the last 7 years, they're THAT good now.

Given the significant price savings between ECS and PS4S, I'm going to be running to ECS from now on as I can't justify the premium for such a marginal performance increase with the PS4S.
Why is everyone disregarding the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 Plus. They perform just as good as the PSS and PS4S, and better than the new Continental ECS. Look at these test results from tirerack.com, all tested using the same model car, I put them in order from best to worst in each category:

Ride Comfort (Higher # better):
PS4S: 7.79 Winner
AS3+:7.76
ECS: 7.51
PSS: 7.41

Noise Comfort (Higher # better):
PSS: 8.01 Winner
PS4S: 7.8
AS3+:7.58
ECS: 7.37

Handling (higher # better):
PSS: 8.85 Winner
PS4S:8.76
AS3+:8.47
ECS:8.42

Lap Time Dry, in seconds (Lower time is better):
PSS: 29.74 Winner
PS4S: 29.78
AS3+:30.00
ECS:30.4

Slalom Dry, in seconds (Lower is better):
PS4S: 4.91 Winner
PSS: 5.0
ECS: 5.01
AS3+: 5.1

Dry Braking 50-0 in feet, (Lower # is better):
PSS: 78.1 ft Winner
PS4S: 80.2
AS3+:80.4
ECS: 82.5

Wet Braking, 50-1 in feet, (Lower # is better):
AS3+: 106.9 ft Winner
ECS: 107.2
PS4s: 108.8
PSS: 111.9

Corner G-Force Dry (Higher is better)
AS3+: 0.93 Winner
PSS: 0.92
PS4S: 0.92
ECS: 0.89

Corner G-Force Wet (Higher is better:
ECS: 0.8 Winner
AS3+: 0.79
PSS: 0.78
PS4S: 0.78


PSS, PS4S, AS3plus, are all in the top 3. With AS3+ having a higher tread life warranty. On top of that are you really going to notice the difference between a 29.78 and 30.0 lap time? I guess if you're tracking you would care, but for most people the 3 Michelin tires are basically identical in performance based on these numbers. And you get better wet braking with AS3+ and better Corner G-Force too.
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      09-02-2017, 11:09 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r4dr View Post
245 is an awkward tire width because 35 is a bit short and 40 is a bit tall, from what I remember. Perhaps 235/40 is a better option or 255/35 but that might be a tough fit depending on the variables.

PS4S won't be fully available in 18" (or smaller) for a bit, they're launching 19" and up first because that's what most high-performance cars come with these days from the factory.
I previously had 255/35/18 without trouble. As was noted, these tires are marginally narrower and marginally taller. I tapped one wheel well and pushed the car through some hard corners (loading up that side specifically). I didn't hear or feel anything unusual and I don't see any marking on the tape to suggest tires are rubbing on the fender. I can get fingers between the strut/spring perch, etc.. Don't see any issues with this size on this car with this suspension. But that doesn't mean it will work for everyone. FWIW, I do appreciate that the newer tires are just a bit less harsh over bad pavement. With Bilsteins and 36-38 PSI in the front, rough pavement had been a little harsher than I prefer.
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      09-03-2017, 02:52 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyCar View Post
Why is everyone disregarding the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 Plus. They perform just as good as the PSS and PS4S, and better than the new Continental ECS. Look at these test results from tirerack.com, all tested using the same model car, I put them in order from best to worst in each category:

Ride Comfort (Higher # better):
PS4S: 7.79 Winner
AS3+:7.76
ECS: 7.51
PSS: 7.41

Noise Comfort (Higher # better):
PSS: 8.01 Winner
PS4S: 7.8
AS3+:7.58
ECS: 7.37

Handling (higher # better):
PSS: 8.85 Winner
PS4S:8.76
AS3+:8.47
ECS:8.42

Lap Time Dry, in seconds (Lower time is better):
PSS: 29.74 Winner
PS4S: 29.78
AS3+:30.00
ECS:30.4

Slalom Dry, in seconds (Lower is better):
PS4S: 4.91 Winner
PSS: 5.0
ECS: 5.01
AS3+: 5.1

Dry Braking 50-0 in feet, (Lower # is better):
PSS: 78.1 ft Winner
PS4S: 80.2
AS3+:80.4
ECS: 82.5

Wet Braking, 50-1 in feet, (Lower # is better):
AS3+: 106.9 ft Winner
ECS: 107.2
PS4s: 108.8
PSS: 111.9

Corner G-Force Dry (Higher is better)
AS3+: 0.93 Winner
PSS: 0.92
PS4S: 0.92
ECS: 0.89

Corner G-Force Wet (Higher is better:
ECS: 0.8 Winner
AS3+: 0.79
PSS: 0.78
PS4S: 0.78


PSS, PS4S, AS3plus, are all in the top 3. With AS3+ having a higher tread life warranty. On top of that are you really going to notice the difference between a 29.78 and 30.0 lap time? I guess if you're tracking you would care, but for most people the 3 Michelin tires are basically identical in performance based on these numbers. And you get better wet braking with AS3+ and better Corner G-Force too.

I think it's just tire snobbery for which I am one. I ride PSS and live in the southeast (Knoxville)where we occasionally get snow, ice and temps below freezing. I am a perfect candidate for AS3+ but reading the reviews on Tire Rack and seeing the YouTube videos makes me feel like I would regret that last tenth of a second if I didn't go with the PSS & now PS4S.

In reality, the AS3+ is the perfect tire for me because I spend 99% of my time doing city driving, I work from home, sit in the car rider line taking the kids to school and from time to time take the car up to the mountains for a routine drive. But the thought of a "passenger" tire on my rocket ship is enough to fuel my cognitive dissonance that I can't click that box and buy them because the reviews in Tire Rack showed someone with a Dodge Journey with them. A Dodge Journey!!! I can't put tires on my car that a Journey would use. I've just got to own the tire that the super cars wear because it just makes me feel that much more legit while I idle in the car rider line.

In reality, I am going to get either the AS3+ or the Pirelli Pzeros really soon and hope I still have enough street cred for the local coffee and cars meet coming up soon.
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      09-04-2017, 12:31 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volasko View Post
I'd be careful, I have 18" ET30, 9" Arc-8 in a square setup on my E90 (details in my garage) and had to return my PS4S in 245/40/R18 because they were way too tall and would rub like mad in the front. Going with PSS 245/35/R18 were perfect. The 40 sidewall is too tall even though in the wheel calculators it doesn't look "too" off.
245/40 is over half inch taller than stock. Not sure how whatever calculator you were using interprets "too" off but anything over 1/3" will likely rub once once you start running wider and/or lower offset wheels.
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      09-04-2017, 09:34 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3002 tii View Post
245/40 is over half inch taller than stock. Not sure how whatever calculator you were using interprets "too" off but anything over 1/3" will likely rub once once you start running wider and/or lower offset wheels.
See sig...barely touches the front fender liner and thats only at full lock when going in reverse.
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      09-04-2017, 09:51 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by FCobra94 View Post
See sig...barely touches the front fender liner and thats only at full lock when going in reverse.
Clearly it's YMMV but it's common knowledge that setup can rub when suspension compresses especially if you're lowered.
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      09-04-2017, 11:04 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLIEN View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyCar View Post
Why is everyone disregarding the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 Plus. They perform just as good as the PSS and PS4S, and better than the new Continental ECS. Look at these test results from tirerack.com, all tested using the same model car, I put them in order from best to worst in each category:

Ride Comfort (Higher # better):
PS4S: 7.79 Winner
AS3+:7.76
ECS: 7.51
PSS: 7.41

Noise Comfort (Higher # better):
PSS: 8.01 Winner
PS4S: 7.8
AS3+:7.58
ECS: 7.37

Handling (higher # better):
PSS: 8.85 Winner
PS4S:8.76
AS3+:8.47
ECS:8.42

Lap Time Dry, in seconds (Lower time is better):
PSS: 29.74 Winner
PS4S: 29.78
AS3+:30.00
ECS:30.4

Slalom Dry, in seconds (Lower is better):
PS4S: 4.91 Winner
PSS: 5.0
ECS: 5.01
AS3+: 5.1

Dry Braking 50-0 in feet, (Lower # is better):
PSS: 78.1 ft Winner
PS4S: 80.2
AS3+:80.4
ECS: 82.5

Wet Braking, 50-1 in feet, (Lower # is better):
AS3+: 106.9 ft Winner
ECS: 107.2
PS4s: 108.8
PSS: 111.9

Corner G-Force Dry (Higher is better)
AS3+: 0.93 Winner
PSS: 0.92
PS4S: 0.92
ECS: 0.89

Corner G-Force Wet (Higher is better:
ECS: 0.8 Winner
AS3+: 0.79
PSS: 0.78
PS4S: 0.78


PSS, PS4S, AS3plus, are all in the top 3. With AS3+ having a higher tread life warranty. On top of that are you really going to notice the difference between a 29.78 and 30.0 lap time? I guess if you're tracking you would care, but for most people the 3 Michelin tires are basically identical in performance based on these numbers. And you get better wet braking with AS3+ and better Corner G-Force too.

I think it's just tire snobbery for which I am one. I ride PSS and live in the southeast (Knoxville)where we occasionally get snow, ice and temps below freezing. I am a perfect candidate for AS3+ but reading the reviews on Tire Rack and seeing the YouTube videos makes me feel like I would regret that last tenth of a second if I didn't go with the PSS & now PS4S.

In reality, the AS3+ is the perfect tire for me because I spend 99% of my time doing city driving, I work from home, sit in the car rider line taking the kids to school and from time to time take the car up to the mountains for a routine drive. But the thought of a "passenger" tire on my rocket ship is enough to fuel my cognitive dissonance that I can't click that box and buy them because the reviews in Tire Rack showed someone with a Dodge Journey with them. A Dodge Journey!!! I can't put tires on my car that a Journey would use. I've just got to own the tire that the super cars wear because it just makes me feel that much more legit while I idle in the car rider line.

In reality, I am going to get either the AS3+ or the Pirelli Pzeros really soon and hope I still have enough street cred for the local coffee and cars meet coming up soon.
I over looked this set of questions/comments.

I too am a self admitted tire snob. I live in the Chicago area and learned long ago that winter tires are FANTASTIC. So, I always have winter wheels and tires for my cars. Since I do that, I tend to buy really good summer only tires, PSS, and now PS4S fall into that bucket.

If I lived in an area that didn't have as much snow -and freezing rain- I'd probably go with an aggressive all season tire and then the AS3 would be high on the list!!
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      09-10-2017, 04:12 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyCar View Post
Why is everyone disregarding the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 Plus. They perform just as good as the PSS and PS4S, and better than the new Continental ECS. Look at these test results from tirerack.com, all tested using the same model car, I put them in order from best to worst in each category:

Ride Comfort (Higher # better):
PS4S: 7.79 Winner
AS3+:7.76
ECS: 7.51
PSS: 7.41

Noise Comfort (Higher # better):
PSS: 8.01 Winner
PS4S: 7.8
AS3+:7.58
ECS: 7.37

Handling (higher # better):
PSS: 8.85 Winner
PS4S:8.76
AS3+:8.47
ECS:8.42

Lap Time Dry, in seconds (Lower time is better):
PSS: 29.74 Winner
PS4S: 29.78
AS3+:30.00
ECS:30.4
Have a link to this test? Would like to read. I already bought another set of PSS, but really confused how an all-season is keeping up...
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