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      12-13-2010, 10:07 AM   #1
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Changed Wheels/Tires..Vibration at 75mph

I just took some 19" m3 wheels off my e90 and replaced with TSW 18" and new tires. Had the Alighnment done, ballance and car is smooth as can be until i reach 75 mph. I know I need new rotors up front as the wheel vibrates on heavy braking but the car vibrates, not the wheel, at 75 mph.

I had to buy some hub centric rings for the TSW wheels and I got them from TSW but I am trying to figure out since I had all the work done if there is something really wrong with my suspension set up, if its the new wheels, or if replacing the rotors is going to make it all right.

I am going to contact TSW about the vibration but I was wondering if anyone here had any ideas....
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Last edited by M3 Eater; 12-13-2010 at 09:18 PM.
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      12-13-2010, 08:05 PM   #2
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You might have killed the front control arm bushings, but then your steering wheel would vibrate at 75.
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      12-13-2010, 08:30 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Eater View Post
I just took some 19" m3 wheels off my e90 and replaced with TSW 18" and new tires. Had the Alighnment done, ballance and car is smooth as can be until i reach 75 mph. I know I need new rotors up front as the wheel vibrates on heavy braking but the car vibrates, not the wheel, at 75 mph.

I had to buy some hub centric rings for the TSW wheels and I got them from TSW but I am trying to figure out since I had all the work done if there is something really wrong with my suspension set up, if its the new wheels, or if replacing the rotors is going to make it all right.

I am going to contact TSW about the vibration but I was wondering if anyone hear had any ideas....
Loosen the nuts on the wheels that require the hub centric rings. Then tighten it to ~1/2 the required torque (45 ft-lbs) in a star pattern while the wheel is unloaded. then tighten to 3/4 the required torque (65 ft-lbs) in the same star pattern. Then lower the car until the tires touch the ground, tighten to 88 ft-lbs in the same star pattern, then lower the car all the way and double check and see if the lug nuts are tightened to 88 ft-lbs. Check all wheels that require hub centric rings.

If the vibration continues, then have the wheel/tire shop re-balance the wheel with the hub centric rings on. If the vibration goes away, replace the hub centric ring with higher grade, better hub centric rings, or continue to tighten the wheels in the above described fashion.

The problem is either the hub centric rings or the wheels are out of balance.
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      12-13-2010, 08:48 PM   #4
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My bet is the rotors. At <75mph they're probably not pushing against the pads in a forceful enough manner and no vibration is apparent. As you get faster it probably becomes more forceful and therefore more evident. Warped rotors do cause vibration issues because the pads are still close enough to the rotors to touch.
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      12-13-2010, 09:17 PM   #5
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had it checked today... right rear had been counter balanced.... but not balanced. Haven't been up to speed yet but I won't be surprised if the rotors once the car reaches speed give a little vibration to the car. Hopefully my service warranty will pick up the warped rotors...If not I have seen kits on sale for less than200$ for drilled/slotted, carbon pads, and sensors. Hate to have new wheels cause a high speed vibration. Car used to run solid up to 150.
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      12-14-2010, 09:43 AM   #6
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had it ballanced at work.... bad idea

I tried to save some money and support the organization that i work for and it backfired. Not only did they not do a good job, but how do I tell the guy that squeezed me in late on a Friday for service that his balance guy sucks?

Thats whorable for sales/service relations... my advice. Pay to have the work done by someone you don't know. That way when the mess it up, you don't feel bad when you take it back to tell them they SUCK! I am embarrased for the service department where I work.... so bad that I am not even going to ask for my money back. I told myself that if i took it to the discount tire store and had it checked and found out it was off, that I was going to bring the bill and ask for a refund. I was hoping that it was something complicated, but it was simple. They did a quick job and slapped a few wheel weights on in addition to the ones that were already there instead of cleaning of the wheel and starting from scratch. It happens all the time but you expect the organization to look out for its own... but instead, Im the guy that they can rush through service to make room for the folks that pay full price. PM me to find out where not to bring your car for service in Wendell, North Carolina. I would post it here but I need to keep my job until after Christmas and management googles their name every day to see where they are and whats being said about them. Im sure this would come up first if their name and service review was Googled.
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      12-16-2010, 07:57 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
Loosen the nuts on the wheels that require the hub centric rings. Then tighten it to ~1/2 the required torque (45 ft-lbs) in a star pattern while the wheel is unloaded. then tighten to 3/4 the required torque (65 ft-lbs) in the same star pattern. Then lower the car until the tires touch the ground, tighten to 88 ft-lbs in the same star pattern, then lower the car all the way and double check and see if the lug nuts are tightened to 88 ft-lbs. Check all wheels that require hub centric rings.

If the vibration continues, then have the wheel/tire shop re-balance the wheel with the hub centric rings on. If the vibration goes away, replace the hub centric ring with higher grade, better hub centric rings, or continue to tighten the wheels in the above described fashion.

The problem is either the hub centric rings or the wheels are out of balance.
This is right on the money.
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      12-16-2010, 07:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Eater View Post
I tried to save some money and support the organization that i work for and it backfired. Not only did they not do a good job, but how do I tell the guy that squeezed me in late on a Friday for service that his balance guy sucks?

Thats whorable for sales/service relations... my advice. Pay to have the work done by someone you don't know. That way when the mess it up, you don't feel bad when you take it back to tell them they SUCK! I am embarrased for the service department where I work.... so bad that I am not even going to ask for my money back. I told myself that if i took it to the discount tire store and had it checked and found out it was off, that I was going to bring the bill and ask for a refund. I was hoping that it was something complicated, but it was simple. They did a quick job and slapped a few wheel weights on in addition to the ones that were already there instead of cleaning of the wheel and starting from scratch. It happens all the time but you expect the organization to look out for its own... but instead, Im the guy that they can rush through service to make room for the folks that pay full price. PM me to find out where not to bring your car for service in Wendell, North Carolina. I would post it here but I need to keep my job until after Christmas and management googles their name every day to see where they are and whats being said about them. Im sure this would come up first if their name and service review was Googled.
dude, just go back to them and be like, hey it doesnt seem right can you throw it on the machine again and re-test it. I use to work as a sales guy at a honda dealer, and the mechanics (who all drove JDM) would complain about even touching my car, so i know how you feel. Get to know one of the service advisors, buy him lunch, be his best friend and they will hook you up all the time.
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      12-16-2010, 09:25 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghines1279 View Post
dude, just go back to them and be like, hey it doesnt seem right can you throw it on the machine again and re-test it. I use to work as a sales guy at a honda dealer, and the mechanics (who all drove JDM) would complain about even touching my car, so i know how you feel. Get to know one of the service advisors, buy him lunch, be his best friend and they will hook you up all the time.
+10000

I can vouch for this method. I work at a car dealership. (don't sell cars though)
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      12-16-2010, 10:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Eater View Post
I tried to save some money and support the organization that i work for and it backfired. Not only did they not do a good job, but how do I tell the guy that squeezed me in late on a Friday for service that his balance guy sucks?

Thats whorable for sales/service relations... my advice. Pay to have the work done by someone you don't know. That way when the mess it up, you don't feel bad when you take it back to tell them they SUCK! I am embarrased for the service department where I work.... so bad that I am not even going to ask for my money back. I told myself that if i took it to the discount tire store and had it checked and found out it was off, that I was going to bring the bill and ask for a refund. I was hoping that it was something complicated, but it was simple. They did a quick job and slapped a few wheel weights on in addition to the ones that were already there instead of cleaning of the wheel and starting from scratch. It happens all the time but you expect the organization to look out for its own... but instead, Im the guy that they can rush through service to make room for the folks that pay full price. PM me to find out where not to bring your car for service in Wendell, North Carolina. I would post it here but I need to keep my job until after Christmas and management googles their name every day to see where they are and whats being said about them. Im sure this would come up first if their name and service review was Googled.
Really?
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      12-22-2010, 11:27 AM   #11
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ah.. I was in a bad mood when i spelled horrible and had no spell check... sorry.

So, I took it back to discount tire. They have me on life time balance now and they said I have cheap tires... They came on the wheels and they were new, I figured I could get started on them and upgrade soon. I am not sure if they will entertain the idea of the start pattern install but that makes so much sense. They found a rear tire out of balance, they fixed it and the only issue was the rotors. I took it to BMW, they let half the air out of my tires and changed the brakes (pads and sensors) no rotors! Wheel is slowly starting to shake less on heavy braking, but the car is vibrating again at 70-80mph. They told me that the cheap tires had a lot of movement?? not sure if they are sliding around on the wheel at speed but that would be bad. (Nankang tires). I am so disappointed since I have spent so much time and money on this already. Can anyone recommend a good, dependable, affordable option, tire wise? I can't see making the car pull any harder until the damn thing stop shaking the bolts loose.
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      12-23-2010, 02:41 PM   #12
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reviewed the wheel centers..

pull the wheels off, replaced using the above method and the shimmy up front at 45-55 was gone. Wheel is solid now but there is still a vibration that shakes the passenger headrest at 75 and it rolls in and out. So smooth for 10 secs then a steady increase of vibration for 5-10sec to an annoying level then it stops, and like clock work with the cruise control on.... it comes back 10 secs later. I tried putting more air in the rear tires and then less air. More air seems to reduce the overall vibration but the timing on it is scary. Its almost like there is a ball in the right rear and when its in line rolling around in there everything is fine, and then is starts to lose its sync until its opposite the weights on the wheel, then it slowly syncs up again. I know it sound crazy... buy my car payment says I am paying for the ULTIMATE DRIVING MACHINE. Suck that I bring it to the dealer and they jack it up. Now I am working at the dealership that did the work so I aint going to make any friends bitching about the service department. : (
Any ideas what would cause that rolling in and out vibration??
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      12-23-2010, 03:56 PM   #13
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Do you have another set of wheels/tires?

I still think the problem stems from the hub-centric rings. Are they plastic or brass/aluminum/metal?
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      12-26-2010, 12:37 AM   #14
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they appear to be aluminum.
Very light metal, like I could bend them if I tried but they don't bend. Anyway, took off the wheels and saw that there is a beveled edge on one side of the ring that matches up well with the wheel!
I turned all the rings so they fit that way and actually taped the two fronts in place so there was no chance for them to get cockeyed as I put them on. So set rears in the wheels, then slid on, then taped fronts in the wheels and then slid on. First test drive shows no vibration.
Seems like the rings need to sit flush in the wheel, not flush on the hub. I actually put a thin piece of packing tape in the wheel, set the ring on top of the layer of tape so it didn't have any space to spin, then taped it in place. I felt like it was spinning free of the wheel and syncing up from time to time so I wanted to keep the ring tight in place in the wheel. It seems to have worked and now I am wondering if there is some procedure that I wasn't aware of to hold the ring in place in the wheel. Seems like a thick layer of grease or something would hold it in place. I prey that this was the solution but I agree the rings are the cause because keeping them still, in place, inside the has made a world of difference. I am still running nankang tires.... they need to go! but at least I feel better about the wheels. One is ever so slightly bent and I can easily have it straightened but that didn't seem to be the problem.

The guys that balanced them said it would be a waste of money to have it straightened its so minor. Until my car rides 100% everything is under the microscope. The guys at Discount Tire would not balance the wheel with the rings in. He said that the horn he puts the wheel in is cone shaped and that it will damage the rings. If the rings are inside the wheels when they are balanced, how can the rings even bend?

Anyhow... wheel vibrations at 50 mph came back after the re-balance, gone after taping the rings in the wheel. Car shaking at 70 mph ever 10 secs... changed to the car vibrating the whole time at 70mph . After setting the rings in the rear wheels and then sliding the wheel on, vibration is gone!

More driving tomorrow.. I may pull off the rear and secure the rings in place in the back as well.
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      12-27-2010, 08:48 AM   #15
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ah,no major vibration at 70-80 but wheel shake now at 60?

I need to swap out the tires anyway so I think its going to be my next move. The rings appear to be the culprit though. Whenever I take the wheels on and off, the vibration seems to change. The rings came from TSW and were made for my model car. How do I find a better quality ring?
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      03-24-2011, 05:10 PM   #16
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Thanks for this thread. This exact thing just happened to me and the answer was waiting here. You guys rock!!!
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      12-15-2012, 07:04 PM   #17
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Is this a common issue wit the tsw hub rings?

Thanks..
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      02-28-2014, 02:46 AM   #18
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