E90Post
 


Extreme Power House
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > Regional Forums > UK > UK Technical Forum > Handling Problems



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-01-2011, 03:08 PM   #1
spandeli
First Lieutenant
Cyprus
6

 
spandeli's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW E92 320D M Sport Auto
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cyprus


Posts: 370
iTrader: (0)

Handling Problems

This is a kind of a repost.

I am still facing the same problems with my cars handling and it seems noone can help me fix that.

The saga started 2 months ago when i replaced by BridgeStone 18inch RF rears with a new set, same tyre size obviously.

The fronts were replaced last year with BS RF as well.

The guy who replaced the tyres performed an alighment setting to my car, since he found the tyres to be unevenly worn.

Well since replacing these tyres, my car has lost its stability on the road. It feels like its floating specially when cornering. The back of the car feels like its not following the steering.

Since then, the car has been taken to 3 differnet shock absorber tests and all were found to be good. Moreover ive taken my car to 4 different alighment centers, done everything possible, but the car still feels the same.

Ive already done 3000kms on the rears, and i still dont know what to do..

Ive took a BMW mechanic for a test drive whith me, he agreed that there is a problem with the cars steering and sharpness, but they cant find anything wrong with it.

I suspect a difective Bridgestone tyre set i bought.

Is there any chance?

Any thoughts of what can be wrong would be highly appreciated.

Im desperate
Appreciate 0
      01-01-2011, 03:12 PM   #2
qtrlifecrisis
Scenic Artist
United_States
3

 
Drives: 08 BMW 335i
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Burbank, SoCal


Posts: 323
iTrader: (1)

could be a defective set. being that our cars have staggered wheels we can't switch the front and rears. have you tried contacting bridgestone or asking the shop if they're willing to swap another set for you?
__________________
E90 / / /M3 - JzB - 6MT - Speed Cloth - Slick Top - No Nav - KW Variant 3 - UUC Exhaust - AFE Intake
Appreciate 0
      01-01-2011, 03:36 PM   #3
Dackelone
Moderator
Germany
656

 
Dackelone's Avatar
 
Drives: 135i Silber mit/Rot 6MT N54
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bayern, Germany


Posts: 16,574
iTrader: (1)

Have you tried moving the rear wheels to the front and vice versa? Then go for a road test. Maybe it is your tires?

When you say you had three more alignments done... did you ever go to a BMW dealership? its possible an indo shop just doesn't have the latest alignment machine to check for toe and camber and also bump-steer. It sounds like that is what you mean by handling. Does the back end step out when you go over bumps?

Dackel
Appreciate 0
      01-01-2011, 03:52 PM   #4
spandeli
First Lieutenant
Cyprus
6

 
spandeli's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW E92 320D M Sport Auto
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cyprus


Posts: 370
iTrader: (0)

SloMaroZ, No i havent contacted Bridgestone yet, cause i was a bit sceptical, but im pretty sure that they will give me every possible excuse abd denials, in order to avoid giving me another set for a test.

Dackelone, there is no way you can swap fornt and rears due to the size difference. But the latest alighment i did was yesterday in the center that BMW CY takes all their cars for alighment, and it is equipped with the latest software and hardware. They also spotted a problem with my cars handling before and after the alighmnet test, but they said it might my a steering wheel problem. Then i went to my friend who owns a BMW specialist garage and said, if it was a problem with my steering wheel, i would have get an error code, which is true. But he did an OBD test and found thet despite i dont have any errors, my steering software has to be upgraded, which we both dont think its an issue. And no the back end doesnt step out when i go over bumps
Appreciate 0
      01-03-2011, 08:34 PM   #5
Dackelone
Moderator
Germany
656

 
Dackelone's Avatar
 
Drives: 135i Silber mit/Rot 6MT N54
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bayern, Germany


Posts: 16,574
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by spandeli View Post
SloMaroZ,
...Dackelone, there is no way you can swap fornt and rears due to the size difference...

That is right! Duh! My mind must be stuck in winter square setup that I run! lol

Do you have access to another set of whees/tires to "test" on your car?

Maybe double check all the suspension bolts that that are tight? ike the rear subframe bolts. Just a guess though.

Good Luck,
Dackel
Appreciate 0
      01-03-2011, 09:01 PM   #6
qtrlifecrisis
Scenic Artist
United_States
3

 
Drives: 08 BMW 335i
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Burbank, SoCal


Posts: 323
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
That is right! Duh! My mind must be stuck in winter square setup that I run! lol

Do you have access to another set of whees/tires to "test" on your car?

Maybe double check all the suspension bolts that that are tight? ike the rear subframe bolts. Just a guess though.

Good Luck,
Dackel
thats a great idea. perhaps you can find a board member with a set you can try, or the dealer might even have another set they can try.
__________________
E90 / / /M3 - JzB - 6MT - Speed Cloth - Slick Top - No Nav - KW Variant 3 - UUC Exhaust - AFE Intake
Appreciate 0
      01-04-2011, 04:18 AM   #7
Sooperdooperoofer
The older I get, the faster I was
Ireland
1

 
Drives: 320d SE x2 & E21 323i 2door
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Donegal


Posts: 48
iTrader: (0)

Get the alignment checked by someone with a KDS system, car aligned with weights to get the wheel arch a specific height from the ramp before being re-aligned to factory settings, it costs alot but believe me its worth it, had it done on my old e46 330d after getting suspension done, made it feel like a new car from the factory!
Appreciate 0
      01-04-2011, 06:43 AM   #8
Dackelone
Moderator
Germany
656

 
Dackelone's Avatar
 
Drives: 135i Silber mit/Rot 6MT N54
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bayern, Germany


Posts: 16,574
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by spandeli View Post
This is a kind of a repost.

I am still facing the same problems with my cars handling and it seems noone can help me fix that.

The saga started 2 months ago when i replaced by BridgeStone 18inch RF rears with a new set, same tyre size obviously.

The fronts were replaced last year with BS RF as well.

I have a question for you regarding these tires.

Do they have the RSC (run flat) marking on the sidewall?

Do they also have a STAR logo on the sidewall too? The star means that tire meets BMW standards for ride and performance. It is possibe that they sold you the normal non BMW runflat tires.

And I am just curious... but these tires are speed rated right>? ZR's?

Dackel
Appreciate 0
      01-05-2011, 05:22 AM   #9
spandeli
First Lieutenant
Cyprus
6

 
spandeli's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW E92 320D M Sport Auto
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cyprus


Posts: 370
iTrader: (0)

Dackel,

i think ive got the correct tires fitted on the car. I will just make sure this afternnon when i get back home.

my friend who owns an E93 volunteered to offer me his tyres and wheels to compare. Luckily he has got BS Runflats as well.
Appreciate 0
      01-05-2011, 05:32 AM   #10
335diesel
Brigadier General
United Kingdom
56

 
335diesel's Avatar
 
Drives: 335d Touring
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cornwall


Posts: 4,009
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
KDS is expensive. I'd look for someone that does Hunter laser alignment. A fraction of the cost and 95% as good. I was surprised how out of line my wheels were both for camber and toe. Cost me about 55.

I got mine done because my rear tyres wore down stupidly quickly on the inner edges.
__________________


E91 335d SE Touring

Also Land Rover Puma Defender 110 XS station wagon
Appreciate 0
      01-05-2011, 07:00 AM   #11
HighlandPete
Brigadier General
50

 
Drives: BMW F11 535i Touring
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Scotland, Highland Region


Posts: 4,559
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by spandeli View Post
This is a kind of a repost.

I am still facing the same problems with my cars handling and it seems noone can help me fix that.

The saga started 2 months ago when i replaced by BridgeStone 18inch RF rears with a new set, same tyre size obviously.

The fronts were replaced last year with BS RF as well.

The guy who replaced the tyres performed an alighment setting to my car, since he found the tyres to be unevenly worn.
I'd say it's still alignment, as the original setup probably would wear the tyres unevenly. Some shops know how BMW tyres typically wear. Not the first time I've heard this "had the car aligned due to uneven wear", and then a nightmare. Need to get back to the correct settings.

The other possible factor is some wear. Static alignments can mask wear, and then dynamically you are way off settings.

It's one reason I'd never have an alignment the same visit as fitting tyres, I need to feel the car 'after' a tyre change to know if a tyre change has changed the chassis. (Cause and effect).

HighlandPete
Appreciate 0
      01-05-2011, 05:06 PM   #12
m1bjr
LSD - No, you're not seeing things
United Kingdom
37

 
m1bjr's Avatar
 
Drives: RS250 CUP
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Somerset UK


Posts: 3,313
iTrader: (4)

Send a message via MSN to m1bjr
Dont get hung up on this Hunter crap.
Im guessing it always gets a mention as its the brand found in a BMW dealer.

It's just a brand of calibration tool like any other.
So long as they have the right targets dialled in it should be fine.

The guy using it is what matters
__________________
Appreciate 0
      01-05-2011, 07:50 PM   #13
Sooperdooperoofer
The older I get, the faster I was
Ireland
1

 
Drives: 320d SE x2 & E21 323i 2door
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Donegal


Posts: 48
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by m1bjr View Post
Dont get hung up on this Hunter crap.
Im guessing it always gets a mention as its the brand found in a BMW dealer.

It's just a brand of calibration tool like any other.
So long as they have the right targets dialled in it should be fine.

The guy using it is what matters
Have you seen the set up and work that goes into the Hunter/KDS setup, I've had numerous fitters tinker with my old E46 and they all made a cock of it, got it aligned on a KDS rig and it was sorted instantly. i find that the garage that spends the dough on this equipment knows how to use it where as alot of the generic tyre centres have some lazy arse that couldn't care less about your car and near enough is good enough. it should be spot on or nothin!!
__________________
LCI 320d SE, M star 18" alloys, Msport bumpers and 700+miles per week
Appreciate 0
      01-06-2011, 07:57 AM   #14
HighlandPete
Brigadier General
50

 
Drives: BMW F11 535i Touring
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Scotland, Highland Region


Posts: 4,559
iTrader: (0)

Hunter, Beissbarth... it is still the operator skills and understanding of the cars he works on. The amount of readouts I see with a 'good enough' thrustline, rather than 0.0, and we wonder why cars don't track straight.

HighlandPete
Appreciate 0
      01-06-2011, 02:07 PM   #15
spandeli
First Lieutenant
Cyprus
6

 
spandeli's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW E92 320D M Sport Auto
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cyprus


Posts: 370
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
I have a question for you regarding these tires.

Do they have the RSC (run flat) marking on the sidewall?

Do they also have a STAR logo on the sidewall too? The star means that tire meets BMW standards for ride and performance. It is possibe that they sold you the normal non BMW runflat tires.

And I am just curious... but these tires are speed rated right>? ZR's?

Dackel
Dackel,

Yes my Bridgestone do have the star logo after the RE050A*, the RSC, Runflat and its 255/35/18 W


More than likely tomorrow my car will be taken to another specialist that ive heard so many good words, hopefully he will spot whats wrong
Appreciate 0
      01-06-2011, 06:43 PM   #16
m1bjr
LSD - No, you're not seeing things
United Kingdom
37

 
m1bjr's Avatar
 
Drives: RS250 CUP
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Somerset UK


Posts: 3,313
iTrader: (4)

Send a message via MSN to m1bjr
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sooperdooperoofer View Post
Have you seen the set up and work that goes into the Hunter/KDS setup, I've had numerous fitters tinker with my old E46 and they all made a cock of it, got it aligned on a KDS rig and it was sorted instantly. i find that the garage that spends the dough on this equipment knows how to use it where as alot of the generic tyre centres have some lazy arse that couldn't care less about your car and near enough is good enough. it should be spot on or nothin!!
Yup.
And 'tinkering' with suspension has been something of a hobby of mine in itself.
On the S2000 I sold recently it was my main focus. Thats a far more adjustable car 'out of the box' than a 3'er.

Have also done corner weighting, weighting for driver and loadout - played with most of it.

If you ever get to watch a real expert suspension tuner at work, and I dont just mean a BMW tech, take the opportunity as the skills are quite rare.
Wheels Inmotion (Tony), DMS (Dixon) or Centre Gravity (Chris) are some of the best out there.
All have substantial experience with racecar setups too.
Chris is particularly good at 'training' a customer

I totally agree about accuracy, and was the point I also made above.
A lot of new kit is self calibrating, but before that it was a lottery.
So many times I have seen results where wheel runout checks are not even done.
And without that the whole process is a nonsense. Calibrating instuments is what I do for a living btw.
__________________

Last edited by m1bjr; 01-06-2011 at 06:50 PM.
Appreciate 0
      01-06-2011, 08:25 PM   #17
Sooperdooperoofer
The older I get, the faster I was
Ireland
1

 
Drives: 320d SE x2 & E21 323i 2door
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Donegal


Posts: 48
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by m1bjr View Post

If you ever get to watch a real expert suspension tuner at work, and I dont just mean a BMW tech, take the opportunity as the skills are quite rare.
Wheels Inmotion (Tony), DMS (Dixon) or Centre Gravity (Chris) are some of the best out there.
All have substantial experience with racecar setups too.
Chris is particularly good at 'training' a customer

I totally agree about accuracy, and was the point I also made above.
A lot of new kit is self calibrating, but before that it was a lottery.
So many times I have seen results where wheel runout checks are not even done.
And without that the whole process is a nonsense. Calibrating instuments is what I do for a living btw.
I hear ya but...

I rarely head for a main stealers for anythin,(have a well kitted garage for working on company vehicles and track car, complete with 2 post lift, tyre changer and wheel balancer) Let alone a suspension tune up thats not the reason i named KDS, I wasn't running down or bummimg up any particular system just mearly naming a brand that from my experiance could most likely be found at a specialist alignment centre and most of all likely to sort the dog tracking or thrust angle problem.
__________________
LCI 320d SE, M star 18" alloys, Msport bumpers and 700+miles per week
Appreciate 0
      01-12-2011, 02:35 PM   #18
spandeli
First Lieutenant
Cyprus
6

 
spandeli's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW E92 320D M Sport Auto
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cyprus


Posts: 370
iTrader: (0)

Some updates,
my car is in the dealers garage, 3 days now, they are performing a general check. They performed a KDS check as well and they have found many many mistakes in the alighment. Ive seen the report, and i coul not believe what i was seeing. Plus i could not believe that the last alighment was performed by a BMW authorised shop.
Still though they need some further tests and they are gonna service the car, so its staying in for another day.
I just hope its only an aligmnet problem and nothing more than that, e.g defective tyres, or a suspect on my crossmember was a possibility.
Ill keep you updated.
Appreciate 0
      01-15-2011, 05:12 PM   #19
Sooperdooperoofer
The older I get, the faster I was
Ireland
1

 
Drives: 320d SE x2 & E21 323i 2door
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Donegal


Posts: 48
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by spandeli View Post
Some updates,
my car is in the dealers garage, 3 days now, they are performing a general check. They performed a KDS check as well and they have found many many mistakes in the alighment. Ive seen the report, and i coul not believe what i was seeing. Plus i could not believe that the last alighment was performed by a BMW authorised shop.
Still though they need some further tests and they are gonna service the car, so its staying in for another day.
I just hope its only an aligmnet problem and nothing more than that, e.g defective tyres, or a suspect on my crossmember was a possibility.
Ill keep you updated.
Well.... how did it go??
was it worth the money?
__________________
LCI 320d SE, M star 18" alloys, Msport bumpers and 700+miles per week
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2011, 02:19 AM   #20
spandeli
First Lieutenant
Cyprus
6

 
spandeli's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW E92 320D M Sport Auto
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cyprus


Posts: 370
iTrader: (0)

Finally, got the car yesterday, did not have time to pick it up earlier.

My first impressions are quite good, i think my car has got back what it was missing..

To be 100% sure though i will have to take it at highway speeds, but this wont happen for the next fue days as im really really busy.

But im pretty sure the problems are gone, and what pisses me off is that 4 checks the car was taken, one of them is a BMW authorised supplier of tyres and alighment testing centre, noone could spot the problem in the settings,

So the conclusion is, guy who changed the tyres and did the 1st aligment messed my car that bad, that noone after that could get the settings back to standard, apart from the KDS in the BMW Dealers garage.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2011, 05:24 AM   #21
Sooperdooperoofer
The older I get, the faster I was
Ireland
1

 
Drives: 320d SE x2 & E21 323i 2door
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Donegal


Posts: 48
iTrader: (0)

Keep us posted, hope it is the problem sorted which i suspect it will be, was the car far off the KDS specs??? did you get the printout?
__________________
LCI 320d SE, M star 18" alloys, Msport bumpers and 700+miles per week
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2011, 06:52 AM   #22
spandeli
First Lieutenant
Cyprus
6

 
spandeli's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW E92 320D M Sport Auto
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cyprus


Posts: 370
iTrader: (0)

did not get the printout, its on the managers desk, when i will visit the garage again, should be within the next couple of days, i will pick it up. Do you want me to post it?
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:25 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST