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      01-04-2011, 04:12 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwdinamo View Post
The M cars get averaged in. They also get more efficient each generation, like the 2012 M5 will be 25% more efficient.
and 100% less exciting......

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      01-04-2011, 04:19 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PJPHughes View Post
BMW needs to bring more diesels. As a 335d owner, I'd gladly drop down to a sport package equipped 320d (E91 please!) with a 6 speed manual. Maybe I'm a rare breed of BMW driver, but there's something to be said for diesel torque, 50mpg and 700 miles on the highway.

Then again, I do love me some 425 lb/ft!

Or bring the 530d Touring...not the ugly GT thing. Wagons aren't dead yet!
I could live with diesel really getting worried about the future of ///M.
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      01-04-2011, 04:21 PM   #25
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I have driven the 335d, it's sweet. Low end torque gives a real thump when hitting the go pedal. Quiet and smooth too.
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      01-04-2011, 04:22 PM   #26
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Hmm, one of my favourite offerings from BMW of recent times is the E90 320Si... with it's 4 cylinder engine

A 4 cylinder BMW built just to homologate a race car ---
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      01-04-2011, 04:44 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James T. Kirk View Post
As a non-tracking driver, I can assure you, it's not macho-ness that begs the cylinder question. It's the performance and feel.

As the technology improves, then so shall the performance. If BMW can make a 4-cylinder screamer that'll give me north of 300 lbs of torque in a superlight body, then fine. But until that day, I'll be sticking with my V8.

I'm even skeptical of the new M3 coming down the pike going back to an inline-6. It would have to give 100 more HP before I give up my V8, which by the way we can all easily supercharge to 525/600 HP if we wanted to.

For me, moving from my E46 M3 to the new E90 was a REVOLUTION in driving experience.
Yea but supercharging will cost you a arm and a leg. Its so easy to make big power with a turbo or turbo's. I think the new m twin turbo 6 will be a beast.
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      01-04-2011, 04:55 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by JB135MDCT View Post
Is it twin turbo I4 or Twin Scroll?

I say I6 1ers are keepers.
Hell Ya!!!!

Look at the v10 M5... Now a 8 tt also look at the M3.... I don't think they (BMW) thought ahead when they put that Monster straight 6 TT in that 135i...
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      01-04-2011, 05:00 PM   #29
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I love my D, that was BMW's first step towards fuel efficiency in the USA.

I'm sure BMW won't disappoint. It's not all about cutting the number of cylinders but also reducing weight and finding alternative lightweight materials to build cars with.
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      01-04-2011, 06:41 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LemonOne View Post
seems like you've been missing out.

Seriously, I hate when people brag about the number of cylinders in their cars.
Do you track your car? Does it really matter to you that much?
As a daily driver's car, it really doesn't matter unless you own a high performance sportscar.
On one hand, I agree. But in the US, we are power hungry. I doubt many people will go for 4 cylinders in the masses.
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      01-04-2011, 07:12 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LemonOne View Post
seems like you've been missing out.

Seriously, I hate when people brag about the number of cylinders in their cars.
Do you track your car? Does it really matter to you that much?
As a daily driver's car, it really doesn't matter unless you own a high performance sportscar.
I think you are missing a major point. Most BMW owner buy it for the marque not performance on track, which really isn't that impressive -less the M. If you want a track car buy a Lotus, Bmw for that is a copout. What percentage of BMW owner tracks their car more than 5 times a year. I will be surprised if figure is over 2%.

Marque is back by intangibles such as history and prestige and tangibles such as horse power, cylinders, 0-60, amenities, and other measurable quality to name a few. A BMW with 0-60 acceleration that of 4 cylinder Camry is death to the brand. BMW differentiate itself by athleticism and quality. Toyota through the years got the quality down, until recently. BMW out does Toyota in quality by using parts from rarer materials which usually adds weight which goes against efficiency (wood trim, thicker leather, more airbags, better plastic). So it has athleticism left but in awakening of environmental consciousness BMW is in a transition from pure performance to performance and green.

BMW is in a tough spot. I think it will do well if it can make the transition. If not BMW's profitability will decline in next 10 years.
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      01-04-2011, 08:20 PM   #32
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i say...

screw the federal government

the end!
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      01-04-2011, 08:46 PM   #33
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BMW will petition to reduce the length of a mile from 5280 feet to something less.
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      01-04-2011, 08:55 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1cleanm3 View Post
i say...

screw the federal government

the end!
Amen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmeloche View Post
BMW will petition to reduce the length of a mile from 5280 feet to something less.
LOL. Good call. Can't we just bomb some oil-producing country in the Middle East again (but REALLY do it this time)??


I went from 6.0L to 3.0L... what more do they want?!
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      01-04-2011, 11:35 PM   #35
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seems like there is a basic assumption in this thread that less cylinders will equal less power. i'd guess this assumption ends up being wrong.

the turbo 4 powerplants in question are going to, in general, make the same or more power as the powerplants they replace...and also get better fuel economy.
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      01-05-2011, 12:08 AM   #36
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Quote:
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This. Diesel is so much better than hybrid!
Agreed. I wish they bring the diesel 1 and 3 series models here. 123d M sport (5 door) would be kick ass daily driver.
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      01-05-2011, 03:10 AM   #37
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This will mark the beginning of the end for our M V8's I can see it now!

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      01-05-2011, 03:26 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jgcdude1 View Post
This will mark the beginning of the end for our M V8's I can see it now!

me too, i think im going to go cry. I love this engine so much
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      01-05-2011, 07:42 AM   #39
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My most fuel efficient BMW was really fun to drive - it was a 1991 4 cyl 318. At 138hp it was not a screamer but it was actually fun to drive at legal speeds. It was light, agile and strong (survived a collision with a deer). And it would go just about anywhere, even snow covered pathways (I swear officer there used to be a road here).

You actually had to think before pulling out to pass, but it still passed a Ford Orion pulling a trailer going uphill in the Alps! I had great fun in that car. It was cheap to operate and to maintain. It was an enthusiast's car. I think that we have lost some of that over the years.

I recognize that it is wasteful to burn so much oil rather than using a greater percentage of it for the production other products like plastics, lubricants and fabrics. But there is something really amazing about the way that an internal combustion engine behaves. The way that the power builds up. It is a rush.

Besides being from the largest exporter of oil to the US, Canadians should say thanks since oil royalties help to keep our deficits in check and hence pay for our universal health care.
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      01-05-2011, 08:35 AM   #40
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I don't think it's very hard at all to make a fleet average of 35 mpg.

Off the top of my head, you could get a crazy hypermilled hybrid in the fleet, just to offset the rest of them. Or, you could make the cars crazy efficient, and add a "sport mode" to the rest of the cars.

For example, you can get the 335i to have like 50 gallons highway with the right programming, then have a sport mode which gives you the regular power. (yeah nobody wants that, I'm just saying it's possible)

Those are just ideas off the top of my head, and I'm sure that with 1.6 billion invested, we don't have to worry about loosing any power.
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      01-05-2011, 10:36 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corb View Post
I don't think it's very hard at all to make a fleet average of 35 mpg.

Off the top of my head, you could get a crazy hypermilled hybrid in the fleet, just to offset the rest of them. Or, you could make the cars crazy efficient, and add a "sport mode" to the rest of the cars.

For example, you can get the 335i to have like 50 gallons highway with the right programming, then have a sport mode which gives you the regular power. (yeah nobody wants that, I'm just saying it's possible)

Those are just ideas off the top of my head, and I'm sure that with 1.6 billion invested, we don't have to worry about loosing any power.
I think you're vastly underestimating how difficult it is to make a fuel efficient car.
You won't get 50 mpg from a 335i unless you lop off half the cylinders and throw in an electric motor. Or you could put a diesel in it. That comes with it's own set of problems, mainly emissions related, but with the 335d BMW already proved it's manageable. It also proved it's possible to have a fuel efficient car that's as fun to drive and no more expensive than it's gasoline equivalent. So I think the future's looking bright.
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      01-05-2011, 10:55 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PJPHughes View Post
BMW needs to bring more diesels. As a 335d owner, I'd gladly drop down to a sport package equipped 320d (E91 please!) with a 6 speed manual. Maybe I'm a rare breed of BMW driver, but there's something to be said for diesel torque, 50mpg and 700+ miles on the highway.

Then again, I do love me some 425 lb/ft!

Or bring the 530d Touring...not the ugly GT thing. Wagons aren't dead yet!
Ditto this. My wife's X5 35d is a wonder. 19 mpg in pure street driving, 27 at a steady 75 on the flat Illinois interstates, in a car that weighs 5200 lbs.

I have a 128i convertible that does worse on street driving and about the same on the highway. I'd gladly trade it for a 123d if BMW made it available here and get 40+ mpg on the highway.

John C.
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      01-05-2011, 11:14 AM   #43
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I wonder how much additional efficiency could be squeezed out of a system that turns off half the cilinders when they are not needed. Chrysler used this successfully on the Hemi. I believe some of the predictions for future BMW's is they will use start stop systems too. I don't know how well that will work to keep the AC going down here in hotter than hell Houston.

Yup, screw the feds.
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      01-05-2011, 11:23 AM   #44
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Quote:
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I wonder how much additional efficiency could be squeezed out of a system that turns off half the cilinders when they are not needed. Chrysler used this successfully on the Hemi.
To put it plainly, almost none. My brother drives a 300c Hemi whenever he's in Europe, and it gets 15 mpg in mixed driving. I think he got it up to 21 or 22 on the highway once. That's what happens when you have a 5.7 liter engine. I've driven it too, and the transition from 4 to 8 cylinders is a bit jerky and noticeable. There's a delay almost akin to turbo lag. Granted this is the first model year 300c so there may have been improvements in recent years, but I doubt the system as a whole is good for anything more than 1 or 2 mpg, no matter how advanced it becomes.
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