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      04-28-2015, 11:56 PM   #1
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What's missing for an N54 to hit 10's?!

I've been on these forums for too long to hear about massive improvements in power gains, without any real improvements in 1/4 mile times (what's the record? Still in the 11's??)

That said, what is needed for our N54's to break into the 10's (or below)? Traction? Gearing? Less boost lag??? We are making incredible headway with this platform but I don't think we ever hear about developments being made to drop 1/4 mile times for the N54.

And since most of you are much more educated and seasoned than me in the 1/4 mile game, I'd appreciate hearing some of your comments or corrections (if I've missed the boat on previous conversations around this topic).

Last edited by sirdaft1; 04-29-2015 at 09:43 AM.
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      04-28-2015, 11:59 PM   #2
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      04-29-2015, 12:08 AM   #3
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I think 575whp should be enough for 10's so with upgraded hybrid turbo's and these new intake inlets it should hit those numbers with no problem and majority of the people that have them haven't hit the track yet
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      04-29-2015, 01:10 AM   #4
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These cars are more or less traction limited at +500who level. X-drive cars can definitely do it with easier launch than RWD. But the reliability of the AWD components at that power level is an issue that can't be solved easily.
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      04-29-2015, 06:24 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud9blue View Post
These cars are more or less traction limited at +500who level. X-drive cars can definitely do it with easier launch than RWD. But the reliability of the AWD components at that power level is an issue that can't be solved easily.
About the xdrive components, nah, that's never been proven.
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      04-29-2015, 07:39 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pits200
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Originally Posted by Cloud9blue View Post
These cars are more or less traction limited at +500who level. X-drive cars can definitely do it with easier launch than RWD. But the reliability of the AWD components at that power level is an issue that can't be solved easily.
About the xdrive components, nah, that's never been proven.
Shattered my front diff, half shaft and passenger side front axel on launch at the track....

Granted I don't know too many people that are pushing their xi as far as myself, but I'm pretty sure I found the breaking point
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      04-29-2015, 08:20 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Give_Em_The_DD View Post
Shattered my front diff, half shaft and passenger side front axel on launch at the track....

Granted I don't know too many people that are pushing their xi as far as myself, but I'm pretty sure I found the breaking point
Kinda off topic but as a 335xi owner aspiring to some good 1/4 mile times I am too curious...

What would it take to solve the drivetrain issues?
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      04-29-2015, 08:24 AM   #8
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From what I've seen, not many people know how to drive the car, from what I'm seeing from 60' times and most people are on street tires.
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      04-29-2015, 09:25 AM   #9
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OEM XI drivetrain is quite weak. Various components like what happened with Give_Em_The_DD's car will fail miserably after some solid launches.

Front differential is one common point of failure. To make it live you'd need to "invest" into making a stronger front diff with a machine shop, custom and stronger ring/pinion. You also have to upgrade all 4 axles and when all of that is taken care of the transfer case is next and good luck upgrading that.

We wish it wasn't the case but the reality of the matter is that N54 XI driveline is weak to take this car reliably into 10s at the drag strip. Even the cars hitting 11s start to have issues with repeated launches be it the transfer case or the front diff.
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      04-29-2015, 09:34 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proTUNING Freaks View Post
OEM XI drivetrain is quite weak. Various components like what happened with Give_Em_The_DD's car will fail miserably after some solid launches.

Front differential is one common point of failure. To make it live you'd need to "invest" into making a stronger front diff with a machine shop, custom and stronger ring/pinion. You also have to upgrade all 4 axles and when all of that is taken care of the transfer case is next and good luck upgrading that.

We wish it wasn't the case but the reality of the matter is that N54 XI driveline is weak to take this car reliably into 10s at the drag strip. Even the cars hitting 11s start to have issues with repeated launches be it the transfer case or the front diff.
That being said, would the RWD platform be a better starting point? And if so, what could be done about traction issues? Wider tires, upgraded axles? What else?
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      04-29-2015, 09:34 AM   #11
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Power isn't the issues. Cuttting a low ET is all about the launch. Until someone takes the time to properly set up their car for the strip we'll continue to see a whole bunch of 11-12 sec 335i.
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      04-29-2015, 09:38 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirdaft1 View Post
That being said, would the RWD platform be a better starting point? And if so, what could be done about traction issues? Wider tires, upgraded axles? What else?
Axles, tires, diff locked down, LSD, new driveshaft,double adjustable suspension (need to be able adjust compression and rebound seperatly), and a whole lot of strip time to dail it in.
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      04-29-2015, 09:48 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirdaft1 View Post
That being said, would the RWD platform be a better starting point? And if so, what could be done about traction issues? Wider tires, upgraded axles? What else?
RWD is cheaper. 6MT RWD is cheapest but unless you consult with someone that knows what they're doing to get the car set up to squat and take off properly given independent rear suspension don't kid yourself that if its your first rodeo that you'll figure it out quickly or at a budget. You'll quickly realize you're stuck in 11s at best with either a 6AT tranny that's slipping, going through a few clutches on a 6MT car (unless you go with a twin disk that can be slipped) or going through axles unless you build them. On a 6MT you'll also quickly realize the gearbox isn't friendly at all to full power shifts from 1st to 2nd gear and it WILL lock you out of 2nd gear when trying to do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abacus38 View Post
Power isn't the issues. Cuttting a low ET is all about the launch. Until someone takes the time to properly set up their car for the strip we'll continue to see a whole bunch of 11-12 sec 335i.
We only have about 8 years of tuning day in day out with this platform and a large part of that has been spent at the drag strip with our own shop cars and many customer cars. Everything is an issue, from independent rear suspension to various soft bushings to improper tires people are running at the strip, tire pressures, alignment, etc etc tons of details. Having said that, let's say you set it all up and actually take the time to get the car to move off the line properly without a hint of wheel hop. The sheer stress of repeated launches will make the said driveline OEM XI components fail after some use and you can throw reliability out the window.

Now, anything can be done but when you're talking low volume builds the cost skyrockets and you certainly don't want to end up being that lone dreamer out there burning through your account just to be beat at the strip by way cheaper to build platforms or worse keep pouring money into it only to be stuck in the same place numbers wise, for years.

Take it for what its worth, this platform is simply doomed at the drag strip and its coming to you from someone that has put in more than enough time and money trying to find a way to get it to run consistently fast at the drag strip while trying to make it drive like a BMW still If you remove IRS and start cutting rear fenders building driveline components $$$ adds up extremely quickly that you realize that this platform just doesn't make sense to push for an average person at the dragstrip into 10s let alone beyond that.

Straight line acceleration and roll-on action with RWD is where its at for the N54 unfortunately for most people.
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      04-29-2015, 09:55 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abacus38 View Post
Axles, tires, diff locked down, LSD, new driveshaft,double adjustable suspension (need to be able adjust compression and rebound seperatly), and a whole lot of strip time to dail it in.
All of that plus build the tranny, multiple clutches, tuning with boost by gear, countless days at the drag strip and add some body work to it to fit a tall enough wide enough proper tire out back. By the time you think you're getting close you'll be so far into it that neither you'll enjoy looking at your car, driving it or looking at your bank account let alone time spent trying to make something happen that you shouldn't have really bothered with to begin with on this platform to get that high 10sec pass when all the stars align if they ever do.

But don't take our word for it
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      04-29-2015, 10:03 AM   #15
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Owning a bmw(n54) and expecting it to hit 10s with 10g or even 15g will not happen. Enjoy the car for what it is. Yes it's a very fun highway car and a blast to drive around corners and such, leave it just for that and move on.
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      04-29-2015, 10:14 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proTUNING Freaks View Post
All of that plus build the tranny, multiple clutches, tuning with boost by gear, countless days at the drag strip and add some body work to it to fit a tall enough wide enough proper tire out back. By the time you think you're getting close you'll be so far into it that neither you'll enjoy looking at your car, driving it or looking at your bank account let alone time spent trying to make something happen that you shouldn't have really bothered with to begin with on this platform to get that high 10sec pass when all the stars align if they ever do.

But don't take our word for it
I beg to differ especially when it comes to to the RWD 335i. There's nothing magically about this car. There's a whole bunch of other IRS cars cars out running tens with ease. Even the FWD Hondas are doing it with ease. Our only problem is are lack fueling and tuning option available. We no longer have any excuses of why we only have 4 car in the tens(Including are M3 bros).
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      04-29-2015, 10:18 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abacus38 View Post
I beg to differ especially when it comes to to the RWD 335i. There's nothing magically about this car. There's a whole bunch of other IRS cars cars out running tens with ease. Even the FWD Hondas are doing it with ease. Our only problem is are lack fueling and tuning option available. We no longer have any excuses of why we only have 4 car in the tens(Including are M3 bros).
good luck!
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      04-29-2015, 11:11 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtswole
From what I've seen, not many people know how to drive the car, from what I'm seeing from 60' times and most people are on street tires.
+1. Put a proper drag tire on the rear, set up the suspension for launching, then cross your fingers and as long as nothing in the driveline breaks, should be able to hit tens without any crazy hp numbers.

I really think that most people just would not be happy with daily driving their Bmws if they were appropriately set up for the drag strip - it is a very different feel.
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      04-29-2015, 01:56 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proTUNING Freaks View Post
OEM XI drivetrain is quite weak. Various components like what happened with Give_Em_The_DD's car will fail miserably after some solid launches.

Front differential is one common point of failure. To make it live you'd need to "invest" into making a stronger front diff with a machine shop, custom and stronger ring/pinion. You also have to upgrade all 4 axles and when all of that is taken care of the transfer case is next and good luck upgrading that.

We wish it wasn't the case but the reality of the matter is that N54 XI driveline is weak to take this car reliably into 10s at the drag strip. Even the cars hitting 11s start to have issues with repeated launches be it the transfer case or the front diff.
+1
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      04-29-2015, 03:00 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abacus38 View Post
Power isn't the issues.
and then...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abacus38 View Post
Our only problem is are lack fueling and tuning option available.
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      04-29-2015, 03:24 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jklad View Post
+1. Put a proper drag tire on the rear, set up the suspension for launching, then cross your fingers and as long as nothing in the driveline breaks, should be able to hit tens without any crazy hp numbers.

I really think that most people just would not be happy with daily driving their Bmws if they were appropriately set up for the drag strip - it is a very different feel.
Oversimplification/oversight due to lack of experience is often the most common cause of disappointment and inevitable failure, or as some would say, easier said than done.

You can properly set up "a car" for the drag strip and enjoy that car on the street, in summer, but to properly set up the E8x E9x N54/N55 platform for drag racing you'd definitely end up with quite a different feel in your car, bank account and would probably get an incurable eye twitch.

Unfortunately some people choose to ignore this simple reality on this platform and continue to amuse themselves and persist on pushing on with drag strip racing which is perfectly fine and we also love every single form of racing and some of our staff are really hard core drag racers and wouldn't want to race any other way. However, no one is fooling themselves into thinking what it'd take to get this platform into 10s and beyond, consistently and reliably being the two key words, without hacking up the cars and turning them into something they were never meant to be, ruining them in the process to the point of looking back and saying 'what a waste, never again'
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Last edited by proTUNING Freaks; 04-29-2015 at 03:34 PM.
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      04-29-2015, 03:39 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proTUNING Freaks View Post
OEM XI drivetrain is quite weak. Various components like what happened with Give_Em_The_DD's car will fail miserably after some solid launches.

Front differential is one common point of failure. To make it live you'd need to "invest" into making a stronger front diff with a machine shop, custom and stronger ring/pinion. You also have to upgrade all 4 axles and when all of that is taken care of the transfer case is next and good luck upgrading that.

We wish it wasn't the case but the reality of the matter is that N54 XI driveline is weak to take this car reliably into 10s at the drag strip. Even the cars hitting 11s start to have issues with repeated launches be it the transfer case or the front diff.
I cant even begin to add up what i had to do to my 3000gt to be able to launch a 3700lb car with 650awhp. front and rear lsd's, center, transfercase beef up, tranny beef up, drive shaft, AWS delete, RPS triple disk, probably about $8k just in AWD parts on a car with a decently beefy AWD system (2nd gen anyways) AWD's are fun and there is nothing like them......until they break or need to be upgraded
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