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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Not the typical misfire?



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      06-05-2016, 06:36 PM   #1
trono
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Not the typical misfire?

Hi all,

I really tried to read myself up on this before posting another misfire thread. I got a 2009 E92 335ix with the typical misfire issue. Problem is that I've gone through most of the common fixes and so far spent about $1000 on repairs, not really getting me anywhere. Even the garage I took it to were out of ideas. The engine is stock with 70 000 miles.
- Changed head valve gasket
- Changed all spark plugs
- Cleaned MAF sensor
- New coil on cylinder 6 that is the one that registers misfire faults.

The car idles roughly. Sometimes fairly bad when cold starting and that actually causes a registered misfire fault. But it's always somewhat shaky. Even at warm engine it keeps idling roughly and the RPM needle usually fluctuate a bit with the noticeable engine vibrations.

If I clear the error it doesn't come back immediately. Could be a week before another misfire fault, but the issue is getting worse and it is constantly idling roughly even though it is not registering as a misfire.

From reading the forums I am starting to suspect a weak HPFP as sometimes, not often, it has a long churn time before starting.

Would gladly take any tips! Is there anything I can do to find out if that's the cause? If so it should be covered by warranty, right? And how can I present the case for BMW without having to spend a whole lot more on replacing parts that doesn't help?
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      06-05-2016, 06:44 PM   #2
sp1tfire
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Possibly leasy injector or HPFP. Most likely fuel system component. You should do walnut blast as well, if not done within last 40-70k.
Is it multiple cylinder misfire or only one/couple?
It takes so long to reappear (most likely) because car goes through misfire part of drive cycle only under certain conditions. While very bad misfires may cause engine light back almost instantly.
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      06-05-2016, 07:37 PM   #3
trono
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Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I thought about walnut blast too. I don't have the history of the car. Bought it from a dealer in November. Probably haven't been done, but can't say for sure. As far as I know it is always cyl 6 that has the fault code. The error came up first time about 3 months ago. Then last month I've probably had it erased 4 or 5 times.

The Service Engine Soon has never come up while driving, but at startup. After the car has sit for some hours. As mentioned it does usually start fine, with just slight engine vibrations. But the very rough ones causing the fault seems to come more and more often.

If it's a leaky injector wouldn't the garage would have noticed it..? They've had it in twice. First time changing the head gasket because they noticed a small leak around cylinder 6, and thought that was the reason for the misfires.
Second time to replace all spark plugs. They said the gaps were too wide.
I then replaced the coil myself, but it haven't changed anything. I've never noticed any smell of gas either.

With the slow start. Churning for up to 10 seconds that have happened about 3 - 4 times this year made me suspect the HPFP. But I am definitively no expert.


Would BMW have any tools to properly diagnose a weak HPFP?
I am just a bit afraid to take it to them now and then they'll start an expensive process of replacing part by part.
The warranty on that though is 10 years/120k miles, right?
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      06-06-2016, 12:10 AM   #4
alexg212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trono View Post
Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I thought about walnut blast too. I don't have the history of the car. Bought it from a dealer in November. Probably haven't been done, but can't say for sure. As far as I know it is always cyl 6 that has the fault code. The error came up first time about 3 months ago. Then last month I've probably had it erased 4 or 5 times.

The Service Engine Soon has never come up while driving, but at startup. After the car has sit for some hours. As mentioned it does usually start fine, with just slight engine vibrations. But the very rough ones causing the fault seems to come more and more often.

If it's a leaky injector wouldn't the garage would have noticed it..? They've had it in twice. First time changing the head gasket because they noticed a small leak around cylinder 6, and thought that was the reason for the misfires.
Second time to replace all spark plugs. They said the gaps were too wide.
I then replaced the coil myself, but it haven't changed anything. I've never noticed any smell of gas either.

With the slow start. Churning for up to 10 seconds that have happened about 3 - 4 times this year made me suspect the HPFP. But I am definitively no expert.


Would BMW have any tools to properly diagnose a weak HPFP?
I am just a bit afraid to take it to them now and then they'll start an expensive process of replacing part by part.
The warranty on that though is 10 years/120k miles, right?
Small leak of oil around cylinder 6? If there is oil under the the valve cover, gasket may be causing contamination issues in coil/plug. It is often misdiagnosed as oil being spilled. If you clean it up and oil keeps showing up, it's the gasket. 70k if on stock injectors would be a good time to replace all 6 as preventative maintenance.
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      06-07-2016, 12:54 PM   #5
trono
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Thanks! Gasket has already been replaced. I went by an authorized BMW dealer today, and they read the key. What I should've done instead of asking the local garage to fix it.

The service adviser wouldn't say anything specific except I need to deliver the car to them for further diagnostics, but he gave me this readout. If I read this correctly there are fault stored on both the injectors and the HPFP - and IF they're at fault they're both covered by warranty? Or.. ?
Crosses my fingers that I can catch a break and have some luck with this car

http://imgur.com/lRMAZrV
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      06-07-2016, 01:30 PM   #6
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If you haven't done injectors yet, they are probably due along with a walnut blast, plus new plugs & coils once that's done. I wouldn't worry about the pump, the newer model E92's 2009-11 were not as susceptible to pump issues. I'm still running the original HPFP in my 2010, 112,000 miles, MHD tuned for about 15,000 or so. Good news is the pump is warrantied until about 120,000 miles like their printout said, so you may get that replaced for free if it turns out to be faulty. Good luck, these cars can be finicky but they are too much fun!
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      06-07-2016, 06:03 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trono View Post
Thanks! Gasket has already been replaced. I went by an authorized BMW dealer today, and they read the key. What I should've done instead of asking the local garage to fix it.

The service adviser wouldn't say anything specific except I need to deliver the car to them for further diagnostics, but he gave me this readout. If I read this correctly there are fault stored on both the injectors and the HPFP - and IF they're at fault they're both covered by warranty? Or.. ?
Crosses my fingers that I can catch a break and have some luck with this car

http://imgur.com/lRMAZrV
If the dealer does your injectors and HPFP, request that they do your plugs too. If will save you $80 in parts and an hour's effort. They "should" agree to do that as part of the warranty job. If the injectors are leaking, the plugs may be fouled.

Back when my car had 40K or so and my injectors were replaced, I made that same request and the dealer took care if it.

I recently replaced those injectors, but didn't do the plugs for a few days and the difference before and after the new plugs was substantial despite that the plugs only had about 15k miles... Definitely worth the time and money in my book - again about $80 and one hour - maybe less.

Good luck!
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      06-07-2016, 08:16 PM   #8
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The codes you posted show up as Cylinder 2, 6 and multiple bank 2 codes. I hate to say it, but I'd be checking your injectors and get a new mechanic.
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      06-08-2016, 12:16 AM   #9
alexg212
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I'd change the low pressure fuel pump sensor too. It could cause some of your symptoms. It's a cheap part and easy to install.
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      06-08-2016, 01:24 PM   #10
trono
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Thanks all! Plugs and valve cover gasket was replaced only two weeks ago. I'll just deliver it to BMW this time. Hopefully the warranty covers at least parts of it. The first "repairs" that didn't really do nothing set me back $1000 already. I know BMW needs to check everything again, but they said it should all be covered if it's a warranty issue.

Could the long start-up cranking also be injectors? Or is that mainly an issue with the HPFP? It's getting worse and happens more often.
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      06-08-2016, 02:00 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trono View Post
Thanks all! Plugs and valve cover gasket was replaced only two weeks ago. I'll just deliver it to BMW this time. Hopefully the warranty covers at least parts of it. The first "repairs" that didn't really do nothing set me back $1000 already. I know BMW needs to check everything again, but they said it should all be covered if it's a warranty issue.

Could the long start-up cranking also be injectors? Or is that mainly an issue with the HPFP? It's getting worse and happens more often.
Generally the fuel pump issue will give slow cranks. There is also a sensor for both. If injectors are leaking, fuel smell, and rough start is the main symptom.
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      06-08-2016, 06:42 PM   #12
trono
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Alright, thanks! I know there's no fuel smell, but I'll hand the car in and see what they say. Hopefully it won't be crazy expensive and this will be the last of my problems with this car for a while, heh.
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