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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > All COBB Tuning AccessPORT Flash for N54 335i Discussion Here



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      01-07-2011, 01:30 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by Mugen1516 View Post
I did read the thread...there was a big difference in 135 and 335 numbers. I believe the 135 made less than the 335 (however I can't find that dyno now) COBB found a calibration change and they were to redyno the 135 and hence...

But yet there is still such a big difference. Previously I think the 135 made even less than the 335 on the dyno now it's flip flopped.
Mugen,

The 335i was on our Mustang dyno in Austin, TX and the 135i was on our Mustang dyno in Portland, OR. We believe the difference is caused by the parasitic loss calibration files being used on each dyno, but ultimately, there are a lot of variables in comparing the two cars across the two dynos. The Mustang dyno is much more of a tuning tool than a peak power measurement device, and focusing on the gains rather than the peak numbers will make much more sense when comparing between dynos.

We use a tool called Dyno Database Online, which lets us present dyno pulls publicly in a nice interactive format. I've pulled up a comparison between the two cars. It's a little busy with all of the graphs, but it shows the differences between the cars and dynos you are referring to. You can click on the graph to be linked to DDBO. If you focus on gains, the results are similar.



As we build out the database with customer cars and their baseline pulls, staged pulls and custom tune pulls it will provide a lot more data for folks to compare performance numbers with. We invite you to play with Dyno Database Online with the other platforms we support so you can see the depth of dyno data we will be building up as the AccessPORT matures for BMW vehicles.

You can navigate using the Car Chooser and select Make, Model, Year, Owner and even Shop. Any dropdown you leave alone will provide results for the entire range under that dropdown.

Have fun!

Gary
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      01-07-2011, 01:32 PM   #288
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What happens in the event of 'DME Bricking' during flashing?

Unlikely, perhaps, but I work in IT and have to flash certain devices from time to time, routers, phones, BIOS' etc -- they work most of the time, but occasionally it'll go wrong and the device becomes pretty much null & void.

The last thing I'd want is a bricked BMW DME.

A quick Google search yields some threads from STI owners who managed to brick their ECU. Is this something we need to worry about?
The AccessPORT has a recovery mode in the case a cable is kicked out or some other random failure occurs, meaning your ECU is nice and safe.

Cheers,
Rob
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      01-07-2011, 01:34 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by deadlyrhythm View Post
Perhaps I'm partially new to the game, but...
1. Why do the 135i and 335i have different stock HP #s, 240 vs 276HP, in the COBB dynos? That's a SIGNIFICANT difference in my mind. (Maybe it's just my mind)
2. Why are your run 2 & 3 (91 & 93) octane numbers at the EXACT same time? (12:18 and 7:44)
3. Why does the 335i only have a 63HP improvement, unlike the 135i which has 74HP?

Looking forward to picking up my COBB unit!
The gains on each car is very similar, even though the raw numbers are slightly different. Keep in mind that while we try to keep our dynos reading very similarly there are some discrepancies. However, the overall gains stock to tuned are similar! Also, keep in mind that the 135 and 335 are different cars so they will not make identical power numbers.

The time stamp on the dyno run is not based on when the run was done, but when they were uploaded from the dyno computer to the online database.

Also, it has been asked what happens if you lose power mid-flash, will you brick the ECU? We have a recovery mode built into the AccessPORT so that should you lose power, or the cable gets unplugged or something like that mid-flash, you can recover and continue your flash.

We stand behind our products 100%, if you ever have an issue with a COBB Tuning product, we will do whatever it takes to get you back on the road! Feel free to call us any time at 1-866-922-3059 if you have any needs or concerns!

Travis
COBB Tuning

Last edited by COBB Tuning; 01-07-2011 at 01:40 PM.
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      01-07-2011, 01:36 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by Boostin335 View Post
Hey Robb, any xi yesterday or today?? Up to like 40 xiers waiting
We've got a couple of people with 335xi's that we're working with, but it's going to take a little time to make sure we get everything right. I'm excited to get the 'xi'ers up and running.

Cheers,
Rob
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      01-07-2011, 02:22 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by Rob@Cobb View Post
We've got a couple of people with 335xi's that we're working with, but it's going to take a little time to make sure we get everything right. I'm excited to get the 'xi'ers up and running.

Cheers,
Rob
Can't wait to see the N55 results too.
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      01-07-2011, 02:22 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by Rob@Cobb View Post
We've got a couple of people with 335xi's that we're working with, but it's going to take a little time to make sure we get everything right. I'm excited to get the 'xi'ers up and running.

Cheers,
Rob
Great! I look forward to hearing more about this.
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      01-07-2011, 02:34 PM   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@Cobb View Post
I was able to talk to a 335is last night to grab a ROM. (Thanks J!). Over the next few I will be ripping into the ROM to look at the tuning. However, we need to find a alpha tester with either 'is' car here in Austin to allow us to complete tuning on the car for the stage maps.

Cheers,
Rob
That's little too far of a drive for me but I've got my credit card in hand when it's ready.
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      01-07-2011, 03:32 PM   #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@Cobb View Post
We've got a couple of people with 335xi's that we're working with, but it's going to take a little time to make sure we get everything right. I'm excited to get the 'xi'ers up and running.

Cheers,
Rob
Awesome. Looking forward to it!
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      01-07-2011, 04:24 PM   #295
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Well, please work on getting the work done on us 07 guys before taking on the "xi" and "is" bimmers!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@Cobb View Post
We've got a couple of people with 335xi's that we're working with, but it's going to take a little time to make sure we get everything right. I'm excited to get the 'xi'ers up and running.

Cheers,
Rob
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      01-07-2011, 04:34 PM   #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COBB Tuning View Post
The gains on each car is very similar, even though the raw numbers are slightly different. Keep in mind that while we try to keep our dynos reading very similarly there are some discrepancies. However, the overall gains stock to tuned are similar! Also, keep in mind that the 135 and 335 are different cars so they will not make identical power numbers.

The time stamp on the dyno run is not based on when the run was done, but when they were uploaded from the dyno computer to the online database.

Also, it has been asked what happens if you lose power mid-flash, will you brick the ECU? We have a recovery mode built into the AccessPORT so that should you lose power, or the cable gets unplugged or something like that mid-flash, you can recover and continue your flash.

We stand behind our products 100%, if you ever have an issue with a COBB Tuning product, we will do whatever it takes to get you back on the road! Feel free to call us any time at 1-866-922-3059 if you have any needs or concerns!

Travis
COBB Tuning
To me the more interesting difference is the shape of the power curves. The 135i curve shows it is gaining power up to 6500 rpm while the 335i peaks at 5500. All the other tune dyno curves I have seen for this motor have the power peak around the 5500 mark. To me this is a significant difference/improvement in the tune as we usually see the power taper off above 5500. Can you comment on this?
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      01-07-2011, 04:42 PM   #297
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If you guys are looking for an independent test then check out the thread I just made.

Thanks to the guys at Cobb, we are very excited you launched into the community and can't wait to continue to work with you

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...10#post8640210

~Cicio
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      01-07-2011, 04:45 PM   #298
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I would like to see a tune specific for the BMW Performance Power Kit made.
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      01-07-2011, 04:45 PM   #299
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Sold my jb+ today.

And sent off a check to Cobb to get my AP. Cannot wait.

Now all I need is a car to put it on.
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      01-07-2011, 04:53 PM   #300
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Well, please work on getting the work done on us 07 guys before taking on the "xi" and "is" bimmers!!
Hey now....

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      01-07-2011, 04:54 PM   #301
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Sold my jb+ today.

And sent off a check to Cobb to get my AP. Cannot wait.

Now all I need is a car to put it on.
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      01-07-2011, 05:17 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by cwg View Post
To me the more interesting difference is the shape of the power curves. The 135i curve shows it is gaining power up to 6500 rpm while the 335i peaks at 5500. All the other tune dyno curves I have seen for this motor have the power peak around the 5500 mark. To me this is a significant difference/improvement in the tune as we usually see the power taper off above 5500. Can you comment on this?
This is a common occurrence on load-based chassis dynamometers. They employ vehicle loading techniques that more closely represent real-world loading conditions and impose additional loads as vehicle speed increases.

As a vehicle increases in speed, an increased aerodynamic force is imposed. A engine's output must exponentially increase in order to push through this increased aerodynamic resistance, and increase top speeds. I say exponential because you would need to increase power output exponentially to increase a vehicle's top speed once you hit the aerodynamic top speed barrier (no gearing limitations). A simple example: to increase top speed by 1 MPH it may take 1 HP, 2 MPH = 4 HP, 3 MPH = 9 HP...and so on.

On a load-based chassis dyno (as apposed to an inertial dyno), the dyno will continue to put additional load on the vehicle through the PAU (Power Absorption Unit) as vehicle speed increases. This is the most accurate means of putting a vehicle under real world street driving conditions where aerodynamic loads increase as vehicle speeds increase.

This is why you will see more of a taper on power output on load-based chassis dyno graphs. These dynos are more closely simulating real-world conditions.

Christian.
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      01-07-2011, 05:20 PM   #303
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Sold my jb+ today.

And sent off a check to Cobb to get my AP. Cannot wait.

Now all I need is a car to put it on.
Cart before the horse...I mean tune before the car?
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      01-07-2011, 05:29 PM   #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian. View Post
This is a common occurrence on load-based chassis dynamometers. They employ vehicle loading techniques that more closely represent real-world loading conditions and impose additional loads as vehicle speed increases.

As a vehicle increases in speed, an increased aerodynamic force is imposed. A engine's output must exponentially increase in order to push through this increased aerodynamic resistance, and increase top speeds. I say exponential because you would need to increase power output exponentially to increase a vehicle's top speed once you hit the aerodynamic top speed barrier (no gearing limitations). A simple example: to increase top speed by 1 MPH it may take 1 HP, 2 MPH = 4 HP, 3 MPH = 9 HP...and so on.

On a load-based chassis dyno (as apposed to an inertial dyno), the dyno will continue to put additional load on the vehicle through the PAU (Power Absorption Unit) as vehicle speed increases. This is the most accurate means of putting a vehicle under real world street driving conditions where aerodynamic loads increase as vehicle speeds increase.

This is why you will see more of a taper on power output on load-based chassis dyno graphs. These dynos are more closely simulating real-world conditions.

Christian.
Ok that all makes sense, but I understood that both the new 135i dyno graphs posted yesterday and the 335i graphs were generated on the same type of load based (Mustang) dyno - If that is the case, then I still have a question as to why the 135i has that great power curve holding or increasing power up to the 6500 rpm range as opposed to all the other power curves we see on this motor. If my undestanding is correct and the 135i was dynoed on a load based dyno, then the graphs show a power curve the opposite of what you are describing.
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      01-07-2011, 05:34 PM   #305
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Do you guys alter water pump programing at all?
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      01-07-2011, 05:50 PM   #306
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Sold my jb+ today.

And sent off a check to Cobb to get my AP. Cannot wait.

Now all I need is a car to put it on.
People still write checks???
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      01-07-2011, 06:08 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by Rob@Cobb View Post
The AccessPORT has a recovery mode in the case a cable is kicked out or some other random failure occurs, meaning your ECU is nice and safe.

Cheers,
Rob
I am going to print and frame this over my computer This is my only car atm, and I sure dont want to be stuck like chuck
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      01-07-2011, 06:09 PM   #308
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Ok that all makes sense, but I understood that both the new 135i dyno graphs posted yesterday and the 335i graphs were generated on the same type of load based (Mustang) dyno - If that is the case, then I still have a question as to why the 135i has that great power curve holding or increasing power up to the 6500 rpm range as opposed to all the other power curves we see on this motor. If my undestanding is correct and the 135i was dynoed on a load based dyno, then the graphs show a power curve the opposite of what you are describing.
We are thinking that this is a function of the parasitic loss calibration files on the different dynos. Once we get a 135i on the Austin dyno and a 335i on the Surgeline dyno we'll see exactly what the behavior characteristics are. The gearing of these cars has us running the dynos at higher speeds than we typically see on other vehicles, so we're getting into areas of the parasitic loss calibration that may need some additional fine tuning in order to more closely match.

Gary
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