E90Post
 


GT Haus
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > All COBB Tuning AccessPORT Flash for N54 335i Discussion Here



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-22-2012, 11:03 AM   #3939
335(EX)(EYE)
Banned
United_States
45

 
Drives: e90 n54 & n55 / e46 330ci DD
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Harrisburg PA


Posts: 1,499
iTrader: (14)

sorry im completely new to the flash tunes..al i had before was a JB+,
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2012, 11:06 AM   #3940
rader1
Banned
42

 
Drives: Cobb Stage 2+ 135i
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Roanoke, VA


Posts: 2,197
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335(EX)(EYE) View Post
so what map is it called? stage 1 agrressive stock throttle? i dont need anything else but my bmw and 93gas?
Yes, on both question. Hook it up-> select install-> stage 1v301 stock throttle-> give it ~20 minutes to flash and then
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2012, 11:09 AM   #3941
Zasquatch
Captain
United_States
23

 
Zasquatch's Avatar
 
Drives: '07 BMW 335i
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: CT


Posts: 622
iTrader: (15)

Garage List
2007 BMW 335i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by 335(EX)(EYE) View Post
can u guys explain linear and aggresive? which will get rid of the deadpedal that i feel like i have for the first inch of pushing the pedal down?
Read the release notes / user manual on the cobb website. All your questions will be answered. You should be reading it before hand anyway....
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2012, 11:09 AM   #3942
E90SoFlo
Banned
106

 
Drives: E90 335i
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Naples, FL


Posts: 2,675
iTrader: (9)

http://www.cobbtuning.com/

866.922.3059

If you have questions

Also I like the new website.
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2012, 11:11 AM   #3943
AWD Addict
Chief Executive
49

 
AWD Addict's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 335xi 6spd Coupe
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Boston


Posts: 2,483
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2008 335xi  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal G@Camber-Toe View Post
Maybe you dont care as much since you have the update already? but the rest with stuttering cars would at least like a status on it since theres only 1 post from them every # of pages
Repeatedly asking about it isn't going to make it come out any faster. You should have figured that out on your own, or maybe even by the fact that they don't reply to you.

When it comes out, you'll know.

Of course there's nothing wrong with being excited about it, but there is with being a grown man and acting like a 9 year old. Also, for everyone else looking for new information on a subscribed thread, it's f*cking annoying for hte 9 year olds to be bumping the thread without anything useful (which is why people subscribe to threads.)
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2012, 11:25 AM   #3944
335(EX)(EYE)
Banned
United_States
45

 
Drives: e90 n54 & n55 / e46 330ci DD
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Harrisburg PA


Posts: 1,499
iTrader: (14)

Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SoFlo View Post
http://www.cobbtuning.com/

866.922.3059

If you have questions

Also I like the new website.
thanks guys. its in the fedex truck somehwere about to get dropped off..when home from work im gona install it. so excited. yeah i just found the info sorry. thanks for quick replys though.
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2012, 11:30 AM   #3945
rader1
Banned
42

 
Drives: Cobb Stage 2+ 135i
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Roanoke, VA


Posts: 2,197
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335(EX)(EYE) View Post
thanks guys. its in the fedex truck somehwere about to get dropped off..when home from work im gona install it. so excited. yeah i just found the info sorry. thanks for quick replys though.
Be sure to have all accesories off before flashing: climate control, radio, driving lights et...

If the weather is nice, i recommend rolling the drivers window down and just use the AP while standing outside the car and set it down in the drivers seat while flashing. It does take a few minutes to install and it kind of sucks being stuck in the car lol, you shouldn't open the doors or roll the windows down while it's flashing.
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2012, 11:39 AM   #3946
JStang
N54 ADDICT
99

 
JStang's Avatar
 
Drives: FBO E92 335i
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: St. Petersburg, FL


Posts: 2,989
iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWD Addict View Post
Repeatedly asking about it isn't going to make it come out any faster. You should have figured that out on your own, or maybe even by the fact that they don't reply to you.

When it comes out, you'll know.

Of course there's nothing wrong with being excited about it, but there is with being a grown man and acting like a 9 year old. Also, for everyone else looking for new information on a subscribed thread, it's f*cking annoying for hte 9 year olds to be bumping the thread without anything useful (which is why people subscribe to threads.)
They will release it when they feel it is perfected. We don't want them releasing a faulty tune early just because they are feeling pressure from forum members.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2012, 11:44 AM   #3947
2Times
I'd hit it
United_States
11

 
2Times's Avatar
 
Drives: black on black e92 335xi
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Boostin, MA


Posts: 626
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2008 335xi  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by JStang View Post
They will release it when they feel it is perfected. We don't want them releasing a faulty tune early just because they are feeling pressure from forum members.
True, I can wait
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2012, 11:54 AM   #3948
Sal G@Camber-Toe
153

 
Sal G@Camber-Toe's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 335xi sg,6mt,navi,hs
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Long Island, NY


Posts: 14,191
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWD Addict View Post
Repeatedly asking about it isn't going to make it come out any faster. You should have figured that out on your own, or maybe even by the fact that they don't reply to you.

When it comes out, you'll know.

Of course there's nothing wrong with being excited about it, but there is with being a grown man and acting like a 9 year old. Also, for everyone else looking for new information on a subscribed thread, it's f*cking annoying for hte 9 year olds to be bumping the thread without anything useful (which is why people subscribe to threads.)
Gonna end this here and not further clutter up this thread, but your calling me a 9y/o for asking about an update or status twice? This thread could be condensed to 100 pages if all the clutter and asking for updates were removed from everyone.

A simple, "we know what the issue is," or "its being fixed eta 1-2 months", really anything would do. Instead the one post we finally get is a sentence regarding another product. Nothing against Rob or anything. I know the potential is here and I'm just trying to be able to use my Cobb again.

Again, hoping to just dead the clutter here. I rarely post here, I just read and inform myself. This thread did start off somewhat informational...

Last edited by Sal G@Camber-Toe; 02-22-2012 at 11:58 AM. Reason: typo
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2012, 12:39 PM   #3949
skim7x
Use it or Lose it
United_States
80

 
skim7x's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i e92
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Clifton, NJ


Posts: 2,461
iTrader: (4)

Garage List
2007 335i  [5.00]
What changes are being made for v400? Just bug fixes? Any new features?

And i thought i read this somewhere but can't find it now... Is cobb working in meth integration?

Thanks.
__________________
'07 Space Gray 335i coupe w/ Sports Package | Comfort Access

Cobb S1+ | PTF e30 custom tune | AMS | CP-e | BMS OCC | Quaife
[Newark Photoshoot #1]
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2012, 12:41 PM   #3950
E90SoFlo
Banned
106

 
Drives: E90 335i
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Naples, FL


Posts: 2,675
iTrader: (9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal G@Camber-Toe View Post
Gonna end this here and not further clutter up this thread, but your calling me a 9y/o for asking about an update or status twice? This thread could be condensed to 100 pages if all the clutter and asking for updates were removed from everyone.

A simple, "we know what the issue is," or "its being fixed eta 1-2 months", really anything would do. Instead the one post we finally get is a sentence regarding another product. Nothing against Rob or anything. I know the potential is here and I'm just trying to be able to use my Cobb again.

Again, hoping to just dead the clutter here. I rarely post here, I just read and inform myself. This thread did start off somewhat informational...
They replied with, Soon. If you don't like the answer. TO BAD.

Be patient
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2012, 01:24 PM   #3951
COBB Tuning
Major
120

 
COBB Tuning's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Austin, TX


Posts: 1,044
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal G@Camber-Toe View Post
Status on the updates please?
We are still working on the 3k RPM surge "fix". Unfortunately the reverse engineering process doesn't lend itself well to definite time frames. Sometimes we get lucky and find what we are looking for right away. Other times we have to dig and it takes a bit longer. But, we are working hard to get these maps out as quickly as possible!

Ian
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2012, 01:34 PM   #3952
Rob@Cobb
Lieutenant
12

 
Drives: 2011 E92 335i ///M Pack
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Austin, TX


Posts: 468
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux View Post
Would you mind answering the question I asked earlier on (see below) in this respect?

I observed that when running stage 2 + FMIC aggressive in extremely low temperatures (up to minus 10 degrees Celsius), the car was also boosting up to 18.5psi which - if it was load targeting only - it would not have done, as the load target would then be so high that under normal summer temperatures you would need more than 22psi to reach it (which is impossible with the stock turbos).

Therefor, the mechanics at least of the stage 2 maps is not based on load targeting only but also on boost targeting (which I believe in another thread was already confirmed when I ask the same question). However, the manual available on your website for the Access Tuner Pro only mentions load targeting...

In particular in view of maps for bigger turbos I think that is quite an important distinction.

Alpina_B3_Lux
The ECU uses a tighter window on converting load to boost targets than you might surmise. In the cold temps you are seeing the ECU is likely hitting it's load targets, that is if the ECU MAF fix was in place. Other models in the ECU make the boost targeting accurate even without the fix in place. MAF Fix aside, when it warms up the ECU would target around 19.5-20psi. I have a ceiling in place to keep the boost around 18.5 psi for now. To be honest the stock turbos are happy to hit 19.5-20 psi below 5500 RPM.

Cheers,
Rob
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2012, 01:45 PM   #3953
BrianMN
Colonel
75

 
Drives: 4 Door Family Sedan
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis


Posts: 2,429
iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@Cobb View Post
To be honest the stock turbos are happy to hit 19.5-20 psi below 5500 RPM.

Cheers,
Rob
Rob- why do you choose to do this when you can get similar power out of 18psi and higher timing? The lower boost/higher timing is unquestionably more responsive, and induces less heat/strain on components. Is there something I'm not seeing?
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2012, 02:59 PM   #3954
AWD Addict
Chief Executive
49

 
AWD Addict's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 335xi 6spd Coupe
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Boston


Posts: 2,483
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2008 335xi  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal G@Camber-Toe View Post
Gonna end this here and not further clutter up this thread, but your calling me a 9y/o for asking about an update or status twice?
Yes. Because depsite your two, there have been dozens of others that you either failed to read, or didn't care about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal G@Camber-Toe View Post
This thread could be condensed to 100 pages if all the clutter and asking for updates were removed from everyone.
Agreed, and precisely my point.
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2012, 04:36 PM   #3955
Rob@Cobb
Lieutenant
12

 
Drives: 2011 E92 335i ///M Pack
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Austin, TX


Posts: 468
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianMN View Post
Rob- why do you choose to do this when you can get similar power out of 18psi and higher timing? The lower boost/higher timing is unquestionably more responsive, and induces less heat/strain on components. Is there something I'm not seeing?
To be honest we came out conservative on timing having seen what the ECU reports on all the cylinders. Over timing a motor can hurt them very quickly. It's safer to run less timing if a bad detonation event is to occur. The ECU can react quickly, but may not have enough authority in a bad event with high cylinder pressure. That case worsens if the ECU thinks it's at a lower cylinder pressure that it actually is.

I have run numerous timing curves. We have picked what we believe worked best keeping a safe tune in mind. Heavy timing requests result in timing movement by the ECUs knock correction logic. Way more than I am comfortable with being able to see what each cylinder is doing. Especially, given cylinder 1 is notoriously quiet compared to the others.

That being said our revised maps will have a bit more timing in the future at the same levels of boost. Our turbos are very well designed and are happy to work at the level we ask of them. Running more boost in the 2500-5000 RPM range also results in better low end torque. Right where people drive 99% of the time.

I can most certainly understand where others tuning philosophy came from, and respect it. The neat part is with ATR/ATP our users are welcome to do what they please. ATP should be released very soon and ATR following with in a couple of months. ATP is already in the hands of several tuners working on their own or close customer cars.

Cheers,
Rob

Last edited by Rob@Cobb; 02-22-2012 at 04:48 PM.
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2012, 05:17 PM   #3956
tscdennab
Banned
103

 
Drives: BMW 335i
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Europe


Posts: 1,811
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 BMW  [3.12]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@Cobb View Post
ATP should be released very soon and ATR following with in a couple of months.
Do you have a timeframe for releasing the updated standard maps for Cobb Accessport ? Also what about the meth suport ? Any news ? I mean, let's suppose you fix the 3k RPM issue. Will you release race gas or meth maps along with the current maps, or will they be released later ?

Also, are you aware of the shift bog on manual cars ? Did you experience it ?
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2012, 05:19 PM   #3957
BrianMN
Colonel
75

 
Drives: 4 Door Family Sedan
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis


Posts: 2,429
iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@Cobb View Post
To be honest we came out conservative on timing having seen what the ECU reports on all the cylinders. Over timing a motor can hurt them very quickly. It's safer to run less timing if a bad detonation event is to occur. The ECU can react quickly, but may not have enough authority in a bad event with high cylinder pressure. That case worsens if the ECU thinks it's at a lower cylinder pressure that it actually is.

I have run numerous timing curves. We have picked what we believe worked best keeping a safe tune in mind. Heavy timing requests result in timing movement by the ECUs knock correction logic. Way more than I am comfortable with being able to see what each cylinder is doing. Especially, given cylinder 1 is notoriously quiet compared to the others.

That being said our revised maps will have a bit more timing in the future at the same levels of boost. Our turbos are very well designed and are happy to work at the level we ask of them. Running more boost in the 2500-5000 RPM range also results in better low end torque. Right where people drive 99% of the time.

I can most certainly understand where others tuning philosophy came from, and respect it. The neat part is with ATR/ATP our users are welcome to do what they please. ATP should be released very soon and ATR following with in a couple of months. ATP is already in the hands of several tuners working on their own or close customer cars.

Cheers,
Rob
Thank you for the response. I can understand your conservative in nature approach to remotely tuning hundreds of engines, but there is so much knowledge and best practices already developed in this platform that you'd think it isn't so risky to run normal boost with what is seen as 'normal' timing.

Contrary to what seems to be happy balance of boost/timing, you're going to higher boost and very low timing. I agree it can be safer for the engine to take this approach, but is it really that much of a risk? Also- would you ever suggest your customers go out onto a road course pushing more boost/lower timing (which instantly equals more heat)? If you'll agree that more boost/less timing = high egts, then I fail to see the logic in doing that to an engine that you are trying to keep 'happy'

If you are planning on saying with high boost, lets say 19psi, and eventually bringing timing up to "normal" timing (without meth), then that would be more agreeable; yet also considerably more aggressive. However- I doubt we'll ever see the day where you can pull off 19psi with 10* midrange timing. I've been proven wrong before, and I would absolutely love it if you'd prove me wrong with this....because that will mean one powerful N54!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@Cobb View Post
That too bad. There is torque to be had. :P

Cheers,
Rob
Also- You've mentioned pump-only (no meth) there is more torque to be had by going above 18.5psi. Are you sure about that? Most of procede users (at 17ishpsi) have been getting a flat 440tq curve...my car getting 445. Do you have any dynos to prove that this is possible?

Here are the results i'm referencing:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...t=dyno+results

Edit: Just found posts of a 135 that made 460tq, which is awesome... are there more dynos of these types of results? (basically none in the N54 section) http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=601665

Last edited by BrianMN; 02-22-2012 at 05:55 PM.
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2012, 08:39 PM   #3958
rader1
Banned
42

 
Drives: Cobb Stage 2+ 135i
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Roanoke, VA


Posts: 2,197
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianMN View Post
Thank you for the response. I can understand your conservative in nature approach to remotely tuning hundreds of engines, but there is so much knowledge and best practices already developed in this platform that you'd think it isn't so risky to run normal boost with what is seen as 'normal' timing.

Contrary to what seems to be happy balance of boost/timing, you're going to higher boost and very low timing. I agree it can be safer for the engine to take this approach, but is it really that much of a risk? Also- would you ever suggest your customers go out onto a road course pushing more boost/lower timing (which instantly equals more heat)? If you'll agree that more boost/less timing = high egts, then I fail to see the logic in doing that to an engine that you are trying to keep 'happy'

If you are planning on saying with high boost, lets say 19psi, and eventually bringing timing up to "normal" timing (without meth), then that would be more agreeable; yet also considerably more aggressive. However- I doubt we'll ever see the day where you can pull off 19psi with 10* midrange timing. I've been proven wrong before, and I would absolutely love it if you'd prove me wrong with this....because that will mean one powerful N54!



Also- You've mentioned pump-only (no meth) there is more torque to be had by going above 18.5psi. Are you sure about that? Most of procede users (at 17ishpsi) have been getting a flat 440tq curve...my car getting 445. Do you have any dynos to prove that this is possible?

Here are the results i'm referencing:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...t=dyno+results

Edit: Just found posts of a 135 that made 460tq, which is awesome... are there more dynos of these types of results? (basically none in the N54 section) http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=601665
I believe yuchi's dyno was optimistic. There is another vid of the same dyno with a different 135i making very similar power, either it's 2 factory freaks or a high reading dyno. Most OTS stage 2+ maps are around the 420rwtq-440rwtq mark depending on which particular dynojet. I run Cobb, but i'm not a fanbois and i'll gladly admit when something is askew.
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2012, 09:21 PM   #3959
Jblaze4lif
New Member
0

 
Drives: 2008 BMW 335i Sedan
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NY


Posts: 14
iTrader: (0)

How much hp at the flywheel with map 1 91 octane on a stock 2008 335i sedan.

I would like to keep thr car completely stock except a tune. I am only
Looking to make 350 - 375 hp/torque while remaining reliable and good gas mileage.

How relaible is the stage 1 map. Are their common problems with this tune that I should wait some time for upgrades and such. Stock 335i we change out the plugs every 45 to 50k. With this tune would I want to change them out every 25k.
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2012, 10:51 PM   #3960
Rob@Cobb
Lieutenant
12

 
Drives: 2011 E92 335i ///M Pack
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Austin, TX


Posts: 468
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianMN View Post
Thank you for the response. I can understand your conservative in nature approach to remotely tuning hundreds of engines, but there is so much knowledge and best practices already developed in this platform that you'd think it isn't so risky to run normal boost with what is seen as 'normal' timing.

Contrary to what seems to be happy balance of boost/timing, you're going to higher boost and very low timing. I agree it can be safer for the engine to take this approach, but is it really that much of a risk? Also- would you ever suggest your customers go out onto a road course pushing more boost/lower timing (which instantly equals more heat)? If you'll agree that more boost/less timing = high egts, then I fail to see the logic in doing that to an engine that you are trying to keep 'happy'

If you are planning on saying with high boost, lets say 19psi, and eventually bringing timing up to "normal" timing (without meth), then that would be more agreeable; yet also considerably more aggressive. However- I doubt we'll ever see the day where you can pull off 19psi with 10* midrange timing. I've been proven wrong before, and I would absolutely love it if you'd prove me wrong with this....because that will mean one powerful N54!



Also- You've mentioned pump-only (no meth) there is more torque to be had by going above 18.5psi. Are you sure about that? Most of procede users (at 17ishpsi) have been getting a flat 440tq curve...my car getting 445. Do you have any dynos to prove that this is possible?

Here are the results i'm referencing:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...t=dyno+results

Edit: Just found posts of a 135 that made 460tq, which is awesome... are there more dynos of these types of results? (basically none in the N54 section) http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=601665
I very much appreciate your discussion and giving me the opportunity to educate the community to our philosophy. Lately I have been very busy behind the scene keeping me from the community.

Being an engineer I don't often go off of what others do. That and being a stubborn German/Irish fellow. It is most certainly important to listen to the trends as others have done work that can be piggie backed off of. In the end we go off of the data I and or my team collects and validates.

When I tune I let the motor tell me what it wants via many avenues. One of the avenues is timing. I like to get a timing curve that can be push up to minimum best timing (MBT) or the limit of the fuel for a giving boost curve. Once I find either limit, I back down a bit for safety. MBT can be found by advancing timing little by little on a tool that can read power output until the added timing results in little or no gain. When the limit of the fuel is reached the knock control system will begin to protect the motor and/or power will become unstable run to run. An unstable flame front can be discovered via audible means or pressure sensors. Either way it's time to back off.

As I said before there are different tuning philosophies out there. My experience has taught me timing kills motors. Sure they feel great right up until that bad event. Motors can be at their strongest right before they break. When they go via detonation you have broken ring lands, crushed spark plugs, blow head gaskets, crushed bearing, holes in blocks, etc. Not a pretty thing. Again this is my preference in tuning.

Don't worry there will be BMW ProTuners all over the world here very soon with all kinds of different tunes and flavors to choose from their mail maps to full on custom tunes for your setup and motor. Check out EFI Logic's results as he's running boost and timing on a custom tune (Chris is an amazing tuner btw). On top of that we will continue to add features and the ability to tune until 1000+ whp N54s are running around just like the GT-R market.

A quick touch on boost above 18.5 psi. I'm very sure there is more power to be had with higher boost. It's a very simple test when you have tuning software and a dyno at your disposal. We make 440-460wtq on our conservative mustang running 19-20 psi where the N54 is most efficient.

Honestly, I will let the product speak for itself. If customers let us know our product is inferior, we have the drive and the hunger to make it better than anything out there. Of that you can be sure.

Cheers,
Rob
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
135i cobb, 335i cobb, 535i cobb, accessport n54, bmw cobb, bmw cobb tuning, cobb 135i, cobb 335i, cobb 535i, cobb ap, cobb bmw, cobb n54, cobb tuning bmw, cobb tuning n54, cobb tuning n55, flash n54, flash n55, n54 accessport, n54 cobb, n54 cobb tuning, n54 flash, n54 flash tune, n55 cobb, n55 flash, n55 flash tune

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:48 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST