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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > All COBB Tuning AccessPORT Flash for N54 335i Discussion Here



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      02-22-2012, 10:52 PM   #3961
Rob@Cobb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rader1 View Post
I believe yuchi's dyno was optimistic. There is another vid of the same dyno with a different 135i making very similar power, either it's 2 factory freaks or a high reading dyno. Most OTS stage 2+ maps are around the 420rwtq-440rwtq mark depending on which particular dynojet. I run Cobb, but i'm not a fanbois and i'll gladly admit when something is askew.
Yes Sir, those are crowd pleasing numbers.

Cheers,
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      02-22-2012, 11:09 PM   #3962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@Cobb View Post
I very much appreciate your discussion and giving me the opportunity to educate the community to our philosophy. Lately I have been very busy behind the scene keeping me from the community.

Being an engineer I don't often go off of what others do. That and being a stubborn German/Irish fellow. It is most certainly important to listen to the trends as others have done work that can be piggie backed off of. In the end we go off of the data I and or my team collects and validates.

When I tune I let the motor tell me what it wants via many avenues. One of the avenues is timing. I like to get a timing curve that can be push up to minimum best timing (MBT) or the limit of the fuel for a giving boost curve. Once I find either limit, I back down a bit for safety. MBT can be found by advancing timing little by little on a tool that can read power output until the added timing results in little or no gain. When the limit of the fuel is reached the knock control system will begin to protect the motor and/or power will become unstable run to run. An unstable flame front can be discovered via audible means or pressure sensors. Either way it's time to back off.

As I said before there are different tuning philosophies out there. My experience has taught me timing kills motors. Sure they feel great right up until that bad event. Motors can be at their strongest right before they break. When they go via detonation you have broken ring lands, crushed spark plugs, blow head gaskets, crushed bearing, holes in blocks, etc. Not a pretty thing. Again this is my preference in tuning.

Don't worry there will be BMW ProTuners all over the world here very soon with all kinds of different tunes and flavors to choose from their mail maps to full on custom tunes for your setup and motor. Check out EFI Logic's results as he's running boost and timing on a custom tune (Chris is an amazing tuner btw). On top of that we will continue to add features and the ability to tune until 1000+ whp N54s are running around just like the GT-R market.

A quick touch on boost above 18.5 psi. I'm very sure there is more power to be had with higher boost. It's a very simple test when you have tuning software and a dyno at your disposal. We make 440-460wtq on our conservative mustang running 19-20 psi where the N54 is most efficient.

Honestly, I will let the product speak for itself. If customers let us know our product is inferior, we have the drive and the hunger to make it better than anything out there. Of that you can be sure.

Cheers,
Rob
Thank you for a great explanation to your tuning philosophy. Unfortunately, the PROcede owner/creator thinks otherwise. It would be good to have a healthy debate on this subject, but I don't think it will ever happen on this forum with this forum's history.
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      02-22-2012, 11:30 PM   #3963
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Originally Posted by Rob@Cobb View Post
When I tune I let the motor tell me what it wants via many avenues......
This statement is golden...
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      02-23-2012, 07:35 AM   #3964
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Brian you keep questioning Cobb's methods, why not just get one and try for yourself or if you already have one and have problems with it then i would suggest you contact them privately or take it to the support threads, otherwise i see no point on continuously challenging their methods. If you want to run more timing and less boost who's stopping you?????? that option is out there, we cobb users want less timing more boost and we love itttttttttttttt. Hey procede and Jb4 have already copied this too, you know that..
3rd point, if you have the AP and you want to run however you want to run, then wait for ATR/ATP and run whatever.
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      02-23-2012, 07:40 AM   #3965
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@Cobb View Post
I very much appreciate your discussion and giving me the opportunity to educate the community to our philosophy. Lately I have been very busy behind the scene keeping me from the community.

Being an engineer I don't often go off of what others do. That and being a stubborn German/Irish fellow. It is most certainly important to listen to the trends as others have done work that can be piggie backed off of. In the end we go off of the data I and or my team collects and validates.

When I tune I let the motor tell me what it wants via many avenues. One of the avenues is timing. I like to get a timing curve that can be push up to minimum best timing (MBT) or the limit of the fuel for a giving boost curve. Once I find either limit, I back down a bit for safety. MBT can be found by advancing timing little by little on a tool that can read power output until the added timing results in little or no gain. When the limit of the fuel is reached the knock control system will begin to protect the motor and/or power will become unstable run to run. An unstable flame front can be discovered via audible means or pressure sensors. Either way it's time to back off.

As I said before there are different tuning philosophies out there. My experience has taught me timing kills motors. Sure they feel great right up until that bad event. Motors can be at their strongest right before they break. When they go via detonation you have broken ring lands, crushed spark plugs, blow head gaskets, crushed bearing, holes in blocks, etc. Not a pretty thing. Again this is my preference in tuning.

Don't worry there will be BMW ProTuners all over the world here very soon with all kinds of different tunes and flavors to choose from their mail maps to full on custom tunes for your setup and motor. Check out EFI Logic's results as he's running boost and timing on a custom tune (Chris is an amazing tuner btw). On top of that we will continue to add features and the ability to tune until 1000+ whp N54s are running around just like the GT-R market.

A quick touch on boost above 18.5 psi. I'm very sure there is more power to be had with higher boost. It's a very simple test when you have tuning software and a dyno at your disposal. We make 440-460wtq on our conservative mustang running 19-20 psi where the N54 is most efficient.

Honestly, I will let the product speak for itself. If customers let us know our product is inferior, we have the drive and the hunger to make it better than anything out there. Of that you can be sure.

Cheers,
Rob
You need to employ someone to do the forum part for you while you spend the time on the tuning
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      02-23-2012, 07:51 AM   #3966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@Cobb View Post
Honestly, I will let the product speak for itself. If customers let us know our product is inferior, we have the drive and the hunger to make it better than anything out there. Of that you can be sure.

Cheers,
Rob
This statement is why I went with Cobb from the beginning stages and they continue to improve and perfect their tune. For those of you who are on the fence, this statement should help with your decision.
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      02-23-2012, 09:04 AM   #3967
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Is there going to be changes to the map 1 91 octane stock map? Im on the fence about getting the Cobb flash now or possibly waiting till the best possible map for a stock 335i. I would like to keep the car completely stock except tune and shock/spring/sway upgrades.
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      02-23-2012, 09:20 AM   #3968
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all maps will be revised and get a new version.
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      02-23-2012, 10:28 AM   #3969
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Rob,

Is Cobb offering custom ATR tunes?
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      02-23-2012, 11:12 AM   #3970
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
You need to employ someone to do the forum part for you while you spend the time on the tuning
Right!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JStang View Post
This statement is why I went with Cobb from the beginning stages and they continue to improve and perfect their tune. For those of you who are on the fence, this statement should help with your decision.
Thank you very much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jblaze4lif View Post
Is there going to be changes to the map 1 91 octane stock map? Im on the fence about getting the Cobb flash now or possibly waiting till the best possible map for a stock 335i. I would like to keep the car completely stock except tune and shock/spring/sway upgrades.
Most certainly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nafoo View Post
Rob,

Is Cobb offering custom ATR tunes?
We don't tune many customer cars at the R&D facility in Austin. The engineers pretty much take up all the dyno time. PM me.

Cheers,
Rob
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      02-23-2012, 11:15 AM   #3971
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Quote:
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You need to employ someone to do the forum part for you while you spend the time on the tuning
I'll happily volunteer
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      02-23-2012, 11:47 AM   #3972
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When is the updated map 1 91 octane being released? What are some of the changes and why were they done? How long is a new map tested before release?
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      02-23-2012, 11:51 AM   #3973
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Quote:
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When is the updated map 1 91 octane being released? What are some of the changes and why were they done? How long is a new map tested before release?


SOON
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      02-23-2012, 12:11 PM   #3974
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ATP removed from the website????
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      02-23-2012, 01:23 PM   #3975
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Update please on everything? When are my special super duper power maps be released?

:-)
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      02-23-2012, 01:58 PM   #3976
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Update please on everything? When are my special super duper power maps be released?

:-)
*Insert Sarcasm*

Rumor has it that these maps alone will make more hp than the Vishnu single turbo project without any supporting mods. $hit is going to be earth shattering!

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      02-23-2012, 02:01 PM   #3977
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JStang View Post
Rumor has it that these maps alone will make more hp than the Vishnu single turbo project without any supporting mods. $hit is going to be earth shattering!

But Vishnu put down 627whp...?
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      02-23-2012, 02:12 PM   #3978
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But Vishnu put down 627whp...?
Edited.
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      02-23-2012, 02:20 PM   #3979
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Rumor has it the COBB 335i has so much torque it spins the Earth backwards instead of propelling the car forwards.

And also, that's just the stage 1 maps.
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      02-23-2012, 02:27 PM   #3980
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Rumor has it the COBB 335i has so much torque it spins the Earth backwards instead of propelling the car forwards.

And also, that's just the stage 1 maps.
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      02-23-2012, 03:23 PM   #3981
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When is the updated map 1 91 octane being released? What are some of the changes and why were they done? How long is a new map tested before release?
Sometime next week I would guess. Jason is finishing the creations of all the maps. So far we have been testing these maps for a while now. There was one little issue holding them back that has now been fixed and will also be incorporated into the Stage 2+FMIC mapping.

The initial release will be beta, but you are more than welcome to try the mapping. It is safe.

Cheers,
Rob
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      02-23-2012, 03:24 PM   #3982
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Just curious.... do you guys hit F5 on the Cobb Maps page?
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