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      11-12-2012, 10:16 AM   #6491
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Lean AFR on Spool

If I could change the subject for a moment, I would like to talk about a lean condition on spooling. I looked around different forums and this has been discussed as a phenomenon related to some different types of tunes. I could not find much related to Cobb.

So I'm running Stage 1 Aggressive on 93 octane that has been tweaked by me to avoid boost overshoots. When I have been doing my WOT runs I usually start around 2000 rpm and go for it. I am set to use the spool fuel tables up to 3000 rpm like most of us. I noticed that my actual load can get in the high 100s during spool and that my AFR will go as high as about 16.1 and then it will start dropping after I get out of spool mode and hit about 12.2 in the higher RPM range.

Is this condition during spool where I hit 15 to low 16s AFR a reason for concern? I am working with someone at Cobb who is having me go into ATR and at the highest loads (in the Fuel (spool) table) up to 3500 rpm I am dropping the requested AFR by about 0.5 to 0.4 to try to richen things up a bit. Attached is a log from yesterday that shows what I'm talking about. I even logged fuel mode to show that my high AFRs happen in fuel mode "20", or spool mode. Any advice is appreciated. I need to do some more runs with my AFR richened up in the spool table if you guys think it is necessary to richen things up.
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      11-12-2012, 10:47 AM   #6492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS300 View Post
If I could change the subject for a moment, I would like to talk about a lean condition on spooling. I looked around different forums and this has been discussed as a phenomenon related to some different types of tunes. I could not find much related to Cobb.

So I'm running Stage 1 Aggressive on 93 octane that has been tweaked by me to avoid boost overshoots. When I have been doing my WOT runs I usually start around 2000 rpm and go for it. I am set to use the spool fuel tables up to 3000 rpm like most of us. I noticed that my actual load can get in the high 100s during spool and that my AFR will go as high as about 16.1 and then it will start dropping after I get out of spool mode and hit about 12.2 in the higher RPM range.

Is this condition during spool where I hit 15 to low 16s AFR a reason for concern? I am working with someone at Cobb who is having me go into ATR and at the highest loads (in the Fuel (spool) table) up to 3500 rpm I am dropping the requested AFR by about 0.5 to 0.4 to try to richen things up a bit. Attached is a log from yesterday that shows what I'm talking about. I even logged fuel mode to show that my high AFRs happen in fuel mode "20", or spool mode. Any advice is appreciated. I need to do some more runs with my AFR richened up in the spool table if you guys think it is necessary to richen things up.
Since I can't attached items, I can email you my S1 agg. logs if you like? to compare?
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      11-12-2012, 10:48 AM   #6493
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Spool mode is there to help "spool" the turbos. You can richen up the AFRs if you want to, you're not going to see any ill effects. In fact, you can completely disable spool mode if you want.
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      11-12-2012, 10:53 AM   #6494
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When you say that you can disable "spool mode" are you referring to disabling "lean spool mode" in ATR? If so, then that is disabled by default and I have never run "lean spool" mode. I don't think I would want to disable any other type of spool mode, but I would feel more comfortable if I did not hit 16 AFR.
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      11-12-2012, 11:21 AM   #6495
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I've gone back and forth between standard spool mode and reducing it down to 500rpm to effectively remove it. At this point I think it's more for emissions than to actually improve spool. I prefer no spool mode and AFRs down at or below 13:1 from the moment I hit the gas.
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      11-12-2012, 11:24 AM   #6496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Morris View Post
I've gone back and forth between standard spool mode and reducing it down to 500rpm to effectively remove it. At this point I think it's more for emissions than to actually improve spool. I prefer no spool mode and AFRs down at or below 13:1 from the moment I hit the gas.

Interesting. So are you basically disabling lean spool mode and setting the Spool Mode Max RPM to 500? This is the only way I can see how you would pretty much eliminate spool mode.
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      11-12-2012, 11:28 AM   #6497
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I tried disabling via the Cobb checkbox and it didn't seem to actually disable it to me. Lowering the rpm DID seem to disable it for me. Then you can adjust your main fuel tables and actually see the expected changes if desired.
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      11-12-2012, 01:18 PM   #6498
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS300 View Post
When you say that you can disable "spool mode" are you referring to disabling "lean spool mode" in ATR? If so, then that is disabled by default and I have never run "lean spool" mode. I don't think I would want to disable any other type of spool mode, but I would feel more comfortable if I did not hit 16 AFR.

Sure you can email me some Stage 1 logs. Michael.Shrallow@gmail.com. Thanks!
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      11-12-2012, 01:37 PM   #6499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Morris View Post
I tried disabling via the Cobb checkbox and it didn't seem to actually disable it to me. Lowering the rpm DID seem to disable it for me. Then you can adjust your main fuel tables and actually see the expected changes if desired.
This is what I was talking about.
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      11-12-2012, 02:39 PM   #6500
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What's been your experience with gas mileage (not that this is the primary concern of performance tuners) after disabling spool mode? When it's warm outside I'm getting around 21 to 22 mpg with maybe 75% highway and 25% city driving in a week. I'm just curious how bad the gas mileage tanks with richening up the fuel mixture.
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      11-12-2012, 03:53 PM   #6501
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COBB Customer Service

Had some issues with my Cobb AP locking up today due to a corrupt file.

Just wanted to give to give some feedback as to the outstanding service ERIC with Cobb has given today.

Thanks Eric.
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      11-12-2012, 05:06 PM   #6502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS300 View Post
What's been your experience with gas mileage (not that this is the primary concern of performance tuners) after disabling spool mode? When it's warm outside I'm getting around 21 to 22 mpg with maybe 75% highway and 25% city driving in a week. I'm just curious how bad the gas mileage tanks with richening up the fuel mixture.
My Pro E-Tune E50 MAPs I am getting about 15-16 mpgs. Depending on how I drive.

on the freeway, not much better, about high 16 mpgs.

I am still collecting data and averaging it out.
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      11-12-2012, 05:34 PM   #6503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS300 View Post
What's been your experience with gas mileage (not that this is the primary concern of performance tuners) after disabling spool mode? When it's warm outside I'm getting around 21 to 22 mpg with maybe 75% highway and 25% city driving in a week. I'm just curious how bad the gas mileage tanks with richening up the fuel mixture.
I have such huge variations in gas mileage due to ethanol percentage that I don't notice changes due to spool mode. In my normal driving routine I only get about 230 miles from a tank of straight E85, where I get close to 350 from a tank of gasoline. I may drive harder on the E85 :-).
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      11-12-2012, 07:31 PM   #6504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Morris View Post
I have such huge variations in gas mileage due to ethanol percentage that I don't notice changes due to spool mode. In my normal driving routine I only get about 230 miles from a tank of straight E85, where I get close to 350 from a tank of gasoline. I may drive harder on the E85 :-).
+1,

i am getting near 230 around 1/4 tank.
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      11-12-2012, 07:38 PM   #6505
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Is anything new planned for Cobb? Haven't heard of anything in a while. Then again I hardly come into this thread have I missed anything? New maps? No lift shift? Anything?
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      11-12-2012, 09:53 PM   #6506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickkg37s View Post
Is anything new planned for Cobb? Haven't heard of anything in a while. Then again I hardly come into this thread have I missed anything? New maps? No lift shift? Anything?
They're focusing on the N55 COBB Tune (proof: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=768977). At this point, there really isn't anything more we could at this time besides minor updates.

Think about what we've got just in 2012:
  • ATR Tuning
  • ProTuning Maps
  • E30 Maps
  • Race Gas Maps
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      11-12-2012, 11:18 PM   #6507
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I wish they would work on the 2-step/NLTS. I realize us 6MT guys are a small minority, but it's a huge deal for us. Unfortunately the factory code doesn't use fuel cut for the rev limiter (it uses throttle closure), so it will take some major work to get it right for us. I wouldn't be surprised if I have to just get a WOTBox instead.
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      11-13-2012, 12:37 PM   #6508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Morris View Post
I wish they would work on the 2-step/NLTS. I realize us 6MT guys are a small minority, but it's a huge deal for us. Unfortunately the factory code doesn't use fuel cut for the rev limiter (it uses throttle closure), so it will take some major work to get it right for us. I wouldn't be surprised if I have to just get a WOTBox instead.
Exactly I'm dying for NLS, and also have been thinking about gettin a WOT box. I really dont want to have to splice wires though. They offer NLS on there Subi's and on the Mazda's I hear wit works real well for them.
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      11-13-2012, 12:38 PM   #6509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benzy89 View Post
They're focusing on the N55 COBB Tune (proof: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=768977). At this point, there really isn't anything more we could at this time besides minor updates.

Think about what we've got just in 2012:
  • ATR Tuning
  • ProTuning Maps
  • E30 Maps
  • Race Gas Maps
I 100% agree they have released a lot I'm mostly concerned with NLS!
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      11-13-2012, 01:26 PM   #6510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickkg37s View Post
I 100% agree they have released a lot I'm mostly concerned with NLS!
Just get a WOTBox, it works great and can easily be sold since it works for most manufacturers.
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      11-14-2012, 12:33 AM   #6511
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Hey guys, I just installed my AP for the first time. While installing, I got all sorts of error messages (brake malfunction, dsc malfunction, engine malfunction, transmission malfunction, etc...) which I think is to be expected. Once the flashing was complete, I cycled the car off, then on and I immediately got the brake malfunction message again. It quickly went away and I drove around the block to make sure that everything was ok.

The accelerator and brake pedal seemed to have increased in stiffness by 100% lol. I know I am not crazy. The car drives like a dream, but the pedals feel so stiff! What's up with that? Is this all in my head?
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      11-14-2012, 12:42 AM   #6512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wes. View Post
Hey guys, I just installed my AP for the first time. While installing, I got all sorts of error messages (brake malfunction, dsc malfunction, engine malfunction, transmission malfunction, etc...) which I think is to be expected. Once the flashing was complete, I cycled the car off, then on and I immediately got the brake malfunction message again. It quickly went away and I drove around the block to make sure that everything was ok.

The accelerator and brake pedal seemed to have increased in stiffness by 100% lol. I know I am not crazy. The car drives like a dream, but the pedals feel so stiff! What's up with that? Is this all in my head?
Hey buddy, congrats on your new tune.

Error codes during flashing are expected and should all go away.

As far as pedal stiffness, it is definitely in your head it's probably how the car moves with pedal input that's throwing you off. You'll get use to it.
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