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      05-12-2013, 11:02 PM   #7657
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It took a few WOT pulls to get the adaptations down, but I just tried the E30 race mapping for the first time, and it is indeed awesome. Allows for much more optimal advance than the Stg2+ maps, and so far so good on trims/afr/fuel pump psi. Good stuff.
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      05-13-2013, 10:19 AM   #7658
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Originally Posted by 335XI///M View Post
Sweet!

Here is a better log attached here, 3rd & 4th all the way to redline. Also this one got the LTFT & STFT readings, looks like I may not even need to fiddle with the fueling, although the cobb manual help guide you pointed me to has a special table for Fuel Scalar adjustment to any E mixture you have. Looks super easy to change!

Please let me know what you think of my logs, and thank you very much!
Is there any way you can just creat a .zip folder and the put a copy of the original csv in that folder and attach it? i've tried downloading that several times and no matter what i do it just ends up jumbled whenever i open it.
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      05-13-2013, 08:14 PM   #7659
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https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0DO...it?usp=sharing

Attached is an E30 log I took last night, granted it's not perfect from a rev standpoint, but I think it shows the overall picture. All in all it seems to be a pretty clean log, but the effect of E85 on the fueling system is obvious in comparison to 93 pump, even at a relatively modest E30 mixture. Any insight would be much appreciated, thanks!

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      05-13-2013, 11:07 PM   #7660
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Originally Posted by 135Pats View Post
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0DO...it?usp=sharing

Attached is an E30 log I took last night, granted it's not perfect from a rev standpoint, but I think it shows the overall picture. All in all it seems to be a pretty clean log, but the effect of E85 on the fueling system is obvious in comparison to 93 pump, even at a relatively modest E30 mixture. Any insight would be much appreciated, thanks!

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Dude, how did you do that google doc share? I cant use zip because the free trial is up and they want $30 now...

I looked at your log, if I can get my damn logs up in a readable format you could compare because I have 2 logs I want to share 1 with just Stg 1+ Sport and E25 mix, the other with the same program, but I messed with the fuel scalar. I think it was actually better BEFORE I changed it to account for the E25... I've already unflashed the custimized map I did and put the OTS map back on... Trims were much better before fiddling with the fuel scalar.

What is the difference between LTFT and STFT?

Your LTFT readings are far better on that E30 map than either of my 2 runs, but your STFT's are in the 20's and mine are in the negatives? Wtf?
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      05-13-2013, 11:41 PM   #7661
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docs.google.com

LTFT= Long Term Fuel Trim
STFT= Short Term Fuel Trim

To be honest i'm not sure how the two correspond to each other, but I do know that if you run out of trim (34) you risk leaning out. AFRs look very stable in my log so that doesn't appear to be an issue here. And the LPFP appears to be struggling...but that's what I want to see what others have to say!
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      05-13-2013, 11:57 PM   #7662
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135Pats View Post
docs.google.com

LTFT= Long Term Fuel Trim
STFT= Short Term Fuel Trim

To be honest i'm not sure how the two correspond to each other, but I do know that if you run out of trim (34) you risk leaning out. AFRs look very stable in my log so that doesn't appear to be an issue here. And the LPFP appears to be struggling...but that's what I want to see what others have to say!
Edit: Column S in your log is the LPFP requested PSI - 72, Column T is the actual PSI, which in your log is <72 most of the time. So yes your LPFP is not hitting the target PSI which is not good.

Hmmmm I need to do another log now and see how the fuel pumps in mine are doing...
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      05-14-2013, 12:22 AM   #7663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135Pats View Post
docs.google.com

LTFT= Long Term Fuel Trim
STFT= Short Term Fuel Trim

To be honest i'm not sure how the two correspond to each other, but I do know that if you run out of trim (34) you risk leaning out. AFRs look very stable in my log so that doesn't appear to be an issue here. And the LPFP appears to be struggling...but that's what I want to see what others have to say!
STFT refer to the instantaneous correction to fuel output, while LTFT refers to corrections over a longer time.

For example, if your STFTs were sitting at 5% all the time, as in you adding fuel to hit your AFRs, then your LTFT would be 5% and stft would go to 0% and use that added 5% as base now.

This is at least how I understood a while back.

anyway STFT is what I look at and care about since like you said it pretty much sums up whether we are ok or not fueling wise and also how far of not being OK
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      05-14-2013, 03:32 PM   #7664
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marv85 View Post
STFT refer to the instantaneous correction to fuel output, while LTFT refers to corrections over a longer time.

For example, if your STFTs were sitting at 5% all the time, as in you adding fuel to hit your AFRs, then your LTFT would be 5% and stft would go to 0% and use that added 5% as base now.

This is at least how I understood a while back.

anyway STFT is what I look at and care about since like you said it pretty much sums up whether we are ok or not fueling wise and also how far of not being OK
Gotcha, makes sense.

So clearly my LPFP is getting its ass kicked, my question is, how much? The rest of the log (AFRs, timing corr., timing, boost) look pretty damn good IMO, so is my low pressure pump getting beat on to a point where this map cannot be run safely? If so I need a walbro asap, because this map blows Stg2+ out of the water.
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      05-14-2013, 04:11 PM   #7665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135Pats View Post
Gotcha, makes sense.

So clearly my LPFP is getting its ass kicked, my question is, how much? The rest of the log (AFRs, timing corr., timing, boost) look pretty damn good IMO, so is my low pressure pump getting beat on to a point where this map cannot be run safely? If so I need a walbro asap, because this map blows Stg2+ out of the water.
TBH I have not looked at your logs and I'm at work now so it won;t be easy.

however what is your LPFP pressure at? min value?

I haven't read through all the pages so refresh my mind. What are you worried about? maxing your fuel trims? or LPFP pressure (I understand they're related but just want to know what triggered this)
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      05-14-2013, 04:37 PM   #7666
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Originally Posted by marv85 View Post
TBH I have not looked at your logs and I'm at work now so it won;t be easy.

however what is your LPFP pressure at? min value?

I haven't read through all the pages so refresh my mind. What are you worried about? maxing your fuel trims? or LPFP pressure (I understand they're related but just want to know what triggered this)
I'm at work too so I can't view the log, IIRC the "worst" LPFP psi was around 50, but don't quote me on it. Either way, it was failing to meet requested psi for extended periods of time, HPFP psi seemed to be doing pretty well. My specific concern is LPFP psi, fuel trims seem to be fine, nothing approaches 34. And everything else looks great, i'm not even in the ballpark of leaning out AFR wise, so my biggest concern with E85 mixes doesn't appear to be an issue here. Let me know what you think when you get some time to view it (obviously not urgent), thanks for the help. Anecdotally, the car is running mint.
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      05-14-2013, 04:42 PM   #7667
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135Pats View Post
I'm at work too so I can't view the log, IIRC the "worst" LPFP psi was around 50, but don't quote me on it. Either way, it was failing to meet requested psi for extended periods of time, HPFP psi seemed to be doing pretty well. My specific concern is LPFP psi, fuel trims seem to be fine, nothing approaches 34. And everything else looks great, i'm not even in the ballpark of leaning out AFR wise, so my biggest concern with E85 mixes doesn't appear to be an issue here. Let me know what you think when you get some time to view it (obviously not urgent), thanks for the help. Anecdotally, the car is running mint.
50 is pretty low though even if your HPFP is still fine meth can help btw, the DME will go negative on trims making the job of your LPFP easier. the only solution is an inline or upgraded pump
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      05-14-2013, 05:23 PM   #7668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marv85 View Post
50 is pretty low though even if your HPFP is still fine meth can help btw, the DME will go negative on trims making the job of your LPFP easier. the only solution is an inline or upgraded pump
I think a LPFP solution is the way I'll be going (thankfully an inline doesn't seem to be a super difficult job), I'm not a huge fan of meth as fueling bandaid, though I understand the benefits it can provide. Ultimately I'd like to go to RB or VTT Stg2 snails using E40-50 with no meth, my hope is that with a not insanely aggressive protune, I can get something in the neighborhood of 450whp without Meth. It sounds like until then i'll have to stay away from the E30 maps as they're constructed, which is a bummer seeing as how much the motor clearly likes the additional octane and knock resistance (with regards to timing corrections and whatnot).

Edit: I guess the best way to ask my question is this- if trims and AFRs look good (in addition to the "normal" things we log), is it still a poor choice to run the E30 map? So far as I can tell, the LPFP PSI is the only issue with my log.
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      05-14-2013, 05:31 PM   #7669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135Pats View Post
I think a LPFP solution is the way I'll be going (thankfully an inline doesn't seem to be a super difficult job), I'm not a huge fan of meth as fueling bandaid, though I understand the benefits it can provide. Ultimately I'd like to go to RB or VTT Stg2 snails using E40-50 with no meth, my hope is that with a not insanely aggressive protune, I can get something in the neighborhood of 450whp without Meth. It sounds like until then i'll have to stay away from the E30 maps as they're constructed, which is a bummer seeing as how much the motor clearly likes the additional octane and knock resistance (with regards to timing corrections and whatnot).

Edit: I guess the best way to ask my question is this- if trims and AFRs look good (in addition to the "normal" things we log), is it still a poor choice to run the E30 map? So far as I can tell, the LPFP PSI is the only issue with my log.
Looking at your log i would say you're fine with the E30 mix you're running now but i would go absolutely no higher. For most tuners the magic low pressure number to maintain is 50psi and that's where you are now. However, like it sounds like you've already decided, i would still go for an upgraded LPFP because i don't like running anything at what's considered the acceptable limit. It's always better to have plenty fueling left over just in case, especially when the upgraded LPFPs can be had for pretty cheap.
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      05-14-2013, 05:45 PM   #7670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ænema View Post
Looking at your log i would say you're fine with the E30 mix you're running now but i would go absolutely no higher. For most tuners the magic low pressure number to maintain is 50psi and that's where you are now. However, like it sounds like you've already decided, i would still go for an upgraded LPFP because i don't like running anything at what's considered the acceptable limit. It's always better to have plenty fueling left over just in case, especially when the upgraded LPFPs can be had for pretty cheap.
Thanks for chiming in, that's more or less how I felt about the log. Pretty awesome what it does for timing corrections, wow. Actually, I'm probably running more like E35 right now, I filled a bit on the generous side (figure better to run a little tight on trim than run too aggressive a map w/o sufficient octane). I'll get E30 on the nose next time I fill and see if that does anything. At this point it looks like the Walbro options are pretty tried and true, so unless there are huge cost issues that I don't know of, that will be the route I take from here. Meth just scares me as a fueling solution, gotta be honest.
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      05-14-2013, 06:10 PM   #7671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135Pats View Post
Thanks for chiming in, that's more or less how I felt about the log. Pretty awesome what it does for timing corrections, wow. Actually, I'm probably running more like E35 right now, I filled a bit on the generous side (figure better to run a little tight on trim than run too aggressive a map w/o sufficient octane). I'll get E30 on the nose next time I fill and see if that does anything. At this point it looks like the Walbro options are pretty tried and true, so unless there are huge cost issues that I don't know of, that will be the route I take from here. Meth just scares me as a fueling solution, gotta be honest.
I'm a big fan of meth for all of it's other benefits and the fueling headroom it provides is just a bonus. No matter how much octane you have, come summer time you're still going to be giving up a lot of timing due to CATs and there's not much even the best intercooler can do. Chemical cooling FTW lol
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      05-14-2013, 07:11 PM   #7672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ænema View Post
I'm a big fan of meth for all of it's other benefits and the fueling headroom it provides is just a bonus. No matter how much octane you have, come summer time you're still going to be giving up a lot of timing due to CATs and there's not much even the best intercooler can do. Chemical cooling FTW lol
+1000. especially when going for a track event (laps more so than drag) you will be limited by your IATs and not your octane(assuming you have enough octane).

you can always flatten out the timing compensation due to IATs but I am not comfortable doing that.

135pats, I know you got your answer and I concur with Anema on not running more ethanol. For a first order, you stop adding ethanol, when you get to the point where your dropping LPFP starts causing issue with your HPFP and you start leaning out.
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      05-14-2013, 11:42 PM   #7673
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Is there any way you can just creat a .zip folder and the put a copy of the original csv in that folder and attach it? i've tried downloading that several times and no matter what i do it just ends up jumbled whenever i open it.
Google Docs FTW! Lol

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B34S...it?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B34S...it?usp=sharing

Here are 2 logs, the first was the regular Stg 1 + Sport map with E25 fuel, the bottom log, run 6 was with the same map but with the fuel scalar adjusted according to the cobb table for an E25 mixture. I think the first one looks better before I adjusted it?

What do you guys think in general? I dont have any logs on regular ACN 91 to share, but hopefully the info in these logs is enough to see how the car is running.

Thanks for your input to anyone who takes a peek!
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      05-15-2013, 02:10 AM   #7674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335XI///M View Post
Google Docs FTW! Lol

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B34S...it?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B34S...it?usp=sharing

Here are 2 logs, the first was the regular Stg 1 + Sport map with E25 fuel, the bottom log, run 6 was with the same map but with the fuel scalar adjusted according to the cobb table for an E25 mixture. I think the first one looks better before I adjusted it?

What do you guys think in general? I dont have any logs on regular ACN 91 to share, but hopefully the info in these logs is enough to see how the car is running.

Thanks for your input to anyone who takes a peek!
Your Goigle Docs require permission.
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      05-15-2013, 04:55 AM   #7675
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Originally Posted by 335XI///M View Post
Google Docs FTW! Lol

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B34S...it?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B34S...it?usp=sharing

Here are 2 logs, the first was the regular Stg 1 + Sport map with E25 fuel, the bottom log, run 6 was with the same map but with the fuel scalar adjusted according to the cobb table for an E25 mixture. I think the first one looks better before I adjusted it?

What do you guys think in general? I dont have any logs on regular ACN 91 to share, but hopefully the info in these logs is enough to see how the car is running.

Thanks for your input to anyone who takes a peek!
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Originally Posted by JHR View Post
Your Goigle Docs require permission.
Lol maybe the 3rd time will be the charm
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      05-15-2013, 11:16 AM   #7676
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LOL you're struggling to get these logs posted bud, make sure you set the google doc to "public" I think it's called, it allows anyone with the link to view and download the spreadsheet
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      05-15-2013, 01:45 PM   #7677
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what's wrong with attaching a .txt or .zip?

datalog1.csv.txt ???
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      05-15-2013, 01:55 PM   #7678
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what's wrong with attaching a .txt or .zip?

datalog1.csv.txt ???
+1, easiest way to do it. just put in an extension that the site has no problem with. anything would work, it doesn;t have to be a valid extension
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