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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > How does the size of our OEM turbos compare?



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      02-14-2007, 06:45 PM   #1
Red Star Rising
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How does the size of our OEM turbos compare?

Are our turbos bigger or smaller than the K03's that have been made so popular by VW/Audi?

And who the hell makes them??
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      02-14-2007, 07:03 PM   #2
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mitsubishi makes them i know that much
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      02-14-2007, 08:19 PM   #3
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The turbos are probably similarly sized to the turbos that were used in mitsu 3000GT's, where were TD04-9b turbos. A popular upgrade for those are TD04-13G's offered by Greddy for about $2K for the pair.

There are also tons of TD04-14B turbos lying around, they were used on 1G mitsubish eclipses, bigger than the fore-mentioned turbos, and their popular upgrades TD05-16G's can be purchased for $600 or so.

Flow comparisons:
TD04-9B 265 CFM @ 15 PSI
TD04-13G 360 CFM @ 15 PSI
TD04-14B 430 CFM @ 15 PSI
TD05-16G 520 CFM @ 15 PSI

Say if 2 stock 335i turbos maxing out around 10 psi at peak rpm probably means that the engine is ingests around 500-550CFM, so the TD04-9B is probably pretty close to the actual turbo size. Does anyone have turbo model or part number?


There's a good chance that some of the above turbos will bolt on to the stock manifold/exhaust housing combo, with some minor adjustment for compressor housing and WG actuator alignments.

Last edited by freddiemac; 02-14-2007 at 08:36 PM.
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      02-15-2007, 12:28 PM   #4
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Pretty sure the turbo exhaust housings are welded on to the manifolds, so there won't be a bolt on application without replacing the manifolds.
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      02-15-2007, 02:57 PM   #5
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According to an old C&D article, IHI is the turbo manufacturer:

http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtest...ecs-page2.html

has two small IHI turbochargers that each pressurize three cylinders with a maximum of about nine psi of boost.

IHI does not list an specific application or specifications on an initial look.

http://www.ihi.co.jp/ihi/products/products_11-e.html
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      02-15-2007, 02:58 PM   #6
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Pretty sure C&D made a mistake. The turbos are from Mitsubishi

-shiv
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      02-15-2007, 03:01 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Pretty sure C&D made a mistake. The turbos are from Mitsubishi

-shiv
I originally thought so also but had seen this mentioned twice. Have you been able to confirm that it is truly Mitsubishi and/or which model was used?
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      02-15-2007, 03:04 PM   #8
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Iirc E90fleet mentioned that there were several sources for the turbos (just like other parts). There are all OEM specs (not off the shelf) so it doesn't matter of MHI or IHI makes them, they're all (should be) the same design/specs.
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      02-15-2007, 03:07 PM   #9
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Just as an aside and not digging to deeply in IHI and Mitsubishi but there certainly seems to be a connection between the two companies.

1981 Japanese Aero Engines Corporation is established (jointly by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Ltd. and Kawasaki Heavy Industries, Ltd.).

That is taken from The History of IHI:

http://www.ihi.co.jp/ihi/gaikyo/enkaku/enkaku-e.html

As for their being a connection today,

Knowing the details would make it easier to know the actual specifications of the snails.
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      02-15-2007, 05:05 PM   #10
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Here is an interesting article on the development of the N54 (page 7) and the fact BMW developed the turbo with MHI.

http://www.sae.org/automag/techbrief...1-115-1-14.pdf

Pretty sure these guys make the turbo

http://www.mhimee.nl/action/showTurb...2&articleId=32
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      02-15-2007, 07:18 PM   #11
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Thanks for the links, good information!!
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      02-15-2007, 07:37 PM   #12
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If the TD04-13G is indeed an upgrade, that would be a very cost-effective way to go since that is the stock turbo for the WRX and guys are selling them slightly used for ~$200 all day long. I have a feeling that any turbo upgrade - even something as mild as the 13G - will feel laggy since the stock turbos are variable displacement, but better/catless dp could possibly help with this. Will be interesting to see over the next few months.

Jimbo
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      02-15-2007, 08:02 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by all8up View Post
Pretty sure the turbo exhaust housings are welded on to the manifolds, so there won't be a bolt on application without replacing the manifolds.
Actually it looks like the turbo exhaust housing and the manifold are casted as a one piece unit. But the turbo can be unmounted from the exhaust housing, as long as the new turbo center cartridge can bolt on to the exhaust housing, and the exhaust wheel fit (otherwise, the exahust housing will have to be modified). It'll work.
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      03-18-2007, 04:11 AM   #14
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Interested in finding out more info as well.
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      03-18-2007, 06:28 AM   #15
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So who's gonna be the first to hack up their N54 trying to squeeze a bit more juice? Hopefully the guinea pig will be as forthcoming with info as shiv was during development of the xede/procede. It'll be interesting to follow.
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      03-18-2007, 08:52 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Pretty sure C&D made a mistake. The turbos are from Mitsubishi

-shiv
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      03-18-2007, 09:06 AM   #17
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Developed with Mitsubishi

I believe the turbos were developed with Mitsubishi so IHI could be just a contract manufacturer.

Very likely BMW didn't want a Mitsubishi branded part in the heart of its engine.
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      03-18-2007, 09:16 AM   #18
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Read this article

An interview with the BMW program manager.....

Great perspective into how BMW views tuners and Udo is saying they are Mitsu turbos....

http://www.eurotuner.com/featuredveh...mw_335i_coupe/
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      03-18-2007, 11:37 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherhart View Post
If the TD04-13G is indeed an upgrade, that would be a very cost-effective way to go since that is the stock turbo for the WRX and guys are selling them slightly used for ~$200 all day long. I have a feeling that any turbo upgrade - even something as mild as the 13G - will feel laggy since the stock turbos are variable displacement, but better/catless dp could possibly help with this. Will be interesting to see over the next few months.

Jimbo
Jimbo,

You made a common comment. The thing is that a TD04-13G is very different from car to car. On a WRX application, the part that connects to the header(turbine housing) has a triangular shape with 3 bolts, moreoever the part(turbine housing) that connects to the downpipe has 5 bolts and it has a totally different shape.

A Dodge Stealth/VR4 can get a bolt-on upgrade from the oem 9bs to the TD04-13G but again, the turbos shapes are vastly different.

Another car that uses the TD04 are the Mitsubishi Eclipses, same flow caracteristics but bolts on to the header through a twin scroll header design and is shape differently on the o2 housing.

How do I know all that? well I had 4 Eclipses turbos, 2 Stealth TT and a WRX among xxxxxxx other turbo cars. I have had all these turbos on hand and installed some of them myself. I just don't want to explain myself more because I don't want to sound cocky.

As I mentioned before in a different topic, I strongly believe the way to go for a moderate set up would be to convert the existing turbos to a pair of 13G using the oem housing.

There are many companies that can and would do the conversion: Turbochargers.com, Forced performance,Deadboltenterprises,tec turbos just to name a few..

Carlos
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      03-18-2007, 11:44 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freddiemac View Post
The turbos are probably similarly sized to the turbos that were used in mitsu 3000GT's, where were TD04-9b turbos. A popular upgrade for those are TD04-13G's offered by Greddy for about $2K for the pair.

There are also tons of TD04-14B turbos lying around, they were used on 1G mitsubish eclipses, bigger than the fore-mentioned turbos, and their popular upgrades TD05-16G's can be purchased for $600 or so.

Flow comparisons:
TD04-9B 265 CFM @ 15 PSI
TD04-13G 360 CFM @ 15 PSI
TD04-14B 430 CFM @ 15 PSI
TD05-16G 520 CFM @ 15 PSI

Say if 2 stock 335i turbos maxing out around 10 psi at peak rpm probably means that the engine is ingests around 500-550CFM, so the TD04-9B is probably pretty close to the actual turbo size. Does anyone have turbo model or part number?


There's a good chance that some of the above turbos will bolt on to the stock manifold/exhaust housing combo, with some minor adjustment for compressor housing and WG actuator alignments.
Freddi,

Your information is fantastic (well known by me though). As far is the pricing, the 16G are cheaper, in fact the big 16G can be purchased for $440(forcedperformance), a Evo II turbo(upgrade version of the 16g) are in the low $500(Slowboyracing,extremepsi,etc).

Thanks for sharing the info with the forum though.

Carlos
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      03-19-2007, 12:51 AM   #21
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Anyone know if the 335i's turbos are twin scroll or not?

- LC
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      03-19-2007, 09:47 AM   #22
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Uhmm, I am inclined to say no since each turbo is feed by 3 cylinders. The fact that you have 3 cylinders per turbo it throws the equation off.

If it was a 4 cylinders then I can see it happening. Mostlikely all the header outlet merge into a main single one.

Carlos
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