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      01-13-2011, 01:23 AM   #23
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This does look like a great deal, and the temperature readings in your test were impressive. Kudos to RacingBrake.

Mr. 5, did you notice or measure (by chance) any significant change in brake pad use, either good or bad, for the Cool Carbons? I realize it would be very difficult to tell since it was only one day at Laguna Seca.

One more question, has RacingBrake considered a galvanic reaction between an aluminum hat and a steel rotor or are there galvanized surfaces or am I being paranoid? I guess steel (hat) to steel (rotor) corrosion and fusion is just as plausible. Most of us won't be removing and replacing the rotors very much, but this is by design!
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      01-13-2011, 01:29 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aleckzandr View Post
One more question, has RacingBrake considered a galvanic reaction between an aluminum hat and a steel rotor or are there galvanized surfaces or am I being paranoid? I guess steel (hat) to steel (rotor) corrosion and fusion is just as plausible. Most of us won't be removing and replacing the rotors very much, but this is by design!
THAT is why they call them "floating rotors." The rotor ring floats on top of the hub using fasteners that minimizes contact between the iron ring from the aluminum hub.

See diagram:



That's why the 2 piece rotors from BMW is inferior in that while it technically IS two piece, they're not floating rotors. True BMW floating rotors are those that comes on the E46 M3 CSL, ZCP, and MZ4.
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      01-13-2011, 01:35 PM   #25
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what an incredible write up!!!!
thank you for all your insight!
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      01-13-2011, 01:43 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
THAT is why they call them "floating rotors." The rotor ring floats on top of the hub using fasteners that minimizes contact between the iron ring from the aluminum hub.

See diagram:



That's why the 2 piece rotors from BMW is inferior in that while it technically IS two piece, they're not floating rotors. True BMW floating rotors are those that comes on the E46 M3 CSL, ZCP, and MZ4.
I agree except I believe that RacingBrake likes to refer to their rotors as "sliding rotors" because they have more of a sliding affect rather than a floating affect. They have an oblong hole to slide back ans forth.

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what an incredible write up!!!!
thank you for all your insight!
Thanks you sir.
I'm glad you appreciated it.
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      01-13-2011, 01:46 PM   #27
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Aluminum on Mild steel does not produce much of a galvanic reaction and should be fine...however galvanized (zinc coated) steel on aluminum does, so you would want to avoid that, especially in the midwest and east where salts are used on the highways.
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      01-13-2011, 02:41 PM   #28
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Hack, my ignorance shines through, thanks for the response and explanation. Do you know what the fastener materials are? I'll try finding it now with a search.

racey, you're right, I should have said coating instead of galvanizing, or anodized aluminum. I understand that Zn does have greater electronegativity than Fe (or do I have it backwards? college chem was a long time ago), but there is electro potential nonetheless and we're talking about a relatively long time in contact. I've seen aluminum and steel parts welded by this process that could not be broken with a sledge hammer.
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      01-13-2011, 02:42 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
I agree except I believe that RacingBrake likes to refer to their rotors as "sliding rotors" because they have more of a sliding affect rather than a floating affect. They have an oblong hole to slide back ans forth.



Thanks you sir.
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how much?
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      01-13-2011, 02:57 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aleckzandr View Post
Do you know what the fastener materials are?
Don't know. Here's a little bit more detail and where I found the fastener diagram:

RacingBrake fastener kit

I'm not a materials engineer (nor engineer of any kind), but the fasteners are SAE grade 10.9 steel and "dacrotized."

I might order a set of replacement rings just for sh*ts and giggles and take off the fasteners on my rotors just to see how well it held up to 4+ years and 30,000 miles of abuse.
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      01-13-2011, 03:00 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by SpmnE9zero View Post
how much?
I think HP Autowerks is selling them for $740 per set shipped.

(Damn that is cheaper than OEM MZ4 Coupe rotors at Tischer)
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      01-13-2011, 03:03 PM   #32
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Mr.5,

How well are these holding up so far? Reason, why I ask that most of RB Rotors are soft. Have issues with Cracking and Splitting in Half. We installed a set of 355mmx32mm Replacement Rotors on our 4 Piston Brembo GT kit and They failed to hold up during the Track Event. Put our driver and others in danger. This Product looks promising. Please, shed some light. As we would like to put a set on our Projext 335i.

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      01-13-2011, 04:02 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony@BimmerBrakes View Post
Mr.5,

How well are these holding up so far? Reason, why I ask that most of RB Rotors are soft. Have issues with Cracking and Splitting in Half. We installed a set of 355mmx32mm Replacement Rotors on our 4 Piston Brembo GT kit and They failed to hold up during the Track Event. Put our driver and others in danger. This Product looks promising. Please, shed some light. As we would like to put a set on our Projext 335i.
I don't think you read the first thread in its entirety because I talk about how superb they worked at Laguna Seca and how hard these are compaired to other rotors.
They are holding up just fine and held up just fine at my track event.
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      01-13-2011, 04:13 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony@BimmerBrakes View Post
Mr.5,

How well are these holding up so far? Reason, why I ask that most of RB Rotors are soft. Have issues with Cracking and Splitting in Half. We installed a set of 355mmx32mm Replacement Rotors on our 4 Piston Brembo GT kit and They failed to hold up during the Track Event. Put our driver and others in danger. This Product looks promising. Please, shed some light. As we would like to put a set on our Projext 335i.
I'd like to see photos of said broken rotor, because something smells fishy.

Also, I recommend you put a telephone number and ~physical~ mailing address on your website's contact page.

Thanks.
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      01-13-2011, 04:26 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony@BimmerBrakes View Post
Mr.5,

How well are these holding up so far? Reason, why I ask that most of RB Rotors are soft. Have issues with Cracking and Splitting in Half. We installed a set of 355mmx32mm Replacement Rotors on our 4 Piston Brembo GT kit and They failed to hold up during the Track Event. Put our driver and others in danger. This Product looks promising. Please, shed some light. As we would like to put a set on our Projext 335i.
This is a serious claim, please have data (including pictures) to back this up.

We've met with RB in the past and have nothing but praise for their knowledge and manufacturing methods - they've been in the business for quite some time.

The kit Mr. 5 is using is very well built and we're rather certain it will take many more years of abuse.

Time will tell.

BTW - if you are going to copy our signature format, please at least change it slightly to give a more personal look.
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      01-13-2011, 04:52 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aleckzandr View Post
I'd like to see photos of said broken rotor, because something smells fishy.

Also, I recommend you put a telephone number and ~physical~ mailing address on your website's contact page.

Thanks.
We are working on that ATM.

Nothing is Fishy. Just had more Cracking in them than the Brembo's and Stoptech Replacement Rotors for the BBK and I felt it was very unsafe. I will try to find pics if they are still on my Computer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
I don't think you read the first thread in its entirety because I talk about how superb they worked at Laguna Seca and how hard these are compaired to other rotors.
They are holding up just fine and held up just fine at my track event.
Mr.5,

That is Great to hear. Sorry, that I over read your OP. Seems like RB is Stepping up there Game.

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Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
This is a serious claim, please have data (including pictures) to back this up.

We've met with RB in the past and have nothing but praise for their knowledge and manufacturing methods - they've been in the business for quite some time.

The kit Mr. 5 is using is very well built and we're rather certain it will take many more years of abuse.

Time will tell.
Tom,

I am not here to start an argument or anything. That was just my pass experience and I am glad to hear this Product is Very Well Built and is available to the E9x members. It has been awhile since I own a RB product and used. I guess things has Changed for the BEST!

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      01-13-2011, 07:04 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
I agree except I believe that RacingBrake likes to refer to their rotors as "sliding rotors" because they have more of a sliding affect rather than a floating affect. They have an oblong hole to slide back ans forth.
I've been thinking about this and the diagram. Thermal expansion & contraction is probably just the ticket to break any bonds created by a galvanic reaction.

Mr. 5, I respectfully ask this question again:

Quote:
Originally Posted by aleckzandr View Post
Mr. 5, did you notice or measure (by chance) any significant change in brake pad use, either good or bad, for the Cool Carbons? I realize it would be very difficult to tell since it was only one day at Laguna Seca.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
This is a serious claim, please have data (including pictures) to back this up.
Indeed. Possibly understated even, because we're in a realm beyond having a disappointing conversation with a BMW SA over a warranty claim, but in a realm of having a disappointing conversation with an insurance agent while fighting an obnoxious itch under a shiny new white cast.

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Originally Posted by Anthony@BimmerBrakes View Post
We are working on that ATM.
Nothing is Fishy. Just had more Cracking in them than the Brembo's and Stoptech Replacement Rotors for the BBK and I felt it was very unsafe. I will try to find pics if they are still on my Computer.
I respectfully suggest you be very careful with your words. You mentioned issues, plural, as if it happened to more than one rotor or even sets of rotors. You also mentioned they split in half, which is quite different than seeing suspicious cracks and fearing that they may split in half. Were these prototypes or off the shelf? Did you notify RB? What was their response? Did you give them a batch number?

Looking forward to the pics. Thanks.
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      01-13-2011, 07:46 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony@BimmerBrakes View Post
We are working on that ATM.

Nothing is Fishy. Just had more Cracking in them than the Brembo's and Stoptech Replacement Rotors for the BBK and I felt it was very unsafe. I will try to find pics if they are still on my Computer.
Cracking on heavily tracked rotors are NORMAL. See my rotors below.

It is merely a result from rapid thermal expansion and contraction, which will be typical of rotors that see extremes of temperature. There are some misconceptions regarding actual rotor "cracking."

Microscopic cracks that you see on the rotor below are actually normal. Unless the cracks are big enough to catch fingernail or actually split the thickness of the rotor, they are nothing to be concerned about. Typically, rotors that have a higher carbon content, or rotors that go through rapid thermal cycles will have more surface cracks like this. People often times freak out when they see such signs of cracking, but most brake experts will tell you that it is merely a sign that the rotors are doing their job and doing it exceedingly well. I've seen club racers and professional racers that race on rotors that are far more "stressed" than mine with absolutely no problem.

So before everyone freaks out about said cracks, keep in mind that RB rotors have a higher carbon content in the cast grey iron (higher carbon content results in "harder" material) and the cooling vane design means on a car that is heavily tracked, it'll go through a wider range of thermal cycle, meaning it'll cool down the rotor faster than your typical rotors with traditional cooling vane design.

In reality, the Brembo and StopTECH rotor material doesn't crack as much is mainly because they're made of a SOFTER and more pliable material, and the thermal variation isn't as big as the RB ring material.
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      01-13-2011, 09:23 PM   #39
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Mr. 5, I respectfully ask this question again:

Quote:
Originally Posted by aleckzandr View Post
Mr. 5, did you notice or measure (by chance) any significant change in brake pad use, either good or bad, for the Cool Carbons? I realize it would be very difficult to tell since it was only one day at Laguna Seca.
You know...At first I was thinking that the pads did wear worse than before but I have a feeling that it's the calipers.
It looked like I used 50% of the pads at Laguna seca but then I saw the inner pad and there's about 65% left on the inner.
I wish someone made a bushing upgrade for the 335i caliper.
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      01-14-2011, 01:10 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
Cracking on heavily tracked rotors are NORMAL. See my rotors below.

It is merely a result from rapid thermal expansion and contraction, which will be typical of rotors that see extremes of temperature. There are some misconceptions regarding actual rotor "cracking."

Microscopic cracks that you see on the rotor below are actually normal. Unless the cracks are big enough to catch fingernail or actually split the thickness of the rotor, they are nothing to be concerned about. Typically, rotors that have a higher carbon content, or rotors that go through rapid thermal cycles will have more surface cracks like this. People often times freak out when they see such signs of cracking, but most brake experts will tell you that it is merely a sign that the rotors are doing their job and doing it exceedingly well. I've seen club racers and professional racers that race on rotors that are far more "stressed" than mine with absolutely no problem.

So before everyone freaks out about said cracks, keep in mind that RB rotors have a higher carbon content in the cast grey iron (higher carbon content results in "harder" material) and the cooling vane design means on a car that is heavily tracked, it'll go through a wider range of thermal cycle, meaning it'll cool down the rotor faster than your typical rotors with traditional cooling vane design.

In reality, the Brembo and StopTECH rotor material doesn't crack as much is mainly because they're made of a SOFTER and more pliable material, and the thermal variation isn't as big as the RB ring material.

This. Coming from the racing scene it is normal to see rotors of this nature. Even the 15" Alcon Brakes on the GT3 RSR will start to do this after repeated use at the track. Hauling down a car from 180mph over and over is no small feat.
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      01-14-2011, 02:04 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe View Post
This. Coming from the racing scene it is normal to see rotors of this nature. Even the 15" Alcon Brakes on the GT3 RSR will start to do this after repeated use at the track. Hauling down a car from 180mph over and over is no small feat.
One thing I will add. Cracking that catches your fingnernails or cracking that connects all the way from the edge of the rotor, or cracking that are deeper than surface cracks ARE a problem. Those will eventually develop into deeper cracks. When that happens, monitor the conditions of the rotor ring carefully and replace as soon as you can.

The cracks on my front rotor shown in the picture are visible but do not catch my fingernail and are mostly microscopic surface cracks, which is normal given the amount of time spent on very hot and brake intensive tracks here in So. Cal.
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      01-14-2011, 06:27 PM   #42
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That kind of cracking is called "crazing", and its not an indication of a problem with the rotors.

Here's a good illustration of good vs. bad
http://www.winnard.co.uk/service_guide.htm
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      01-18-2011, 04:32 PM   #43
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how much?
There is also an incentive to buy early. Please see the following thread for details:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=462870
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      01-18-2011, 05:24 PM   #44
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any word on when the rears will be available? what about racingbrake pads?
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