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      01-11-2011, 03:09 PM   #23
magic77
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Thats the problem when I have passengers in the car you just cant have the front seat that much forward , its a right PITA.

I'm about to replace the Jane as while it should last her to 2 years accordin to the manual she only has to grow another inch and will be too tall for it.

Problem i found all these age gaps and groups for seats are gettting seriously out of range. My 2 year old is growing out of a seat thats suppose to be for up to4, and my friends "little" girl whos just 3.5 is wearing childrens not todlers shoes anmd clothes and they again had to put her in a larger seat the her age group because she did not fit nad was in pain.

Ideally I would like rear facer but it makes it impossible to live with unless I got a car with masses of legroom and 3 is largest car we can fit on our driveay. So hence hte Jane, the way my little one is shooting up she will be on just a booster pad by the time shes 5.
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      01-11-2011, 03:29 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
The Exo is only a group 1 seat though, 9-18kg, our 2 year old is 17kg now, so no good!



Yep the grp 2/3 isofix seats have to be used with the cars own seatbelts which means the structural metal in the seat is reduced greatly from a grp 1 seat which is solely isofix secured, so they weigh a lot less.

At the moment I have to have a muslin cloth draped over the back of my seat to keep the grubby shoes off the leather, i'm looking forward to sorting that!!



Those recaro's look nice! without isofix don't they fly all over the place when not in use?

I know isofix hold them in place and gives better reclining options (aswell as the better side impact restraint). The Jane seat i'm trying is the only seat with 3 recline angles settable with the child in the seat. Gotta get her to sleep sometimes
Yeah but the Grp 2 is isofix as well, but is smaller i suppose!

We use this for the back of the 5th seats, luckily the bottom tucks into the magaine net so fits really well http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sunshine-Kid.../dp/B0009XBWLY

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335diesel View Post
Quick reminder - a CORRECTLY fitted non ISOFIX seat is as safe as an ISOFIX one. ISOFIX seats are just easier to fit correctly. That is all.
Err not Which? Findings. They found isofix safer in a side impact as it's attached to the car, while the 'seatbelt only' moved around more thus provided less protection...
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      01-11-2011, 03:35 PM   #25
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that is useful might have to get a set for next holiday thanks
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      01-12-2011, 05:35 AM   #26
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I have read all the info about rear facing seats until you are 4 and all of the research simply says they are safer in a frontal collision. What happens if you are rear ended? Presumably they are then no safer than a forward facing seat in a frontal collision?

It also amazes me that everyone follows the advice to put your car seat (if you only have one) behind the passenger seat rather than the driver's. As far as I have been able to tell this advice is solely based on the fact that it is safer when putting them in and out when parked at the side of the road. Think we prob do this once a year... If you look at accident stats the safest place in a car is in the driver's seat, next best is right behind it.

I appreciate that with your kids its each to their own and you need to decide what's best for your kids - but it is worth thinking about how you drive and what the advice is based on rather than just following blindly...

Loads of people disagree with me on the driver's seat issue but when I researched it in depth the evidence was quite clear...
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      01-12-2011, 05:42 AM   #27
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hmm interesting point why would it be safer behind the drivers seat, just curious as never heard of this, Woudl have thought behind the drive be worse as its closer to the oncoming traffic

In my case coud not happen as in the 3 and in B i have the seat so back she would have to sit cross legged to fit.
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      01-12-2011, 05:57 AM   #28
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What I found were survival rates in cars by seating position. I think it boils down to the fact that most drivers when avoiding accidents/involved in accidents naturally take actions that are likely to safest for them (steer away from impact etc). You also regularly hear that the driver survives even if there are other fatalities. Makes sense that closer to driver = safer..

It's all relative though and every accident is different. I just hate official advice that is based on tackling common sense issues (don't try and unload your child in to fast moving traffic - put child seat on the other side) rather than scientific analysis or advice that conveniently ignores half the argument (rear facing seats in a rear end collision).

The safest course of action remains with the driver to be alert, properly judge and assess risks and remember the small people in the back and simply avoid accidents (appreciate the fact I have included accident in that sentence and by their very nature not all can be avoided...) Still a strong believer that the driver and their training is what really prevents a lot of the accidents that happen on our roads though - even if that is predicting/allowing for the lack of talent from others... (i ride bikes so have a lot of practice of this!)
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      01-12-2011, 06:12 AM   #29
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I think Passenger side is often used as when you get Sprogs in/out say in town, its on the pavement side, not traffic side.

As been mentioned accidents can come from any direction.
As we have two Sprogs, not going to entertain which side is safer for another second!
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      01-12-2011, 06:20 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Plum View Post
What I found were survival rates in cars by seating position. I think it boils down to the fact that most drivers when avoiding accidents/involved in accidents naturally take actions that are likely to safest for them (steer away from impact etc). You also regularly hear that the driver survives even if there are other fatalities. Makes sense that closer to driver = safer..
See since a large proportion of crashes are head on I cant see how that would work being on the side of the impact you would come out worse, in event if you steer to left to avoid incoming car you woudl put the driver side direct into impact zone and hence your child.

From what I read / been told safest is in middle however. Very few cars car take a car seat in middle (3 series cant) and most dont have isofix there.

All the near missed and accidents I have had have been

> Either incoming cars on my side or coming over to my side so head on.
> Rear Ended twice
> Skidded on frozen road into kerb

All of these would put it as safest on passenger side but then thats to my experience and all we heard. I suppose with seats and cars being safer its how you fit them and how you drive.

Not much you can do, and if you are or your child is to get hurt in a crash I recon with todays safety it want matter which side of the car she is on.

Problem is its never us its the other muppets you got to watch out for.
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      01-12-2011, 07:13 AM   #31
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I've already spelled it out to my 2 year old son.. he's older, bigger and uglier than his little sister so she gets the good seat...
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      01-12-2011, 08:23 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335diesel View Post
You really ought to read this guys:

http://www.rearfacing.co.uk
Really not sure that a bit of subjective research by one Swedish couple constitutes a basis to form an argument from.
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      01-12-2011, 09:26 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themetz View Post
Really not sure that a bit of subjective research by one Swedish couple constitutes a basis to form an argument from.
What about all the supporting research, the BMA medical report, etc, etc?

You turn the rear facing seats around when they are 4ish anyway - the point being is that kids necks can't take a collision until they are a bit older.

Anyway I spent hours researching, spoke to a number of overseas mates (who all use rear facers without question) , spoke to the research centres in the UK (who are passionate about rear facers) , contacted the BMA to get the full report, etc, etc. I also have a number of friends (in the UK) who have independently made the same decision.

In the end it's about making up your own mind based on the facts you find out. As I said, a rear facer won't fit in the Landy so we've gone for the best front facer we could find.

The rear facer in the E91 just looks SO solid and well tied down.

To me, a slight robbing of front passenger (or driver) space is worth it - as long as you can physically fit in the car yourself!

Worth avoiding crashing too. Definitely helps safety.
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      01-12-2011, 09:26 AM   #34
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We put ours behind the driver seat, seems obvious to me - I though everyone did it?

1. Saves walking round the car to get out all the time
2. I have to get out into the traffic and I'm not dead?
3. On family trips its much easier for the front passenger to to turn and attend to / communicate with a child behind the drivers seat than behind their own seat
4. Actually we rarely park at the road side, not at home, work, shopping, nursery, family, friends etc.

Anyhow, the new Jane Monte Carlo has turned up - bloody awesome and so light too! Reclines a dream.

Looks comfy as hell - i'd have loved one when I was little.

If the Jane's no good I think we'll try one of those Concorde Transformers (just cos they sound so cool)

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      01-12-2011, 09:38 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335diesel View Post
Worth avoiding crashing too. Definitely helps safety.
The number one safety tip that.

Wonder if that's approved in Sweden?

We all go on about this subject, but how many of the population would even put their children in a child seat if it wasn't law??

How many would ignore any kind of seat after the infant carrier stage? A lot i'd say, millions. Every day I'll see a car packed full of people, kids on elders knees or babies in a passengers arms, even in the front seats, and this is even with it being illegal.

Any 80's or earlier child will remember not even wearing seatbelts when they were growing up, moses backets / pram cots just poppoed on the back seats etc, thankfully we're all still here, but it is legislation that drives the the change of mentality not the other way round.
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      01-12-2011, 09:40 AM   #36
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Yep - I remember being in the back of cars with no rear seatbelts...!
And sitting in the back of dad's pickups.

Survived it - and had a lot of fun too.
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      01-12-2011, 09:57 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by 335diesel View Post
To me, a slight robbing of front passenger (or driver) space is worth it - as long as you can physically fit in the car yourself!

Worth avoiding crashing too. Definitely helps safety.
Totally agree in my case though it be bigger cars before we can even think of that

annoying but got to do best of a bad situtation
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      01-12-2011, 10:12 AM   #38
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3ers have pretty poor rear legroom anyway, so they are already at a disadvantage for rear-facers.

I think squeezing in a rear facer so mine or the wifes knees touch or are too close to the dash (very dangerous indeed) is not an acceptable risk for us when forward facing seats are perfectly safe enough for little un.

Shoot me down for being a wicked father, but we have to all be safe, not just the kids.

If we had a bigger car, things might be different.

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      01-12-2011, 10:41 AM   #39
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DB - I'm 5'8", wife is 5'7" - we can both stretch our legs out (seat is 3rd notch from fully back) - it's the verticalness of the seat that makes snoozing a bit tricky. TBH it's not an issue at all but then we aren't all that tall. I cannot see any compromise in adult safety whatsoever.

If our knees were anywhere near the dash, I'd get something else. We tried putting it in the Jimny (!!) and couldn't actually fit in the front seat - not ideal.
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      01-12-2011, 11:26 AM   #40
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335, fair do's

I'm 6' and the wife is 5"11 (and long legs too ) so we really couldn't fit the rear facer.

I have electric seats, so I'm afraid I don't know what "3rd notch from the back" means?
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      01-17-2011, 06:29 AM   #41
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Got the new booster seat to try out. (Jane Montecarlo plus)

One thing I'd like to ask those of you with high back booster seats. (grp 2/3)

On this seat (as any I assume), the back is hinged at the connection with the seat base, so it can recline and also fit various angled cars seats. This means the back portion tilts forward when you brake.

So little un, who hasn't mastered holding her self back under braking yet, tilts forward with the seat back. Until her feet touch the floor (years?) I can't see how she can restrain her upper body properly?

Obviuously this is only under gentle braking, any harder and the intertia reel locks preventing the seat moving.

Is this normal??
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      01-17-2011, 07:53 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
Got the new booster seat to try out. (Jane Montecarlo plus)

One thing I'd like to ask those of you with high back booster seats. (grp 2/3)

On this seat (as any I assume), the back is hinged at the connection with the seat base, so it can recline and also fit various angled cars seats. This means the back portion tilts forward when you brake.
So you are saying the seat is moving when you are braking??? Mine has a tilt yes, but locks in place once you release the catch....


Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post

So little un, who hasn't mastered holding her self back under braking yet, tilts forward with the seat back. Until her feet touch the floor (years?) I can't see how she can restrain her upper body properly?

Obviuously this is only under gentle braking, any harder and the intertia reel locks preventing the seat moving.

Is this normal??
Bit confused on this one mate..Maybe it is combination of 'getting used to it thing' and can you not recline a bit more, or is due to your previous question?
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      01-17-2011, 07:58 AM   #43
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No mate, the seat back is on a loose hinge pivot, it just flops forward or backwards.

The base (which is isofix) is rigidly fixed to the car seat and the booster backrest just falls back with gravity into the car seat backrest.

The recline system works by moving the child seat base forwards on catches (extending the isofix anchor arms), allowing the back to fall back further - if you get my drift.

Normally the booster seat back is held against the car seat back with the weight of the child, but when you brake it all leans forward (pivoting at the back of the base) if your braking is not heavy enough to lock the intertia reel.


This is an isofix seat, so the base will never move, but if you have a seatbelt-only booster seat then surely the whole thing moves when you brake as the belts are not 'clamped' by the seat?? (just like an adult will move / lean in a seatbelt if you don't brace with your feet / arms. Obviously when your child seat is empty, you still need to belt it up to stop it flying round the car!! That's one reason I got an isofix one.

Our Group 1 seat had 'clamps' on the seatbelt to hold it in position, but with these grp 2/3 boosters the seatbelt just goes over the seat & child just like an adult. I suppose thats the whole point, the child and seat are both held by the seatbelt, whereas in smaller seats, the seat is secured to the car and then the child is secured in the seat separately.

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      01-17-2011, 08:36 AM   #44
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hmm, not sure I like the sound of that mate.

The Britax seat back is locked/fixed - just checked. Maybe has a 1/2 inch play but that's as the whole seat pivots on the isofix mount (when as you say the inertia real would lock on the seat belt)

So when the lil' chap is sitting in it, the seat back is rigid.
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