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      01-17-2011, 12:32 PM   #1
kaishang
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Diesel Placebo Effect

What type of diesel fuel do you use in your car?

I usually use BP Ultimate, but it is sometimes a PITA finding a refuelling station.... there are a lot BP fill-ups on motorways but I've banned them all due to the motorway price premium over in-town refuelling.

Car seems to run better on BP Ultimate. But this could just be placebo effect.

I've also tried Shell Fuel Save. Car doesn't seem to run as well.

Esso is another one I often use... seems to run well, better than Shell Fuel Save.

I haven't tried Shell V-Power because I've read that although the cetane rating is at premium diesel level, it is a gas-to-liquid manufactured fuel and the energy content is actually lower than regular diesel. True...?
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      01-17-2011, 12:49 PM   #2
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After twigging that the smooth running of my car was down to using BP ultimate I always go out my way to fill up with it.

Car most definitely runs smoother especially on light part throttle.

Feels flat on normal stuff.

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      01-17-2011, 01:35 PM   #3
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I only use either BP Ultimate or Shell V-Power diesel depending on what's available. My 330D feels smoother and more powerful on Ultimate, and gets a few MPG more compared to Shell V-Power but it's not a HUGE difference.

Remember that the diesel composition can vary from month to month as the formulations are changed to accommodate weather conditions; winter diesel gives lower MPG than summer diesel due to the additives used to drop the waxing point. This is on top of the extra electrical load / defrosting etc. during the colder months. It's all variable, and thus hard to get good data.

I believe that even though a diesel will burn pretty much anything, premium fuels are worth the extra cost IF they burn cleaner, reduce DPF clogging, keep injectors & high pressure fuel pumps in good condition, etc. Whether they ACTUALLY do any of this or not, I have no direct personal evidence for, but the difference in power, smoothness and economy DOES seem to be there. Any mechanics care to comment?
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      01-17-2011, 01:41 PM   #4
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Until there's proper proof, I'm not interested.

"Posh" fuels get used a lot less so often degrade more. With super unleaded, you're often getting a lower octane rating than normal petrol. I imagine it's similar with diesel.

I've used "super" fuels and felt no difference except a lighter wallet.

The fuel companies seem to dodge providing actual facts - it's all "grey" waffle and hot air.

For that reason I'm out.
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      01-17-2011, 01:51 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335diesel View Post
"Posh" fuels get used a lot less so often degrade more. With super unleaded, you're often getting a lower octane rating than normal petrol. I imagine it's similar with diesel.
I've bought a bad batch of Super and diesel and found this too.

Nowadays I only buy Shell Fuelsave diesel as it is typically 55-58 cetane (according to shell) and fresh. My 535d runs as well on Fuelsave as it does on BP Ultimate, but perhaps the BP Ultimate round where I live is old and stale as it's by far the most expensive and least available fuel. I find Fuelsave to be as good as Supermarket fuel plus Millers too and as Shell can be found for the same price near a supermarket I don't bother with Millers any more.
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      01-17-2011, 01:53 PM   #6
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I have had issue with my car the past week or so with Shell fuel save diesel (just about to PM a member on here about it actually) car was lumpy at idle and was not as smooth as usuall. I filled up at my local Esso and after about 20 - 30 miles, the car started behaving itself again and runs better. If it was not running as lumpy at idle I would have said it was my imagination.
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      01-17-2011, 02:33 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milesr3 View Post
I've bought a bad batch of Super and diesel and found this too.

Nowadays I only buy Shell Fuelsave diesel as it is typically 55-58 cetane (according to shell) and fresh. My 535d runs as well on Fuelsave as it does on BP Ultimate, but perhaps the BP Ultimate round where I live is old and stale as it's by far the most expensive and least available fuel. I find Fuelsave to be as good as Supermarket fuel plus Millers too and as Shell can be found for the same price near a supermarket I don't bother with Millers any more.
deja thread again eh guys

Remember my thread when I went down from BP Ultimate D to normal shell.. http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=394206

FuelSave seems as good tbh...perhaps I should repeat the test with BP Ult to FuelSave...


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Originally Posted by 335diesel View Post
Until there's proper proof, I'm not interested.

"Posh" fuels get used a lot less so often degrade more. With super unleaded, you're often getting a lower octane rating than normal petrol. I imagine it's similar with diesel.

I've used "super" fuels and felt no difference except a lighter wallet.

The fuel companies seem to dodge providing actual facts - it's all "grey" waffle and hot air.

For that reason I'm out.
I agree fella, would really like to see proper proof.....which BP do provide to a point. Is it worth the premium...hmmm at the moment I am with you and FuelSave.
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      01-17-2011, 03:07 PM   #8
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If you like the BP, then stick with it.
I am of the "Supermarket and Millers" camp, so I suggest a bottle of Millers in the boot for when you can't get BP easily.

Millers does the trick in my 5er. No performance increase or better smoothness, but it provides peace of mind to get the extra lubrication to the fuel pumps - and I get a little more economical car from it too - around 1 mpg. Not much, but I don't use it for an economy tool.

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      01-17-2011, 06:50 PM   #9
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I have used Morrissons for a few years.
Because I collect the 5 vouchers.

Cars have been to the moon and run flawlessly.
Dont kid yourselves - its not a tuned 3ltr petrol turbo

Jast dod a westcountry to London run on it today.
200miles at 55mph.
75mpg.

LOL!
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      01-18-2011, 01:03 AM   #10
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Shell fuelsave made my 335d run like crap. Lumpy, rough and poor performance. I use standard bp/shell/esso with Millers. Engine feels smooth with no issues. I also add in forte every 10k to give it a flush
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      01-18-2011, 04:51 AM   #11
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A while ago i did a little test, to see if it was a placebo effect
I have a Shell Fuel card, so, TBH, i only use Shell V-Power diesel ..... but i wanted to know if my smoothness, responsiveness and performance was down to the V-Power or in my noodle !

I ran the car very very low on fuel, the last 6 or 7 miles the range was reading ZERO
I got muy friend to take my car and card to the fuel station - asked his to gas it up for me
Not telling me which of the fuels he'd put in, and repeated a further two times
The first two tanks felt flat and wooly where as the thrid tank, some 700 miles later instantly (almost) felt very different - back to how it was prior to the start of the experiment

It wasn't on the Fuel saver shit, this was before it was introduced - i've not tired that stuff, and tbh, i have to need to ..... i'll stick to V-Power diesel
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      01-18-2011, 04:52 AM   #12
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Cam someone provide a link for which Millers to buy for a 330d, Not sure what I need but want to grab some to throw in the boot.

Thanks.
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      01-18-2011, 05:41 AM   #13
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Quote:
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Cam someone provide a link for which Millers to buy for a 330d, Not sure what I need but want to grab some to throw in the boot.

Thanks.
What is this millers magical stuff?? is it like reddex?

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      01-18-2011, 05:57 AM   #14
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Millers has long been in the additive business for enhancing diesel fuel. Cleaning agents, cetane enhancing and added lubricity. Certainly a savior when we went ULSD, from the dirty old high sulphur diesels. Lubricity was compromised and the additives sorted the issues for many users.

Totally accepted in the diesel industry. Manufacturers of injection equipment like Delphi, StanaDyne and Lucas make there own 'similar' products.

With typical premium diesels, you get the additive package, so no need to 'dose' the fuel.

I run BP Ultimate mainly for the cleaning properties, with the benefit of smoother running and more mpg. Typically you get better combustion, shows up best at steady speed/load driving, when a diesel engine is in the high efficiency range.

I've had lots of experience with many diesels over the years, fuel can make such a big difference for smoke levels and performance/mpg. VW engines, in my particular experience, can be so different across the range of fuel quality.

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      01-18-2011, 06:08 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
Millers has long been in the additive business for enhancing diesel fuel. Cleaning agents, cetane enhancing and added lubricity. Certainly a savior when we went ULSD, from the dirty old high sulphur diesels. Lubricity was compromised and the additives sorted the issues for many users.

Totally accepted in the diesel industry. Manufacturers of injection equipment like Delphi, StanaDyne and Lucas make there own 'similar' products.

With typical premium diesels, you get the additive package, so no need to 'dose' the fuel.

I run BP Ultimate mainly for the cleaning properties, with the benefit of smoother running and more mpg. Typically you get better combustion, shows up best at steady speed/load driving, when a diesel engine is in the high efficiency range.

I've had lots of experience with many diesels over the years, fuel can make such a big difference for smoke levels and performance/mpg. VW engines, in my particular experience, can be so different across the range of fuel quality.

HighlandPete
In order to have the benefit of the cleaning properties etc would you need to use it all the time or would you benefit from it straight away?

Also can you recommend a certain millers product I should use with my 320d?

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      01-18-2011, 06:27 AM   #16
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See, I've heard differing arguments about additives. Some say snake oil, others say real difference.

Who do you believe? It's hard to know unless you try it yourself, which I never have.

EDIT:

I've also not used any of the V-Power stuff in mine, just whatever the "regular" Shell stuff is at the time (which means Fuelsave right now). Maybe I will run this tank empty and then fill up with V-Power, just to try it and see if I can notice a difference. I have noticed that my car "rocks" a bit when idling from cold but I put this down to a cold engine/fluids more than anything else...
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      01-18-2011, 06:56 AM   #17
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See, I've heard differing arguments about additives. Some say snake oil, others say real difference.

Who do you believe? It's hard to know unless you try it yourself, which I never have..
You don't fool the serious diesel users, industrial, HGV users. Motorists seem to doubt everything. If you resesrch the subject, get into the serious test data, such as the supporting test data for ones like StanaDyne, you see what it is all about. Engines are stripped and tested, measured, photos, etc., to show how additives benefit injectors, pumps, valves, etc.

There is also test data for supporting more power output from some premium fuels.

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      01-18-2011, 08:13 AM   #18
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Quote:
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I have had issue with my car the past week or so with Shell fuel save diesel (just about to PM a member on here about it actually) car was lumpy at idle and was not as smooth as usuall. I filled up at my local Esso and after about 20 - 30 miles, the car started behaving itself again and runs better. If it was not running as lumpy at idle I would have said it was my imagination.
I had a very similar issue which I beleive was due to V-Power / Fuel Save, as I'd only filled up with these since getting the car back in August.
This is because since I filled up with supermarket + Millers the issue has gone away......

I'm sure there's a 535d owner who's posted on here (or BMWLand maybe) about a light throttle misfire caused by V-Power. Again, cured by changing to another brand.

Haven't got a clue why this might be though....
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      01-18-2011, 08:21 AM   #19
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You don't fool the serious diesel users, industrial, HGV users. Motorists seem to doubt everything. If you resesrch the subject, get into the serious test data, such as the supporting test data for ones like StanaDyne, you see what it is all about. Engines are stripped and tested, measured, photos, etc., to show how additives benefit injectors, pumps, valves, etc.

There is also test data for supporting more power output from some premium fuels.

HighlandPete
Fair enough, I'd have to bow to your greater experience/knowledge on this one.

So you run BP Ultimate exclusively? I might try it out, might involve going on a hoon to empty my current tank of Fuelsave
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      01-18-2011, 08:39 AM   #20
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Fair enough, I'd have to bow to your greater experience/knowledge on this one.

So you run BP Ultimate exclusively? I might try it out, might involve going on a hoon to empty my current tank of Fuelsave
I think you really will notice a difference. And quite quickly too. Well worth a try.

In the previous thread discussing this it seemed 335/330D drivers noticed it more.

It really does feel like someone has advanced your timing (on a petrol engine ). Just seems that little bit more eager/alert on initial pickup and smoother, cleaner part throttle acceleration. My fuel economy also went up slightly.

Not sure if it makes flat out performance any better. But for normal driving I certainly notice a clear difference.

D.
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      01-18-2011, 09:22 AM   #21
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So you run BP Ultimate exclusively? I might try it out, might involve going on a hoon to empty my current tank of Fuelsave
I personally do, (as it's the only premium fuel available locally). I'm of the opinion that continued use, is where you score, not some random tank full. So the 330d has had Ultimate for most fills. I had a time last year when Ultimate ran out locally and it was on the standard BP diesel, I felt the car was lacking, just didn't have the mid range urge of my normal driving. Noisier cold starts, mpg started dropping off as well. Back to Ultimate, smoother more urgent drive returned immediately.

My son uses Ultimate in his Fiesta vans. He notices the difference, as you need every bhp you can get, plus they get more mpg. The X3 2.0d runs sweeter and more powerful on BP Ultimate, compared to the regular BP Diesel.

I don't think many realise the smoke levels some of the fuels produce. Bosch smoke level tests show that fuels with a better additive package have less particulates than the typical lowest BS grade. Hence why I won't use supermarket fuel. If I had no choice, I'd dose each tankful with something like Millers.

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      01-18-2011, 09:28 AM   #22
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This proves my point - everyone's "better" experiences are based on "what it feels like" - nothing to back it up. You may be looking for more performance because you've just spent a load extra on filling up?

Unless you drive the same route at EXACTLY the same speed in identical conditions, no two drives will be the same.

It's all about "feel" and to me that's just falling for the marketing hype. Show me a cleaner engine, a faster car or much better mpg using super fuels and I'm in. Until then I think it's a complete waste of money.
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