E90Post
 


E92-lighting
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Mechanical Maintenance: Break-in / Oil & Fluids / Servicing / Warranty > Mike Miller Maintenance Schedule (not a re-post)



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-06-2011, 04:30 PM   #1
joegeeZe
Private First Class
3
Rep
170
Posts

 
Drives: 2007 328i
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Freehold

iTrader: (1)

Mike Miller Maintenance Schedule (not a re-post)

I'm trying to get the newest version of the Mike Miller Maintenance Schedule. Every time I email him at techtalk@roundel.org, the email is returned back to me saying that it was rejected by spam filtering.

I tried changing the subject line so that maybe it would'nt be picked up by the filter but it still does. Is this the correct email? Can anyone post the newest version here?
Appreciate 0
      02-07-2011, 03:15 AM   #2
Dominican1NYC
Private First Class
Dominican1NYC's Avatar
Dominican Republic
1
Rep
153
Posts

 
Drives: 08 E90 335i
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Fort Hood, TX

iTrader: (8)

Garage List
2008 BMW 335i  [2.80]
I won't post it on here due to Mike not liking it posted on forums, etc. but I can e-mail it to you if you provide me with an e-mail. That's his correct e-mail as well so I don't know what the issue is.
Appreciate 0
      02-07-2011, 07:02 AM   #3
ENINTY
Banned
51
Rep
3,415
Posts

 
Drives: 2006 325i Sport
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

It's published in any BMW maintenance manual pre-1996 model year, not like it is a big seceret. Basically:

Break in oils engine, trans, diff @ 1,200 miles.
Change Trans, and Diff oils every 30,000 miles.
Engine oil, I'm sure Mike recommends every 7,500 miles.
Brake fluid flush every year.
Coolant every 2 years.

Mike also thinks BMW cooling system components (post E30's) suck and recommends replacement of radiator, hoses, T-stat, and water pump every 60,000 miles.
Appreciate 0
      02-07-2011, 08:49 AM   #4
jsublime
Lieutenant
United_States
4
Rep
479
Posts

 
Drives: 135i DCT
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Orlando

iTrader: (0)

seriously? google mike miller old school maintenance schedule and a pdf is the first result.

to the above list add plugs @ 60k.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-07-2011, 09:58 AM   #5
Chriztofor
Colonel
Chriztofor's Avatar
United_States
42
Rep
2,720
Posts

 
Drives: '06 325i Auto
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Chicago Burbs

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ENINTY View Post
Mike also thinks BMW cooling system components (post E30's) suck and recommends replacement of radiator, hoses, T-stat, and water pump every 60,000 miles.
Radiator at 60k?! That is overkill. I changed my radiator in my e46 when it hit 150,000 miles.
__________________
If no codes are being thrown use Chevron Techron fuel injector cleaner (concentrate). It solves rpm fluctuating upon cold start-up. Also, for most BMW problems start off by scanning your car with the Peake Research Tool. It contains the actual BMW codes. If you want to register a newly installed battery for free (just buy a $10 cable) and google/download BMWLogger
Appreciate 0
      02-07-2011, 12:15 PM   #6
ENINTY
Banned
51
Rep
3,415
Posts

 
Drives: 2006 325i Sport
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriztofor View Post
Radiator at 60k?! That is overkill. I changed my radiator in my e46 when it hit 150,000 miles.
Yep, I agree. Go read a few old Bimmer magazines and you'll get sick of Mike's dissertation on how bad BMW cooling systems are. I plan on changing mine when it starts leaking...
Appreciate 0
      02-07-2011, 04:08 PM   #7
ceb
NHTSA Nazi
21
Rep
1,979
Posts

 
Drives: 335ix
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: MD

iTrader: (1)

Sigh;

One thing you'll note is that the schedule is almost identical to the pre mid-90's schedules.

Lots of things have changed since then. Oils and fluids have gotten better, cars require less maintenance because of electronic nannies and so forth.

The problem with maintenance schedules like these is that they mean nothing. If you change your oil with every fill-up your car will last longer; or will it?

If I put new seat covers on my car every 3 months then my interior will always look new. How about every 4 months? Every 6? Once a year?

What is the break even point between saving money and saving your engine (or whatever part of your car?)

IMO, the engineers at BMW have done that research for me. In countries where it is common to keep cars for 300-500k km, the extended maintenance periods are mandated and followed.

Here in the US, we've been indoctrinated by "Jiffy Lube" that frequent fluid changes are good.

What we need is frequent checks. No need to change hoses until they show signs of deterioration. No hose has failed spontaneously without showing signs of failure. The problem is that we don't look at our hoses.

Years ago when cars had "minor tune-ups" every 3k miles and "major tune-ups" every 12k miles there was no mandated mileage or time to change belts or hoses. Every 3k miles somebody would look at them and tell you when something looked bad.

Knock on wood, I've driven a documented 1 million miles without a breakdown following manufacturer's recommended schedules.
Appreciate 0
      02-07-2011, 09:31 PM   #8
ENINTY
Banned
51
Rep
3,415
Posts

 
Drives: 2006 325i Sport
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ceb View Post
Sigh;

One thing you'll note is that the schedule is almost identical to the pre mid-90's schedules.

Lots of things have changed since then. Oils and fluids have gotten better, cars require less maintenance because of electronic nannies and so forth.

The problem with maintenance schedules like these is that they mean nothing. If you change your oil with every fill-up your car will last longer; or will it?

If I put new seat covers on my car every 3 months then my interior will always look new. How about every 4 months? Every 6? Once a year?

What is the break even point between saving money and saving your engine (or whatever part of your car?)

IMO, the engineers at BMW have done that research for me. In countries where it is common to keep cars for 300-500k km, the extended maintenance periods are mandated and followed.

Here in the US, we've been indoctrinated by "Jiffy Lube" that frequent fluid changes are good.

What we need is frequent checks. No need to change hoses until they show signs of deterioration. No hose has failed spontaneously without showing signs of failure. The problem is that we don't look at our hoses.

Years ago when cars had "minor tune-ups" every 3k miles and "major tune-ups" every 12k miles there was no mandated mileage or time to change belts or hoses. Every 3k miles somebody would look at them and tell you when something looked bad.

Knock on wood, I've driven a documented 1 million miles without a breakdown following manufacturer's recommended schedules.
Ceb, since you and I are on the same page here is my two cents.

After owning a 1989 E30 since it was brand new, and keeping it for 256,000 (before I sold it to my neighbor who drove it another 40,000 miles) I have a few observations. First, it takes a long time to amass 250K+ on a car. The E30 I had between my wife and me it took over 18 years to get to 256,000 miles. And we drove it alot.

Second, in that time span I replaced the steering rack, heater core, seat covers, intake boot, sunroof crank handle, thermostat housing, at least 8 antenna masts, along with the regular scheduled maintenance of 30K drive train fluids, 12K oil changes - per the E30 CBS, 30K valve adjustments, bi-annual coolant changes, yearly brake fluid changes, and a timing belt every 60,000 miles, and brakes, fuel filters, belts and hoses etc, oh and a conversion to R-134 refrigerant with a new AC condenser to boot, rear subframe bushings, diff bushing, front wheel bearings, rear half shafts and bearings. I've never really added it up, but I'd bet it was well over $15,000 in maintenance (with me doing 90% of the work). What I discovered was after 18 years, in 2006 the new BMWs were REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, MODERN AND WAY BETTER THAN THE E30.

My point being that at some point technology moves on, and cars just get better with each model year and have more features for the same price. There is really no point to over doing the maintenance above what the manufacturer recommends, because at some point the car is no longer economical to repair, and you'll want a new car anyway. So changing the oil to get the engine to last 500,000 miles (instead of 250,000) is pointless because the odds are either the car will die in an accident way before then, or you will sell it and buy a new more modern car anyway. As the owner of an over-maintained car, you may get a few more dollars for it than if you just followed the schedule, but the additional price you'll get will be less than the additional cost you paid to over maintain it; and the buyer will probably not believe you maintained it that well anyway.

So, I’m with you. Follow the manufacturer’s maintenance schedule, and buy a new car when the time comes you are bored with your current car (even if it is a mighty BMW).
Appreciate 0
      02-08-2011, 12:41 PM   #9
F32Fleet
BMWCCA since '03
F32Fleet's Avatar
United_States
69
Rep
5,325
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 435i
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Atlanta (Vinings)

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ENINTY View Post
Mike also thinks BMW cooling system components (post E30's) suck and recommends replacement of radiator, hoses, T-stat, and water pump every 60,000 miles.
Not really true. As of 2007 he recommends coolant changes every 2 yrs instead of 4 (current) and factory hose (water/fuel) every 150k miles.

Mike even admits that "his" service recommendations are nothing more than what they used to be with BMW.

It's well documented that Mike is not a fan of the plastic/metal composite radiators which came out with the E36 to the present. Nor is he a fan of the water pumps either (As we've seen on this board the E90's electric pumps seem to last ~60k miles). As a result he recommends preventive maintance and replacement of the radiator prior to 100k miles (Note: The radiator on my E90 330 when out at 25k miles..I'm not suggesting that it's a problem part but just wanted to let you know that is does happen).

On an unrelated note Mike's suggestions on ATF changes is interesting because he recommends more frequent changes but states it's no guarantee that they won't fail under 100k miles. So he's essentially washed his hands of the things.


Finally Mike makes it clear that his schedule is designed to help the car reach well in excess of 100k miles and that if you "do nothing" then the car will have no problem making 100k miles. And we all know that it could take a long time from some owners to reach 100k miles.

Finally I think that Mike's biggest gripe is that BMW has steadly limited the amount of work which can be performed by Indy shops due to supposed proprietory information arguement BMW has made with regards to releasing repair information and the need for a "$10k computer" which can read all of the diagnostic codes.


My $.02
Appreciate 0
      02-08-2011, 01:27 PM   #10
therealm3
Major
14
Rep
1,022
Posts

 
Drives: F30 335 Msport, E70 35i
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: CA, USA

iTrader: (6)

I have to say I agree with both sides here but ceb brings up a good point in that the issue now a days is most people don't pay attention to what is going on with their car till its borderline catastrophic. And I feel this is due in part to the "maintenance free" marketing. My good friend owns an independent shop and you would not believe some of the stories he tells me. People that call and say their car is making a "bit" of noise and they'd like to bring it in. Car arrives with completely blown suspension, metal on metal grinding, and a car that tracks all over the place. Or the one last week where a guy thought the red on the coolant gauge was a warning/advisory and drove the car for two days without any coolant (radiator on E46 leaked and he didn't notice it). He seized the motor and cooked the electronics under the hood. Could these types of things have been prevented if someone was doing more regular maintenance and looking the car over, I most certainly think so.

So for me, I follow pretty closely to the "Mike Miller" maintenance schedule for fluids and tune ups because it gives me an excuse to do a bit of wrenching, gets me looking at the car regularly, and gives me piece of mind knowing I am doing all I can to make it last that much longer. Do I agree with him on the replace all the cooling bits at 60k or 90k... no not necessarily. I figure for that kind of stuff, I will inspect and replace as needed. As with anything, there are many schools of thought and what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another.
Appreciate 0
      02-08-2011, 07:29 PM   #11
ENINTY
Banned
51
Rep
3,415
Posts

 
Drives: 2006 325i Sport
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socom View Post
Not really true. As of 2007 he recommends coolant changes every 2 yrs instead of 4 (current) and factory hose (water/fuel) every 150k miles.

Mike even admits that "his" service recommendations are nothing more than what they used to be with BMW.

It's well documented that Mike is not a fan of the plastic/metal composite radiators which came out with the E36 to the present. Nor is he a fan of the water pumps either (As we've seen on this board the E90's electric pumps seem to last ~60k miles). As a result he recommends preventive maintance and replacement of the radiator prior to 100k miles (Note: The radiator on my E90 330 when out at 25k miles..I'm not suggesting that it's a problem part but just wanted to let you know that is does happen).

On an unrelated note Mike's suggestions on ATF changes is interesting because he recommends more frequent changes but states it's no guarantee that they won't fail under 100k miles. So he's essentially washed his hands of the things.


Finally Mike makes it clear that his schedule is designed to help the car reach well in excess of 100k miles and that if you "do nothing" then the car will have no problem making 100k miles. And we all know that it could take a long time from some owners to reach 100k miles.

Finally I think that Mike's biggest gripe is that BMW has steadly limited the amount of work which can be performed by Indy shops due to supposed proprietory information arguement BMW has made with regards to releasing repair information and the need for a "$10k computer" which can read all of the diagnostic codes.


My $.02
From what I've read of Mike's recommendations, my source being Bimmer magazine, and to be fair he has made it clear that replacing radiators and other cooling system components is "preventative maintenance"; and that could be true with any car - with the definition of preventative maintenance being to replace something before it causes a breakdown. It's also clear from his writings that the E30 is what he considers as BMWs last well-built model. I owned an E30 for 18 years and did 90% of the maintenance on it, so I'm very well qualified to comment on E30 maintenance. I also own a 1997 Z3, which falls into Mike's category of poorly built BMWs. Understanding it is just a sample of 1 each, I found the Z3 to be more reliable at the same mileage than the E30. I have also found my 2006 E90 to be highly reliable, more than the E30, at the same mileage point, and maybe a bit less than the Z3. The Z3 is just starting to seep at the radiator drain (it's probably just the o-ring). It's due for a coolant service soon, so an easy fix then. But the radiator seems to be in good shape at 144,000 miles. As any car ages, things fail, for example my Z3 just needed new idler and tensioner pulleys, but these items failing have nothing to do with drive line fluid changes, brake fluid changes, and the like, and more related to age (bearings can only spin so many timesÖ).

And as I said before, a well maintained BMW (even if doubled up on maintenance items) at 250,000 miles is just a well-maintained BMW with 250,000 miles on it, which may garner a few thousand more dollars at resale (if you can convince the buyer the maintenance was actually done) and doesn't guarantee the car is any more reliable than one that was maintained on schedule. There are many more parts on a BMW that at that age and mileage will fail and are not affected by oil, coolant, trans, and diff oil changes, and are just as likely to render the car beyond economic repair as an engine or differential (for the typical owner who doesnít or isnít capable of performing in-depth, difficult repairs).
Appreciate 0
      02-08-2011, 07:40 PM   #12
F32Fleet
BMWCCA since '03
F32Fleet's Avatar
United_States
69
Rep
5,325
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 435i
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Atlanta (Vinings)

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ENINTY View Post
. There are many more parts on a BMW that at that age and mileage will fail and are not affected by oil, coolant, trans, and diff oil changes, and are just as likely to render the car beyond economic repair as an engine or differential (for the typical owner who doesnít or isnít capable of performing in-depth, difficult repairs).
Agree 100%.
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:18 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST