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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > [e92-335i-9000miles] Squeaking during 0-10mph acceleration.



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      02-25-2007, 11:26 AM   #1
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[e92-335i-9000miles] Squeaking during 0-10mph acceleration.

I don't trust dealers, but I trust the very well educated BMW maniacs here on this forum.

I've notices that around 0 - 10 mph, [e92-335i-9000miles] will present me with a squeak. This squeak is loud, loud enough to be heard with no music, no conversation, and windows closed, from the passenger side. I'm guessing it's coming from the front/passenger side wheel. Any guesses on the problem?

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      02-25-2007, 11:42 AM   #2
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It happens on my car as well. It is coming from the brakes. When I apply the brakes it goes away. Very annoying. I am supposed to ride around with the foreman at my dealership since they could not reproduce the problem on my last service visit. I'll let you know what they find.
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      02-25-2007, 12:08 PM   #3
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I had something similar a while back. It was a faint squeaking sound that would only occur while driving very slow. It seemed to start after doing a lot of stop and go driving.

It was nearly impossible for the dealer to reproduce, so I had to take one of the techs on a 30 minute ride to illustrate the sound. They said they found rust in the wheel hub and replaced a few parts of the emergency brake and the problem was solved. Hope that helps.
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      02-25-2007, 12:19 PM   #4
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Same problem. Squeaks when roll from a stop. Goes away with higher speed and when applying the brakes. Coming from right rear wheel. Dealer first said it was an ebrake issue and they said it was fixed. Then it was a brake sensor that needed to be replaced, and they cleaned out the brake pads...apparently there is alot of brake dust build up, along with some rust. This fixed the problem for about 2 weeks. Now the noise is back...not as loud, and not all of the time...but its there.

Apparently, everyone agrees that it has to do with the braking system and a car that is in constant stop and go traffic. I am not really sure how to remedy this problem....as the dealer has looked at it twice. Members on bimmerfest said that we need to clean out the brake assembly more often....so I guess I need to learn how to do this.

Here are the links to the discussions that I could remember

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=186052

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=187689
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      02-25-2007, 12:34 PM   #5
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This is one response I got from the thread above:

Pull the wheels. Remove the caliper lower bolt. Swing caliper out and up. Remove brake pads. Clean with spray brake cleaner. Spray everything associated with the caliper assembly. Take anti squeal shim and coat the side that is resting against the brake pad and coat it evenly with high temp silicon (RED STUFF) and place against pad. Do the same with the other pad. Place just a bit of High Temp silicon on the circumference of the caliper piston that rests against antisqueal shim. Let DRY. Then Assemble.
Now go out and see how much they squeal.


Here is the best explanation I got from the above thread...not sure if it is correct, but sounds likely:

Brake squeal comes from one source and one souce only, brake pads vibrating off the rotor. You fix that and you fixed the problem. Camphering the brakes pads is one solution to helping solve the problem and what ever tech did that was spot on if the edges were sharp on the pad causing the vibration. The reason the red silcon on the back of the pad works is that it helps to dampen the vibrations which in reality are still there. can you imagine BMW allowing a tech to put silicon on the backing side of the pads?
The other solution of cleaning the rotors and pads is a good one but in the case of your cars I think the reason it comes back is from yet another common problem with brakes. That problem is that the brakes transfer material to the rotors and when you have an uneven distribution of that tranferred material then you also get the vibration of the pads off the rotors which causes the squeal. zThat is usually caused by light braking over a long period of time. Anyone in stop and go traffic for long periods of time and doing light braking as you poke along?

One thing that might work which has worked for others at times is to do some aggressive braking. What you would be doing is making some fairly heavy braking at a good clip to help heat the brakes up and see if you can help this problem. It used to be called brake glazing but it really isn't. Just don't overheat your brakes and do this where you have no chance of someone rear ending you too.

You can break the brake pads in too gentley.

Usually BMW recommends replacing the rotors with the brake pads when the brake pad life is gone. That would solve the problem but would be expensive to an owner too if BMW doesn't cover that replacement. BMW recommends the rotors be replaced because the loss of material on the rotor will contribute to warped brake rotors which will piss off a driver even more then the squeal. New pads and turning the brake rotors down to remove the glaze is about the only solution. There maybe not sufficient thickness on the rotor to allow turning as well.

The problem you mention is not limited to BMW, my mates Toyota Avalon and my Ford Super Duty Diesel truck had warping issues after the dealer, in both cases "fixed" the problem and I had to correct it in less then 5K miles later.

I would bet the techs are truely working hard to fix your problem as indicated by both attempts having been correct things to do for some squeals but I would also bet BMW policy is to not replace rotors when it is on their nickle. If you can get the tech aside I would ask them about your rotors being glazed.
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      02-25-2007, 07:56 PM   #6
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Thanks.

See, this is why I trust you guys.

Although I'm unlikely to clean out my brakes... I'll be less annoyed knowing its one of the possible brake issues above.

Lastly, What is the point of being able to start the machine without the key?

[Example]
Hold brake and push start button with key inserted.
Engine starts.
Push stop button.
Engine stops.
Push and pull key out.
Hold brake and push start button without key inserted.
Engine starts.

Was this a BMW mistake? I thought BMW doesn't make mistakes. There had to be a point to this. Did they build ComfortAccess into all these machines?
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      04-09-2007, 02:43 PM   #7
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I've been noticing these squeaks for a long time, maybe for at least the last 10k miles, but I thought maybe if I keep driving it'll go away. Of course, it didn't. So I finally decided to take it in to service.

They told me that this is a prominent problem and BMW is currently "working on a fix," but right now, there is no fix. The guy said my pads are totally fine, not wearing thin, and that the noise is the result of the compound used in the pads. When they heat up, the friction with the rotor causes the squeak noise or something.

He said BMW is trying different compounds to fix the problem and once there is a fix, I will be notified to bring the car back in. But for now, there is no fix, and they're not allowed to try anything else (like replacing pads/rotors, etc).
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      04-09-2007, 02:55 PM   #8
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I was told it was the caliper slides that stick. Seems to help when they are cleaned out, but problems just keep coming back. BMW keeps saying its common with BMW cars, but it seems to be a REAL BIG problem with the E90's.

I am taking my car in for service next month..its the 30k mile service, and going to ask for oil change, new progman update, and to look at that squeak again.

I do hope they figure something out because the noise is really annoying!
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      04-09-2007, 03:17 PM   #9
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Wheels that squeal

I have the same issue with my 335i. It can be heard after driving more than 10 miles, when the wheels and the brakes warm up. When I took it to the dealer to have the car diagnosed, they could not reproduce the noise because the car was still cold.
However, one day I drove it to the dealer straight from home, about 15 miles, and the wheels were noisy like a locomotive. The shop forman heard the noise and scheduled an appointment to fix it.
Their fix was to de-glaze the rotors. Glazing occurs when instead of slamming on the brakes at every light, you let the car cruise and then you gently apply the brakes. However, glazing only causes the brakes to squeal when you stop on the brakes. So, after deglazing the rotors and spraying them with Anti Squeal Spray, they gave me the car back. I should mention that the car was in the shop from Thursday morning until Monday afternoon.
When I picked up the car, the SA told me what they have done to fix it, and I laughed out loud. I knew that would not fix the issue, and by the time I got home that day the wheels were squealing again.
So, I got a little ticked and wrote a letter to the general manager and the SA about the problem and threatened to file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau and also talk to some TV channels and newspapers. The next day, the GM called me to let me know that he's looking into the issue.
He called a day later to let me know that he is ordering new calipers for the back wheels and install them later this week. Based on his research and discussion with BMW in Germany, he thinks that is the solution to the squeals and noises coming from the car when starting from a stop and up to 20 mph.
Replacing the calipers may or may not solve the noise issue. We shall see.
The car had around 6000 miles on it when the noise started, about 3 months ago. It now has 10,500 miles on it, and the noise is still around.
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      04-09-2007, 03:20 PM   #10
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I just took my car in to have the brakes checked out (and got the iDrive software update) and got a similar response. They said that the brakes get "dirty" and start to squeak. Since I drove my car during the winter, they said there was also road-salt buildup which may have also contributed to the noise (though it was doing the same thing last spring/summer).

I have gone through the brake "cleaning" process 2 times in the 20 months I've owned my car, but it seems to only be a temporary fix. My brakes are still reporting about 10k miles remaining (already have 23k miles) and the sensors seem to be working fine.

I'll see how long it takes before the noise comes back. Hopefully, they will have a permanent fix by the time that happens.
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      04-15-2007, 09:39 AM   #11
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Wheels that squeal - possible solution

My car was in the shop on Friday, and the dealer replaced the back calipers. The wheels do not squeal anymore.
Maybe this will work for you as well.
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      04-15-2007, 01:42 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pincud View Post
My car was in the shop on Friday, and the dealer replaced the back calipers. The wheels do not squeal anymore.
Maybe this will work for you as well.
Damn! I wish my dealer would just replace them as well. Seems like it will solve the problem. The issue....will it just come back in time??

That is kewel that your dealer did that....mine just seems to want to "clean" them out for a very temporary fix.
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      04-15-2007, 01:51 PM   #13
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I myself tried the 'cleaning of the brake sensors'. Sometimes works, sometimes doesnt. In the E60s, brake squeal was notorious due to the material of the brake sensor, which would squeal horribly once touching the rotor. Bulliten was out for it, and we retrofitted most cars with the issue.

I find on the 3- and 5-series, chamfering the edges of the pads as earlier stated in this thread do wonders to eliminate the squeal. My pads are still new, so I havent experienced any issues yet. I find it odd how some pads on the front do not come with chamfered edges (E53s dont come with them in the front, but do in the back...or the other way around), or some come with chamfered edges all around , or just the front. In any case, I was trying a few things out on one customers car, and decided 'what the heck, let me bevel the edges and see what it does'.

Sure enough, after doing all the pads on the car, the noise stopped. But due to the soft material of the pads, the beveled edges probably wont last more than 5-6k miles, requiring to do it again. I would love to bevel it all the way down to the backing plate, but in the process you would remove so much material from the pads it would be contradicting to their use, and limit their stopping abilities.
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      04-15-2007, 02:03 PM   #14
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I had this problem with my e46 perf.pkg.BMW could never "reproduce the complaint".
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      04-15-2007, 03:18 PM   #15
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Oh wow! I've been noticing the squeek too! It's annoying but I know my BMW dealership won't give a crap.
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      04-15-2007, 06:58 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magmd View Post
Damn! I wish my dealer would just replace them as well. Seems like it will solve the problem. The issue....will it just come back in time??

That is kewel that your dealer did that....mine just seems to want to "clean" them out for a very temporary fix.
I wrote an email to the general manager about the issues, and indicated an willingness on my part to file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau, along with letters to the newspapers and TV stations. I don't know if that will work for you. Maybe it also helped that I was there every month with a bunch of problems and they wanted to pacify me...

Granted, I have had the car back since Friday afternoon, and so far no squeals - but, knock on wood.
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      04-15-2007, 07:37 PM   #17
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id looks at your tires before you go ripping out your breaks they just might need to be adjusted.
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      04-15-2007, 08:14 PM   #18
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I'm curious if having the calipers replaced will completely solve the squeaking brake problem. I recall the squeaking starting on my car while it was still fairly new (maybe a few months old). Each time they "clean" the brakes, the sound goes away for a few thousand miles or so.

My dealer is very good about working on a problem until it is solved. But, they have told me that there isn't any permanent solution and they seem to be fine with cleaning them twice during my past 20 months of ownership.
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      04-15-2007, 09:07 PM   #19
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Dealer replaced the pads and rotors. This fixed the problem for me. So far I have put 600miles on the car and there is till no squeal.
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      04-15-2007, 10:51 PM   #20
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I love the "search" function.

Thanks magmd.
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      05-15-2007, 03:09 PM   #21
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UPDATE:

Ok, so I took my car in last week for this issue. They replaced the brake sensor and replace the brake pads. The noise is gone for now. I am not totally convinced this is a "fix" since the last time they looked at it...noise came back within 1-2 weeks. So far so good though...and I am happy they actually "replaced" something instead of just cleaning it out. At least...I have to believe they did as stated on the work order.

Bottom line...I am happy the noise is gone for now. Hopefully this will last for some time. Good luck boys!

My car has now been worked on 3 times for this issue. So next time...does that mean I can Lemon Law this???
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      05-19-2007, 11:14 PM   #22
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It's been just over a month since I took my car in for service and the brake squealing is back!

This is really getting annoying to have a relatively new BMW that makes more noise than a NYC taxi!!! Like others have mentioned, the sound only occurs while driving a low speed and actually goes away when I apply the brakes. Previously, it seemed to be related to frequent stop and go driving. Now it seems to start anytime I drive for more than 10 minutes or so.

The strange thing is that I have never heard this sound from any of the BMW (all E90) loaners that I have recieved. I will try again to find a solution to this problem.
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