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      02-18-2011, 08:22 PM   #1
austinjsb8
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E90 Logic 7 upgrade questions

Okay guys,

I hate to make a NEW post as there are SO MANY concerning these issues but i have spent the last two days reading things on the internet and i simply cannot get the direction i am looking for.

My goal is to upgrade the Logic 7 stereo as i think the aftermarket 4 speaker + subwoofer system in my Seqouia sounds WAY better... so much for the 13 speakers I also install everything myself as i enjoy it and value what i learn. I am no professional but i can handle the install, it'll just take me a while

Here is what i gathered from reading other posts:
- Simply adding an aftermarket Subwoofer is quite simple with a TRUNK-PAC LOC, amplifier and sub. I am currently planning to install my 13w6 in sealed box with a JL 500/1 this weekend.
- Upgrading the speakers and factory amp is MUCH more difficult.
- From what I can tell there are really three main options:
1) Easiest option would be to purchase the BSW stage 1, and possibly stage 2
2) Purchase a JL Cleansweep or Rockford 3sixty.2 etc. which will give me the ability to fully replace the speakers and factory amp to my preferences, along with countless equilizer settings, etc.
3) Pruchase a JL HD amp or similar which i think i read connects to the factory speakers without a Cleansweep/3sixty.2? Not sure if this is correct.

So here are my questions:
1) SUBWOOFER: I have the SOEM-T PAC LOC and it can handle 60watts. Is this adequate? i've read you should have 70+? Also my 330 does not have fold down rear seats. Will i even be able to hear the JL Sub or will all the sound simply stay in the trunk? Also is dynamatting worth the time and is it really difficult?
2) Does the BWS stage 1 really improve the sound of the interior speakers, or are they still underperforming due to the factory amp and being over processed/equalized? If so does the stage 2 solve this problem?
3) Will installing a Cleansweep/3sixty.2, new amps and new speakers really make that much difference over the BWS stage 1? Assuming i buy some good quality speakers and amps (reasonably priced) will it end up sounding that much better than the BWS? Keep in mind i am no audiophile, just don't want to blow $700 on the BWS and be dissapointed, when i can spend more but actually get improvement.

I guess i am looking for someone with experience lisitening to both the BWS system as well as a fully customized system using the Cleansweep/3sixty.2 or similar.

Thanks for your time, and I appologize for posting questions i know are ALL OVER the net.

AJ
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      02-19-2011, 08:27 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by austinjsb8 View Post
Okay guys,

I hate to make a NEW post as there are SO MANY concerning these issues but i have spent the last two days reading things on the internet and i simply cannot get the direction i am looking for.

My goal is to upgrade the Logic 7 stereo as i think the aftermarket 4 speaker subwoofer system in my Seqouia sounds WAY better... so much for the 13 speakers I also install everything myself as i enjoy it and value what i learn. I am no professional but i can handle the install, it'll just take me a while

Here is what i gathered from reading other posts:
- Simply adding an aftermarket Subwoofer is quite simple with a TRUNK-PAC LOC, amplifier and sub. I am currently planning to install my 13w6 in sealed box with a JL 500/1 this weekend.
- Upgrading the speakers and factory amp is MUCH more difficult.
- From what I can tell there are really three main options:
1) Easiest option would be to purchase the BSW stage 1, and possibly stage 2
2) Purchase a JL Cleansweep or Rockford 3sixty.2 etc. which will give me the ability to fully replace the speakers and factory amp to my preferences, along with countless equilizer settings, etc.
3) Pruchase a JL HD amp or similar which i think i read connects to the factory speakers without a Cleansweep/3sixty.2? Not sure if this is correct.

So here are my questions:
1) SUBWOOFER: I have the SOEM-T PAC LOC and it can handle 60watts. Is this adequate? i've read you should have 70 ? Also my 330 does not have fold down rear seats. Will i even be able to hear the JL Sub or will all the sound simply stay in the trunk? Also is dynamatting worth the time and is it really difficult?
2) Does the BWS stage 1 really improve the sound of the interior speakers, or are they still underperforming due to the factory amp and being over processed/equalized? If so does the stage 2 solve this problem?
3) Will installing a Cleansweep/3sixty.2, new amps and new speakers really make that much difference over the BWS stage 1? Assuming i buy some good quality speakers and amps (reasonably priced) will it end up sounding that much better than the BWS? Keep in mind i am no audiophile, just don't want to blow $700 on the BWS and be dissapointed, when i can spend more but actually get improvement.

I guess i am looking for someone with experience lisitening to both the BWS system as well as a fully customized system using the Cleansweep/3sixty.2 or similar.

Thanks for your time, and I appologize for posting questions i know are ALL OVER the net.

AJ
Hi there
Would you sell your logic7 when you have upgraded ;o) I do not even have AMP in my car... If you are interested please send me a mail
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      02-19-2011, 10:03 AM   #3
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http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=420444

I added an MS-8 processor, a tweeter to the center channel, replaced the underseat woofers with Morel CW-8, and added a 4 channel amp.

My recommendation would be to get the MS-8 and a tweeter for the center, Technic's harness, hook it all up and see how you like it. You can then upgrade from there, if you like. Depends what you want. If you want good tonality and imaging, the above will suffice. If you want deep bass, add a trunk sub. If you want impact in the midbass range, add a 2-channel amp to the underseat woofers.

You can get the MS-8 and the tweeter and the harness for under $800, and if you want to add a 2-channel amp, you can get that for under $200. IMO, audiophile sound for roughly $1000.
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      02-19-2011, 12:23 PM   #4
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So does the JBL MS-8 provide a similar function to the rockford 3sixty.2? Does this unit replace the factory amp? Do you leave the amp in place or remove it? Do the factory speakers sound much better with the MS-8?
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      02-19-2011, 01:58 PM   #5
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You should try turning off L7 and listening to it that way for a while.

I have l7 off, my underseats amped, and have a type r in a sealed enclosure in my trunk powered by a JL 500/1.

If you add a trunk sub and use that JL 500, buy the speaker to RCA adapter from JL so you can use speaker level inputs. This way you don't have to run a rem lead from the HU. It's only like $10 too but if you decided to use the LOC instead,60w should be fine....just keep the bass adjustment on the dash in the middle and set the gain on the jL accordingly.

Good luck!
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      02-19-2011, 08:07 PM   #6
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Totally forget staging with L7 off.... may be better though if you are listening to Techno.
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      02-19-2011, 08:13 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by austinjsb8 View Post
So does the JBL MS-8 provide a similar function to the rockford 3sixty.2? Does this unit replace the factory amp? Do you leave the amp in place or remove it? Do the factory speakers sound much better with the MS-8?
It does more than the 3sixty since it autotunes the car for you. It also has 8 channels of internal amplification which will come in handy with all those speakers in your car...

No, it does not physically replace the OEM amp, it works with the speaker level outputs from the OEM amp.

Does it sound better than stock? Yessireee.
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      02-19-2011, 11:52 PM   #8
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Thanks for the advice. It sounds like going with the Ms-8 and technics harness is the cheapest and best way to go before committing to additional amps and speakers. And allows you to go this route if desired. If I do go with the MS-8 and decode to add an amp for the speakers does everything still run through the MS-8 and then through the factory amp? Also, Question: I can't PM yet, so how can I contact Technic to purchase a harness?
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      02-20-2011, 08:19 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by austinjsb8 View Post
Thanks for the advice. It sounds like going with the Ms-8 and technics harness is the cheapest and best way to go before committing to additional amps and speakers. And allows you to go this route if desired. If I do go with the MS-8 and decode to add an amp for the speakers does everything still run through the MS-8 and then through the factory amp? Also, Question: I can't PM yet, so how can I contact Technic to purchase a harness?
Make sure you get an additional tweeter for the center or a new coaxial. MS-8 has both speaker level and pre-amp outputs. You can pick which ones you want to run through an amp. Search some of Technic's posts here, he has posted his email address.
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      02-20-2011, 09:18 AM   #10
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Before you go all out messing with your car, try the Logic 7 with the following settings:

Bass +10 Treble +3 Balance +0 Fade ^3

Speed Volume 1

Music, Checked

All other settings default/disabled

Frequencies (in order from lows to highs): +8 +3 +0 -3 0 -1 0

The last step is important or it will all sound terrible you MUST play your music through an ipod using a 3.5mm cable and set the ipod on "bass reducer" by going to settings > ipod > EQ.

I would agree that the system doesn't sound good at all in the default settings but it has a lot of potential when set up correctly, everyone who's been in my car has commented that the system sounds like one of the best they've ever heard.

The reason why this setup uses such weird settings is because the dynamic equalizers on the car do a lot of weird things when you set the bass to absolute max which results in signficantly improving the way the system sounds so this setup takes advantage of that.

I think you'll be pleasantly suprised by setting up the car like this. My weekend car is one of the top dozen or so best sounding cars in the entire country in it's class (It's an IASCA and MECA competition winner), so I really have high standards when I say something sounds good.
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Last edited by Legion5; 04-15-2011 at 07:10 AM.
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      02-20-2011, 03:14 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legion5 View Post
Before you go all out messing with your car, try the Logic 7 with the following settings:

Bass +10 Treble +3 Balance +0 Fade ^3

Speed Volume 1

All other settings default/disabled

Frequencies (in order from lows to highs): +8 +3 +0 -3 0 -1 0

The last step is important or it will all sound terrible you MUST play your music through an ipod using a 3.5mm cable and set the ipod on "bass reducer" by going to settings > ipod > EQ.

I would agree that the system doesn't sound good at all in the default settings but it has a lot of potential when set up correctly, everyone who's been in my car has commented that the system sounds like one of the best they've ever heard.

The reason why this setup uses such weird settings is because the dynamic equalizers on the car do a lot of weird things when you set the bass to absolute max which results in signficantly improving the way the system sounds so this setup takes advantage of that.

I think you'll be pleasantly suprised by setting up the car like this. My weekend car is one of the top dozen or so best sounding cars in the entire country in it's class (It's an IASCA and MECA competition winner), so I really have high standards when I say something sounds good.
Wow, gotta say I like these settings, seems less muddy. I am curious to see how they sound with the sub in. Will report later today.
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      02-20-2011, 05:17 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by austinjsb8 View Post
Wow, gotta say I like these settings, seems less muddy. I am curious to see how they sound with the sub in. Will report later today.
Like crap.....+10 on the bass

Unless your gain is on the lowest setting I don't think +10 bass, and +8, 100Hz on the EQ will allow any sub to sound good.....
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      02-21-2011, 11:36 AM   #13
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Yes, those settings did not sound great with the sub installed as expected. To be honest, the 13w6 is too much for this car in my opinion. I have the gain on the first click and the sub is too loud. I have only installed subs in SUV/hatchbacks before and my concern about the bass being "caught" in the trunk and simply rattling with not so much bass being transferred to the cab was somewhat confirmed. I will likely try to do some dynamitting in the trunk and probably trade my w6/500/1 for a 10/w6 and 250/1.

Thanks for the help.
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