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      02-20-2011, 05:45 AM   #1
Wozzer335d
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Question 335d cut out

Hi there,

I have a e90 335d Sport which is a 2009 facelift and has done 57,000 miles.

In the last 2 days the engine has cut out twice without warning. It is booked into a dealer on Tuesday for a check but i wanted to see if there is anything obvious i should ask them to check before they wave me away with a 'looks fine mister'.

Both times the engine has cut whilst accelerating at approx 20mph. The engine has simply cut out instantly - no hesitation or jerking.

The first time i attempted to restart the engine but the starter motor just cranked away with no hint of firing at all. Eventually i took the key out, put it back in again and it restarted immediately.

There were no warning lights or anything.

It then did the same thing yesterday. The engine was warm both times and had been driving for at least 10 minutes before cutting out. Once I'd restarted yesterday, it carried on fine for another hour.

I'm not planning on driving the car now till it goes to the dealer but is there anything obvious i can check?

The only thing changed recently on the car was a replacement turbo hose causing an oil leak which was well documented in this thread on here:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281232


Many thanks for any suggestions.


Marc
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      02-20-2011, 06:14 AM   #2
jasonprice07
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Hi,
Diesel engines only cut out instantly if the fuel delivery is stopped. Hence the dealers first investigation should be of the FIE (fuel injection system).
Stopping the engine is a very last resort as it puts the vehicle in a dangerous position, no power steering etc.

You could give some of the sensor connectors a wiggle, rail pressire, cam , crank, and check the battery terminals are tight.

Other than that, leave it to the dealer to investigate.

Jason
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      02-20-2011, 07:31 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonprice07 View Post
Hi,
Diesel engines only cut out instantly if the fuel delivery is stopped. Hence the dealers first investigation should be of the FIE (fuel injection system).
Stopping the engine is a very last resort as it puts the vehicle in a dangerous position, no power steering etc.

You could give some of the sensor connectors a wiggle, rail pressire, cam , crank, and check the battery terminals are tight.

Other than that, leave it to the dealer to investigate.

Jason
Good luck wiggling that crank sensor!
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      02-20-2011, 09:23 AM   #4
Wozzer335d
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Thanks Jason. Nothing obviously loose.

I'll see what the dealer says and make sure they explore the fuel system if neccessary.

2nd dealer visit in 2 months since buying the car - hope I haven't bought a lemon....
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      02-23-2011, 09:50 AM   #5
Wozzer335d
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Car has been at the dealers for 2 days now. These started to work on it but apparently it is refusing point blank to start at all now!

Data from the car is with Head Office who are decising how to try and fix it
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      02-23-2011, 10:11 AM   #6
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Were you in a cloud of smoke doing a doughnut or something like that?
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M3 gone .... But I now have a M3 CS
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      02-23-2011, 10:11 AM   #7
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Keep us updated with the diagnosis

Hope it all works out for you
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      02-23-2011, 10:23 AM   #8
Wozzer335d
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dxb335d View Post
Were you in a cloud of smoke doing a doughnut or something like that?
Haha no couldn't be further - driving slowly with my kids in the back when the engine just cut out at about 20mph when the throttle was applied.

Dealer seemed to think the fact that the car cranked without restarting as significant when I dropped it off but whatever inital work they have done has meant the car now refuses to start.

Head office exploring before authorising any further warranty work I guess.
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      02-23-2011, 10:25 AM   #9
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Hmm Strange, maybe ECU related. I have had it before when Ive been mid burnout, well into the throttle travel schmokin' real well and stopped. Think it was a safety thing, trying not to kil the box. Did it a few times. Most times not though.
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      02-25-2011, 12:32 PM   #10
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Still no fix. All 6 injectors have now been replaced but car still not starting.

Dealer suspects its the DDE unit but isn't getting the go-ahead from BMW yet.

Head office requested further tests today and the data has been sent down to them this afternoon. Seems its an unusual fault then.

Fix not expected till Tuesday at earliest but dealer have provided a courtesy car anyway.

Maybe they'll fit lots more shiny new pieces to my engine before fixing it
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      02-25-2011, 12:42 PM   #11
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On what basis did they replace all 6 injectors? Did they actually check to see if they were faulty first?

I'm starting to see a pattern emerging here in some recent threads. Problem with the engine? Replace all 6 injectors...job done. Surely?
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      02-25-2011, 01:22 PM   #12
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They thought 1 injector was showing a fault so replaced it. That was when the car then refused point blank to start.........

Head office then told the dealer to replace the other 5 but the dealer told me at the time he was very sceptical that would achieve anything.....
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      02-25-2011, 03:55 PM   #13
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Normally with "unusual faults" the maufacturers technical centre would be asked to get invovled or even the FIE supplier on diesel engines, as they know more about their kit than the OEM (Bosch for our cars).
The tech centre guy would have the calibration sofware on his laptop which can give way more information than the dealer would ever get on his diagnostic tool.

Hope they sort it soon

Jason
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      02-25-2011, 04:02 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonprice07 View Post
Normally with "unusual faults" the maufacturers technical centre would be asked to get invovled or even the FIE supplier on diesel engines, as they know more about their kit than the OEM (Bosch for our cars).
The tech centre guy would have the calibration sofware on his laptop which can give way more information than the dealer would ever get on his diagnostic tool.

Hope they sort it soon

Jason
BMW DDE's are mainly siemens or VDO
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      02-25-2011, 04:53 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wozzer335d View Post
They thought 1 injector was showing a fault so replaced it. That was when the car then refused point blank to start.........

Head office then told the dealer to replace the other 5 but the dealer told me at the time he was very sceptical that would achieve anything.....
I've been bitching about this methodology for "fixing" faults in several threads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnySi View Post
BMW DDE's are mainly siemens or VDO
But the injectors are Bosch aren't they?
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      02-25-2011, 05:55 PM   #16
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Maybe something to do with the fuel pump / electrical.
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      02-26-2011, 03:09 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnySi View Post
BMW DDE's are mainly siemens or VDO
Both BMW diesels I have owned are Bosch systems, its true OEM's use different suppliers at times, BOSCH, Simmens, Denso or Delphi for diesels. Until recently German OEM's would only use German suppliers, but that has changed now with Delphi supplying both Damlier and VW.

Jason
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      03-03-2011, 07:43 AM   #18
Wozzer335d
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High pressure pump has apparently been replaced and got the car working.

However, as the car has lots of fault codes logged Head Office have requested that the dealer hold on to the car for a few more days and continue to run lots of further tests.

Dealer said it looks like they are trying to understand the reasons behind the faults.

Would appear a bit more constructive than replacing the injectors every five minutes?
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      03-05-2011, 09:42 AM   #19
Wozzer335d
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Hmmm. So yesterday it got more confusing again.

I'll explain it how the dealer explained it to me, and I'm sure someone on here will be able to translate!

He said:

Imagine the car is on a heart monitor, and it has two traces. The pattern of the two traces should be identical as each command is given ie change into 2nd gear.

The traces on my car are not matching - for every 40 commands on one line, there were only 8 in the other.

When the main module was by-passed, the traces were matched fine.

So they think there is a fault somewhere in a wiring loom, somewhere in the car and were planning to take the car apart and test connections, piece by piece.

After half an hour though, they found a wire which was running over instead of under (or vice versa - can't remember) and the wire was crimped by a bolt as a result. They are hopeful this may cure things.-

Does that make sense to anyone?

It certainly seems to make a mockery of the initial 'replace all injectors' approach which Toxicnerve has highlighted from other threads on here.

If this was the cause, then it sounds like something simply uniquely unlucky on my car rather than any actual issue with the 335d.

Thank goodness i'm under warranty. The car will have been at the dealer for the best part of 2 weeks.
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      03-05-2011, 02:38 PM   #20
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CANBUS Network?

It sounds to me that the dealer is described the communication network by which each of the cars ECU's (engine, transmission, ABS, ESP etc) talk to one another. If a signal from one ECU is not received at the correct time by another, the recepient ECU assumes there is a fault with the sending module and ignores any future messages.
So if there was damage to any of the CAN wires you will get faults being set.

Jason
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      03-12-2011, 05:18 PM   #21
Wozzer335d
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Sigh.

Yes Jason you were correct - it was the Canbus network and a caught wire was found behind the dash. That is now fixed.

However....

when road testing the car again it produced fault codes in....guess what... the same injector as when i first took the car in nearly 3 weeks ago.

Clearly it cannot be the injector - all 6 have long since been replaced. And now, this cylinder is now showing up as 'low pressure'.

Dealer says they will be taking a look next week and the head may be coming off.

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      07-22-2012, 12:11 PM   #22
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Same issue here...

Hi Marc,

Could you share the resolution with us, please? I am having the same issue with my 335D. Which garage did the repair for you?

Thanks,

Csaba
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