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      05-05-2015, 04:44 PM   #1
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Cobb Catted Downpipe Feedback?

I am looking for feedback from members who are using the Cobb Catted Downpipe. I am lookin at getting PTF's to due a custom tune and they recommend the Cobb catted downpipe for my circumstances as a spirited daily driver in an area that has emission testing.

http://www.**********s.com/cobb-tuni...5-downpipe.htm

Thanks,
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      05-06-2015, 12:52 AM   #2
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I would get catless downpipes instead. If you are looking for only catted ones, cobb is a good option.
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      05-06-2015, 10:34 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
I would get catless downpipes instead. If you are looking for only catted ones, cobb is a good option.
Hi Mike,

How much greater would the performance be? PTF recommends a catted DP. While the cost of a Catless downpipes may be cheaper initially, it would cost more in the long run because of the labour cost of having to uninstall it for emissions testing and then reinstall it afterwards.

What about Wagner Catted Downpipes as they seem to be priced very well?

Appreciate your expertise and look forward to hearing back from you.

Thanks,
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      05-06-2015, 02:11 PM   #4
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AR 4" catted was the best design on a DP that I've ever seen.
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      05-06-2015, 07:18 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D's Bimmer View Post
Hi Mike,


What about Wagner Catted Downpipes as they seem to be priced very well?
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=974652

Cutting to the chase. The Wagner catted DP tripped a CEL for me. I am sure it would pass a sniff test though. But if O2 sensor readiness gets checked in your emissions test you won't pass.
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      05-06-2015, 08:40 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D's Bimmer View Post
Hi Mike,

How much greater would the performance be? PTF recommends a catted DP. While the cost of a Catless downpipes may be cheaper initially, it would cost more in the long run because of the labour cost of having to uninstall it for emissions testing and then reinstall it afterwards.

What about Wagner Catted Downpipes as they seem to be priced very well?

Appreciate your expertise and look forward to hearing back from you.

Thanks,
Hi,
Hard to say since there i have not seen anyone do a comparison but you will get a much more noticeable gain with catless downpipes.
Did PTF tell you why they are recommending catted instead of catless?
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      05-07-2015, 07:49 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Hi,
Hard to say since there i have not seen anyone do a comparison but you will get a much more noticeable gain with catless downpipes.
So nobody seems to has swapped from catless to high flow and seen a noticeable decrease in power or vise versa. But you're using this lack of information to make the claim there will indeed be a much more noticeable gain when going catless. Got it.

I see similar statements made and they're usually by people in places with no emissions testing. I mean go for it! What has he got to lose besides having to budget $700-$1,000/year on downpipe swaps so he can pass emissions annually!

With my high flow cat I easily pass my rapid screen roadside emissions testing every time. So I don't regret getting the majority of the power benefit without having to spend two weekends per year performing the miserable task of swapping out downpipes like I would have to if it were catless.
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      05-07-2015, 07:58 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_Q View Post
So nobody seems to has swapped from catless to high flow and seen a noticeable decrease in power or vise versa. But you're using this lack of information to make the claim there will indeed be a much more noticeable gain when going catless. Got it.

I see similar statements made and they're usually by people in places with no emissions testing. I mean go for it! What has he got to lose besides having to budget $700-$1,000/year on downpipe swaps so he can pass emissions annually!

With my high flow cat I easily pass my rapid screen roadside emissions testing every time. So I don't regret getting the majority of the power benefit without having to spend two weekends per year performing the miserable task of swapping out downpipes like I would have to if it were catless.
Hmm
You do realize that we sell catted donwpipes as well and they are more expensive (almost double the price) meaning that we make more money if we advertise the catted ones. So im not sure why i would purposely advertise the catless donwpipes if i did not think they are a better investment?

the gains are noticeable and the margin gets bigger with the higher boost targets. Also the WGDC with catless downpipes is lower, meaning that you can achieve the same boost target without putting as much stress on your turbos.

I never said catted downpipes are bad and should not be bought in any situation, all i said was that i think the catless are a better investment because of what they offer at the low price.
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      05-07-2015, 08:40 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Hmm
You do realize that we sell catted donwpipes as well and they are more expensive (almost double the price) meaning that we make more money if we advertise the catted ones. So im not sure why i would purposely advertise the catless donwpipes if i did not think they are a better investment?

the gains are noticeable and the margin gets bigger with the higher boost targets. Also the WGDC with catless downpipes is lower, meaning that you can achieve the same boost target without putting as much stress on your turbos.

I never said catted downpipes are bad and should not be bought in any situation, all i said was that i think the catless are a better investment because of what they offer at the low price.
I'm not sure that folks in locations with emissions testing requirements would agree with you on the low price. Swapping out your downpipe two times/yr would actually be very expensive, not to mention time consuming.

I am also curious why you are saying there would be noticeable gains? I have never seen a comparison (even a subjective one) and you admit to the same thing yourself. I'm not debating that there would be a gain going fully catless, but I question how noticeable it is without ever seeing results from anyone who has used both. If you are aware of anyone who has made the comparison then I would be curious to see it.

And lastly, I doubt many people on this board are all that concerned with stressing their turbo. Basically stressing your turbo is the purpose of this forum!
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      05-07-2015, 09:12 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Hmm
You do realize that we sell catted donwpipes as well and they are more expensive (almost double the price) meaning that we make more money if we advertise the catted ones. So im not sure why i would purposely advertise the catless donwpipes if i did not think they are a better investment?

the gains are noticeable and the margin gets bigger with the higher boost targets. Also the WGDC with catless downpipes is lower, meaning that you can achieve the same boost target without putting as much stress on your turbos.

I never said catted downpipes are bad and should not be bought in any situation, all i said was that i think the catless are a better investment because of what they offer at the low price.
The challenge I am still wrestling with is that basically having to swap the Catless downpipes just once negates any cost savings over Catted pipes with labour costs.
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      05-07-2015, 11:54 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D's Bimmer View Post
The challenge I am still wrestling with is that basically having to swap the Catless downpipes just once negates any cost savings over Catted pipes with labour costs.
I'm not sure how mechanically inclined you are, but if you can swap them yourself then it's worth it and it'll only cost you a few hours of your time per year. The swap becomes much easier once you've done it once or twice.

If you're not the type to install this yourself, then in your case it may be better to just go catted. Just be aware that as far as I know, every single aftermarket catted downpipe will eventually get the check engine light. If your state does OBD2 testing, it will not pass even with a catted pipe. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, please!
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      05-07-2015, 02:09 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by turo View Post
I'm not sure how mechanically inclined you are, but if you can swap them yourself then it's worth it and it'll only cost you a few hours of your time per year. The swap becomes much easier once you've done it once or twice.

If you're not the type to install this yourself, then in your case it may be better to just go catted. Just be aware that as far as I know, every single aftermarket catted downpipe will eventually get the check engine light. If your state does OBD2 testing, it will not pass even with a catted pipe. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, please!
This

The only thing I'd debate is that it that the install wasn't that simple. It took me 5 hrs the first time. If I had to do it again maybe I could manage it in 4. Just the thought of having to do it within a week or two of having just done it to install the stock cat for emissions testing is enough to depress me. It was not very fun work.
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      05-07-2015, 09:46 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_Q View Post
I'm not sure that folks in locations with emissions testing requirements would agree with you on the low price. Swapping out your downpipe two times/yr would actually be very expensive, not to mention time consuming.

I am also curious why you are saying there would be noticeable gains? I have never seen a comparison (even a subjective one) and you admit to the same thing yourself. I'm not debating that there would be a gain going fully catless, but I question how noticeable it is without ever seeing results from anyone who has used both. If you are aware of anyone who has made the comparison then I would be curious to see it.

And lastly, I doubt many people on this board are all that concerned with stressing their turbo. Basically stressing your turbo is the purpose of this forum!
Actually if you look closely at logs you are not stressing your turbos when using catless DP.
Check the WGDC and you will see that most of the time your turbos are working under 70%
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      05-08-2015, 08:09 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Actually if you look closely at logs you are not stressing your turbos when using catless DP.
Check the WGDC and you will see that most of the time your turbos are working under 70%
FWIW, if that is a concern, I can tell you that pulls with my HFC also have WGDC < 70%.
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      05-08-2015, 10:35 AM   #15
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Sure, emissions are a bitch. But, if you can manage to swap for emissions each year, catless is well worth it. After all, we don't modify cars to save money
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      05-08-2015, 11:53 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Sidewinderpb View Post
Sure, emissions are a bitch. But, if you can manage to swap for emissions each year, catless is well worth it. After all, we don't modify cars to save money
Do you realize that a high flow cat achieves the majority of the gains that a catless downpipe does? If you are using an OTS cobb map then performance is basically identical with a fully catless setup only spooling slightly quicker?
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      05-08-2015, 01:38 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_Q View Post
Do you realize that a high flow cat achieves the majority of the gains that a catless downpipe does? If you are using an OTS cobb map then performance is basically identical with a fully catless setup only spooling slightly quicker?
Do you realize that the majority of people are running JB4's, for which the most ideal map is designed for catless downpipes?
Do you realize that you are being a bit pushy?
Do you realize that your opinions are not shared by all?

Go buy a Prius.
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      05-08-2015, 05:57 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidewinderpb
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_Q View Post
Do you realize that a high flow cat achieves the majority of the gains that a catless downpipe does? If you are using an OTS cobb map then performance is basically identical with a fully catless setup only spooling slightly quicker?
Do you realize that the majority of people are running JB4's, for which the most ideal map is designed for catless downpipes?
Do you realize that you are being a bit pushy?
Do you realize that your opinions are not shared by all?

Go buy a Prius.
:
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      05-09-2015, 01:16 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_Q View Post
FWIW, if that is a concern, I can tell you that pulls with my HFC also have WGDC < 70%.
Not sure why you keep arguing about this.
Catless downpipes will give you more power and less stress on the turbos, this is a fact.
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      05-10-2015, 03:12 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Not sure why you keep arguing about this.
Catless downpipes will give you more power and less stress on the turbos, this is a fact.
Mike, please bear in mind that this is the N55 forum. Many here are either still under warranty, or CPO. While taking out a JB4 and a charge pipe may not take all that much time, a downpipe may seem quite daunting, and is indicative of having done other things. Maybe the guy just wants something with a bit more power, and wants to put it in and leave it, uh hum, yanking it out for inspection be darned.
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      05-10-2015, 05:38 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzie335i View Post
Mike, please bear in mind that this is the N55 forum. Many here are either still under warranty, or CPO. While taking out a JB4 and a charge pipe may not take all that much time, a downpipe may seem quite daunting, and is indicative of having done other things. Maybe the guy just wants something with a bit more power, and wants to put it in and leave it, uh hum, yanking it out for inspection be darned.
Catted downpipes throw CEL lights and do not pass inspection. This has been discussed so many times that I'm not sure how there's still confusion. The dealership can also void your warranty for a catted downpipe just as quickly as they would with catless. Do you really think they can't tell the difference between their stock DP and aftermarket HFC? I don't know how this is even a big discussion. If inspections and dealership visits are a huge concern then don't get a downpipe at all. If you are willing to pay to play then just go with catless and be done with it. Why would you pay double the money for less power and the same emissions issues?
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      05-10-2015, 07:40 PM   #22
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JB, I knew this information already, hence why I don't already have one myself. I was merely putting every possible question / angle in one post, so Dan Q can get all of his answers, without the hostility. If I want that xxit myself, I'll go to the audio pages. I lot of egos, ready to pounce on a newbie without time to search and view every thread. Speaking of pay to play, those same guys also tend to not be buying anything new themselves any time soon. So why are they there if they aren't doing so... and already know it all? BTW, Dan may have seen the thread from just the other day, once again promising to be able to cheat the man on CEL lights. Maybe once my CPO is done someone will have a magic cube for me.
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