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      02-07-2011, 05:58 PM   #1
Dackelone
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Exclamation Sulfur free gas and the new E10 fuel in Germany…




Hi Guys,

As some of you probably already know… the Germans are phasing in this new Bio fuel “E10”. Every German gas station will have it by the end of this month. E10 contains 10% Ethanol. Not so good for our HPFP or injectors.

Regular Benzin is no longer sold. E10 took its place. And now… Super grade fuel contains up to 5% Ethanol too. Only SuperPlus is straight fuel. No additives or diluted with Ethanol. Many Germans are upset that their older cars can not run any Ethanol blend. So they are forced to buy the higher priced SuperPlus.

Btw… I noticed today at my Esso that now E10 is ten cent cheaper than SuperPlus. Super (E05 if you will or 5% Ethanol) and SuperPlus ARE THE SAME PRICE. Why would anyone run Super IF SuperPlus is the same price!?!?

So… for all you guys… I would highly suggest you only buy and use SuperPlus fuel in your BMWs.

The pumps on US Bases will also be affected soon. By the end of this month Regular gas will be gone forever.


[font=Verdana]http://www.bmu.de/files/pdfs/allgemein/application/pdf/faltblatt_e10_bf.pdf[/FONT[/url]]


I made these pics to show you the German DIN decals on the pump stating the fuel you are pumping is indeed “Sulfur Free” (Schwefelfrei) – it also shows you that the SuperPlus is 98 octane. The little blue decals are from the state of Bavaria attesting that the pumps have been calibrated.



Tanken with SuperPlus…

Sulfur free seal…

I had just a tad more than half a tank when I filled up.


Btw… the above less than half tank translates into $7.91 per US gallon! Think of that the next time you fill up and complain about the price of fuel. Of course we Military folks are paying about $3.60 per US gallon this week. Our price of fuel changes weekly – based on US stateside prices.


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      02-09-2011, 04:55 PM   #2
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Taken from the 1addicts page... I thought I would update this thread too:


Quote:
Originally Posted by FDM68 View Post
Dackel, I havn't seen them E10 on base here. How are they marking it on the pumps out your way? I'd not trust AAFES to make this a broad statement nor mark anything if they could get away with not having to. Not that I use low octane in my cars but was just wondering.








AAFES labels the ethanol gas as: E10 Super. Just as the German gas stations do off post (see Esso photos above). I think this must be some sort of German law. Every gas station in Germany will have switched over to E10 by the end of this month.



E10 Super replaces regular unleaded gas, but has a higher octane of 95 - the same as Super grade gas. Hence, the confusing new name of: E10 Super.



There are three grades of fuel (Benzin) sold in Germany now.



E10 Super (10% ethanol) 95 octane

Super (up to 5% ethanol now) 95 octane

SuperPlus (NO Ethanol!) and 98 octane.



I think it would be wise to run only SuperPlus, given our HPFP problems. Besides... I always run the highest octane fuel I can buy/find. Sometimes I even go to Shell for V-Max 100 octane or to Aral for Ultimate 102 octane unleaded fuel.





I did notice that the Germans are now paying more for their fuel. This doesn't effect us Americans - bc we pay thru the Esso card and pay US based fuel prices. We still pay three different prices for all three fuel grades (E10, Super and SuperPlus + Diesel)



But now for the Germs - the E10 is their cheapest choice (at the old super fuel price too! They raised there fuel prices! lol) and now, Super and SuperPlus are the SAME (higher) price! IF I was a German and paying the same price for Super vs SuperPlus... I would pump SuperPlus!!! Thats a no brainer. Then you start to conside the damage that ethanol gas may cause to your fuel injection system - and you have to be down right stupid not to pump SuperPlus fuel!





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      02-10-2011, 12:13 PM   #3
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If I may...

Needless to say that the States have this in all pumps, all grades. 50k miles and I never had an issue.

I think it's been asked before but is there any evidence to whether ethanol is known to cause any failures. I don't think there's anything to be concerned about.
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      02-11-2011, 03:50 AM   #4
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Here's some stuff that our command here in Germany sent us to read so everyone had an idea of the pro's and con's of ethanol in the fuel...

http://www.fuel-testers.com/ethanol_...ecautions.html

I know some have complained and others have posted about some damage to injectors and the such but no hard evidence to support. After I read the page, I started wondering myself because my 2003 Suzuki XL-7's gas mileage had gone drastically down and I was wondering what was wrong since I put Super unleaded into it.

To give you an example, from where i'm at now in Vilseck Germany to Kaiserslautern Germany its about 220-240 miles. I would normally make it there with about over a 1/4 to 1/2 tank of gas driving at about 75-85 MPH. Now I have to stop and refuel before getting there and all my filters and maintenace are up to date. Once I can drain the gas out of the Suzuki I will fill up with Sp and see if there is a difference.
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      02-12-2011, 10:12 AM   #5
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This totally sucks

FYI for anyone having to come over to the Grafenwoehr/Vilseck Area.

The Esso Gas station located across the Main Gate at Graf and the Esso located in Vilseck have both converted over adn ARE NOT offering Super Plus anymore. You either get Super 5% or Super E10.

Right now, if you want to fill up SuperPlus in this area, you will have to find a station that "might" still carry SuperPlus and flake it out of your pocket.
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      02-15-2011, 03:50 AM   #6
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New info that came out of Finland regarding E5 and E10 ethanol based fuel and what cars can use it..

http://p4_e10.s3.amazonaws.com/files...05_10_2010.pdf

I also spoke with Klaus Peter Becker of Schaefer Clubsport located in Kaiserslautern. He used to be the owner of Euler BMW back in the day and now has a very successful performance shop there. He stated to me that he does not recommend E10 in cars with the capability of high boost applications such as our cars but there is also an uncertainty with the fuel overall as no one knows how it will adversely affect those cars. I am going to be talking to BMW today and see what they tell me since in their manual they recommend the use of "Premium Gasoline".
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      02-16-2011, 04:34 PM   #7
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Exclamation News from AAFES........(long reading)

Sooooooo..........today I got to the point that I really had the bug to find out the deal regarding the E5/E10 fuel with Esso and AAFES. In a memo that is "sorta" being lightly circulated (my .02) I was reading and found a POC if anyone had questions regarding the whole fuel thing. The persons name is LT COL(AF) David Correll. He is the Deputy Commander Exchange-Europe/SWA Mainz-Kastel Station.

So I sent him an email as a concerned purchaser and also wondering what was going to happen with Superplus fuel on military installations and if there was going to be a message as to what installations would be carrying once the change goes in effect, which it is now. I also stated to him that around some installations like Graf/Vilseck, and one part of Heidelberg (B535 heading to Patton Bks) that those Esso Gas stations had already converted to E5/E10 gasoline and did no longer offer Superplus fuel. I also told him alot of people were concerned that they did not know what fuel would be offered on their installations.

I got a response back in less than 15 minutes. He stated to me that AAFES WILL continue to provide Superplus on all installations with exception of Bamberg/Hohenfels in the Bavaria Area (Graf/Vilseck/Katterbach/Illesheim/Schweinfurt) will continue to provide Superplus fuel. Also he stated that if any other installation that offered Superplus will still do. He also liked my point of maybe being able to provide to all consumers a notification Germany Wide as to what fuels will be available where so the public is aware. He was surprised though that the small Esso gas stations in my area eliminated Superplus. He passed the info about that to a Ms. Ruth Wagner, AAFES ESSO liaison.

She called me on the phone and I explained to her what they were offering at the Esso stations in this area. She told me that due to the new German law about the E10 all stations in Europe have to have it available. In 2 years the same law is going to change to the effect that Superplus will come back BUT, Super E5 will be eliminated. Also something I did not know was that supposedly, AAFES was already providing SuperE5 in the Super unleaded pumps on AAFES installations.

Ms. Wagner also reassured me that SuperPlus WILL STILL be offered on AAFES gas stations that carry it.

We'll see.............

Nick
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      02-27-2011, 01:58 PM   #8
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Hi Guys,

Today I stopped by my local BMW Zentrum and asked my guys there about E10. They were nice enough to give me a document that BMW has put out to all the German dealers.

Basically any BMW produced after 2000 M.Y. it is ok to run E10 in it. But the car will perform better with Super (E05) or with SuperPlus.

My guy there said I could try/test the E10 fuel - but most likely I would notice less performance and less fuel economy with E10. He said it is better to run SuperPlus - but that is up to the owner/driver. The car CAN run on E10. But in the end of our converstation... he said its a performance car and it is better to feed it SuperPlus. Just what I thought going in. So... I will stick with SuperPlus 98 in my car!


Here is the internal BMW document. I hope you can read it. (its in German!) Basically all the BMW models listed in the box bellow CAN NOT use E10 fuel and MUST run SuperPlus!!!




and here is a clickable link for a larger picture/file...




for more info(& input/photos)... follow the the same thread over at 1addicts...

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=485903



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      03-02-2011, 12:47 PM   #9
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Appreciate this thread and all the leg work that went into it! Good info for sure.
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      03-07-2011, 03:52 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsabor67
WOW!!!! that is a BIIIIG reversal for them. I had also spoken to the Safety Officer here where I work and he also told me about the oil thing......AND, about a report that BMW had made statements that the E10 fuel can cause damage to some of their Aluminum based engines.

That is scary because if more car manufacturers come out and say that their cars cannot support the fuel based on a model year around 2007-2008 and above, there will really be a big stink.




Looks like somone from BMW was miss quoted by the German TV press. BMW put out a new statement today - reaserting its position that E10 is safe to use in thier (2000 M.Y. & later) cars.

I personally will not use it. But here is todays press release. I also attached the rpess release and also a English version of the LIST of BW cars that CAN NOT use E10.


Dackel



from BMW AG's press website...

BMW backs the introduction of Super E10 fuel in Germany and Europe.
07.03.2011
Press Release

BMW supports the introduction of Super E10 fuel in Germany and Europe. This is also in accordance with the decision made following the legislative procedure involving BMW and the motor industry.
There have been no changes to the technical assessments which were made for Europe and Germany at the time.
The statements made by Mr Brüner on the matter of E10 use in BMW vehicles expressly did not refer to countries with fuel standards such as those applicable in the EU, but to countries with clearly inferior fuel grades.
In the light of current developments, this was confirmed tonight by Dr Klaus Draeger, Member of the Board of Management BMW AG, Development.
“Contrary to current media reports which state otherwise, we affirm our declaration that E10 fuels can be safely used in all BMW passenger car models from any production year.
A small number of older BMW vehicles require Super Plus RON 98 to reduce knock. Irrespective of ethanol content, these vehicles are therefore not suited for Super fuel. The relevant list of these vehicles was already published by the ADAC on March 1st this year.
All oil-change intervals as prescribed by us remain unchanged, irrespective of the use of E10 fuel.”
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