E90Post
 


Evolve Automotive
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > Regional Forums > UK > UK Off-Topic Discussions > F1 in 2011 new rules



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-13-2011, 08:48 AM   #1
Gibbo
Colonel
 
Gibbo's Avatar
 
Drives: Golf Ed35
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South East

Posts: 2,292
iTrader: (0)

F1 in 2011 new rules

It's the last week of testing at Barcelona before racing begins in 2 weeks time in Melborne. For 2011 we have a few big changes coming in.

Pirelli Tyres
Kers system
Movable rear wing

Tyres no big issue and all teams will have spent time working with the new manafacture. May have a different wear rate which could bring in new race tactics but no issue.

The other 2 ideas, kers, I never liked this a couple of years ago and thought it was naff and scrapped for that reason. Don't understand why its back and from memory only Mclaren got it to work in any useful way.

Movable rear wing and then a load of rules of when, where and how long you can use it. I may eat my words but what a load of rubbish and I am sure a handful of races will be decided on a steward decision based on if the wing and the kers were used at the right time. At the same time giving Brundle and his cronies endles opportunities to waffle on about the decision.

Last year was one of the best seasons in ages, close racing, team mates trying to outdo each other and a good ending to the season with a group of drivers in contention. Why change the formula it feels a bit dumbed down and I would like it kept simple without the gimmiks.

Good news it's finally in HD
__________________
Golf Ed35 Black with - Black Leather

Last edited by Gibbo; 03-13-2011 at 09:06 AM.
Gibbo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-13-2011, 08:51 AM   #2
- Paul -
Major General
 
- Paul -'s Avatar
 
Drives: see above.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Yorkshire, UK

Posts: 7,271
iTrader: (5)

Garage List
2005 320D SE  [5.00]
2005 645  [4.50]
I'm worried re the rear wings - what if the system fails - or driver forgets to put it back etc?
__________________
- Paul - is offline   England
0
Reply With Quote
      03-13-2011, 10:55 AM   #3
effone
Private First Class
 
Drives: 335d m sport
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: bedfordshire

Posts: 125
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by - Paul - View Post
I'm worried re the rear wings - what if the system fails - or driver forgets to put it back etc?
well, as i've just spent 4 weeks getting ours to work...

they are opened by a hydraulic actuator, and also have a position sensor that can be seen via the live telemetry.

they have to open and close within a certain time otherwise an error will be flagged up (both for the FIA and us) - therefore we'll know straight away if something is going wrong.

if the ram fails (i.e no hydraulics) all that will happen is the wing will remain open - but the element won't fall out or anything like that...

it is up to the driver to open the wing, but it closes automatically under brake pressure, or if the throttle is lifted - so they only have to press the button once and then the software takes over !! just FYI, an LED comes on the dashboard to indicate that the wing can be used, again this is down to closely controlled FIA limits.

overtaking will be and always is difficult due to the aero on our cars, but atleast the chaps are trying something to try and liven things up a bit - it may not work out but if it doesn't be sure that more things will be put in place...

anyway, i could go on...

ian b
effone is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-13-2011, 11:39 AM   #4
- Paul -
Major General
 
- Paul -'s Avatar
 
Drives: see above.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Yorkshire, UK

Posts: 7,271
iTrader: (5)

Garage List
2005 320D SE  [5.00]
2005 645  [4.50]
Always good to hear the inside story - thanks for the info!
__________________
- Paul - is offline   England
0
Reply With Quote
      03-13-2011, 12:50 PM   #5
MEGA
Dieseasal
 
MEGA's Avatar
 
Drives: LCI E92 335d M-Sport
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Harrow, London

Posts: 6,838
iTrader: (2)

Send a message via MSN to MEGA
Thats great info ian cheers for posting!
__________________
Previously: 2003 Peugeot 206 1.6 8v | 2006 E90 320d M-Sport, 19" BBS CH, Full Ice-cold JL audio install, August 2010 Total BMW 6 page feature car. | 2003 Nissan 350Z GT Coupe 286BHP
Now:2010 E92 LCI 335d M-Sport
MEGA is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      03-13-2011, 01:08 PM   #6
effone
Private First Class
 
Drives: 335d m sport
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: bedfordshire

Posts: 125
iTrader: (0)

no worries gents...

FYI the wing goes from open to closed in 0.1 of a second...

i'd show some data on here... but i like my job too much !!

ian b
effone is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-13-2011, 01:27 PM   #7
RagingKileak
Brigadier General
 
Drives: Modified Alpine White E92 335i
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Yorkshire

Posts: 4,629
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by effone View Post
no worries gents...

FYI the wing goes from open to closed in 0.1 of a second...

i'd show some data on here... but i like my job too much !!

ian b
I must have missed your big reveal mate. Good to know there is yet another 'proper' link to racing on our humble board.

Matt
RagingKileak is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      03-13-2011, 01:49 PM   #8
briers
Ben
 
briers's Avatar
 
Drives: XFR
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Midlands,UK

Posts: 1,970
iTrader: (0)

Yes thanks for the info Ian. Lotus?

Really looking forward to this season. Don't think you can judge pace on pre-season testing but it certainly looks like a lot of the mid field teams are a lot closer to the pace.

I'm a bit sceptical of the tyres. It will be interesting how each cars and it's downforce handles the wear rates. I think it's going to dominate strategies again this year. As much as i hated the fuel tactics and multiple stops it did make it more interesting than last seasons no refuelling which made for 50 or 60 laps of pretty much the same order.

I'm going to enjoy these last few seasons of the frozen v8 dev before the 1.6 engines come into play. I assume turbo charged, maybe even turbo/supercharged. Which may make it interesting at least.
briers is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      03-13-2011, 01:53 PM   #9
sheps
Colonel
 
sheps's Avatar
 
Drives: C63 AMG
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Cambs, UK

Posts: 2,396
iTrader: (2)

Send a message via MSN to sheps
Anyone got any plans to go and see a GP this year?
I'm going to try and do Abu Dhabi again this year, had an amazing time last year.
__________________
Gone but not forgotten:
325i M Sport (E92), Black Sapphire, Coral Red Dakota, 19" 225's, Seat Heating, 6FL and de-badge

Replaced by 6.2 litres of AMG powered C class.
sheps is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      03-13-2011, 01:55 PM   #10
Gibbo
Colonel
 
Gibbo's Avatar
 
Drives: Golf Ed35
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South East

Posts: 2,292
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by effone View Post
if the ram fails (i.e no hydraulics) all that will happen is the wing will remain open - but the element won't fall out or anything like that...

it is up to the driver to open the wing, but it closes automatically under brake pressure, or if the throttle is lifted - so they only have to press the button once and then the software takes over !! just FYI, an LED comes on the dashboard to indicate that the wing can be used, again this is down to closely controlled FIA limits.

ian b

So what you are saying is if it jams open the car will have to drive until the next pitstop with a low downforce car. I guess this can than be partially rectified by adjusting a bit of wing at the stop, but basically be in a compromised car to the end of the race.

In terms of when it can be used are you saying the FIA are monitoring every car with electronic timing equipment. They send a signal to the team of when the driver can press the button shown by a green light in the car? That is clever techonology especially when there are back markers, cars running say 3 or 4 in a line and other variables in the race like laps when all the leaders are pitting for tyres.

This could be interesting in a situation where 2 cars are fighting a battle at the front with 2 cars about to be lapped also fighting it could end up in a right mess.
__________________
Golf Ed35 Black with - Black Leather
Gibbo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-13-2011, 02:12 PM   #11
spandeli
First Lieutenant
 
spandeli's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW E92 320D M Sport Auto
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cyprus

Posts: 370
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by effone View Post
no worries gents...

FYI the wing goes from open to closed in 0.1 of a second...

i'd show some data on here... but i like my job too much !!

ian b

Wait a sec, Ian where do you work.. In an F1 Team if im right? Soooo jelous ..
spandeli is offline   Cyprus
0
Reply With Quote
      03-13-2011, 03:39 PM   #12
effone
Private First Class
 
Drives: 335d m sport
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: bedfordshire

Posts: 125
iTrader: (0)

yup, team Lotus - i'm a systems engineer for Heikki K

couple of things -

if the rear wing fails you'll not be able to fix it in the pit stop - it's be a trip to the garage and a fair amount of time lost if it can be fixed. it's nowhere near as easy as it is to change the nose... it's quite simple how it works really... a solenoid is energised that allows a hydraulic ram to open, which opens up the main wing element. there is a mechanical restriction on movement, but no way of adjusting how much you want it to open (like we could on the front wing last year) our on car hydraulic systems run at around 200 bar, so any kind of failure means you're stopping pretty quickly...

and when you think our (as most other teams) hydraulics control the gearbox, steering, rear wing, diff and throttles... it's pretty important !!

all teams use a F1MS system (F1 marshalling system) on the car that transmits GPS and car data to the FIA and FOM (used for data on screen for tv (revs, speed, gear etc)) - it also receives data which can show a yellow light for an incident on track and a blue light to tell the driver to let a faster car past (so no excuses of not seeing marshalls flags !!) - it also receives an 'allowed' flag that lets you use the rear wing. if you don't have this you can press the wing button all you like but nothing will happen...!!! have a look at the cars... you'll see a reasonably tall antenna (taller than the others) with a small round ball... that's the antenna the F1MS uses (we use 5 in total !!)

as has been said, you're not really going to know where everyone is until after qualifying in oz. it's easy to get a good time with no ballast, low fuel and super soft tyres... but you don't learn much from that. pretty much all cars are built 'underweight' which means you can add ballast to help balance the weight distribution - this helps with tyre degredation and of course the way the car handles !!

cheers,

ian b
effone is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-13-2011, 04:50 PM   #13
Dr Dave
Zummerzet Zyder Drinker!
 
Dr Dave's Avatar
 
Drives: '06 330D Le Mans Blue
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Somerset

Posts: 5,541
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
Wonderful info, thanks effone
__________________
Dr Dave is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      03-13-2011, 05:57 PM   #14
effone
Private First Class
 
Drives: 335d m sport
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: bedfordshire

Posts: 125
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Dave View Post
Wonderful info, thanks effone
no problem doc...

i've worked in the btcc, wrc and f1 over the years... it's hard work and a huge sacrifice on your personal life... but it's very, very rewarding...

ian b
effone is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-14-2011, 02:19 PM   #15
Tunna_uk
Captain
 
Tunna_uk's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW 325i M sport
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Teesside UK

Posts: 793
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheps View Post
Anyone got any plans to go and see a GP this year?
I'm going to try and do Abu Dhabi again this year, had an amazing time last year.
I'm going to Spa this year. (Road trip)

Quote:
Originally Posted by effone View Post
no problem doc...

i've worked in the btcc, wrc and f1 over the years... it's hard work and a huge sacrifice on your personal life... but it's very, very rewarding...

ian b
Great reading and insight. Thanks
Tunna_uk is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-14-2011, 02:53 PM   #16
dxb335d
The Tarmac Terrorist
 
dxb335d's Avatar
 
Drives: E46 M3 CS
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: ''Fandango Towers''

Posts: 29,264
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
There was plenty of great action last year!!

Sheps I did post up about the German GP, it's at the Nurburgring so could sneak off for a few laps of the Nordeschliefe LOL!!
__________________
M3 gone .... But I now have a M3 CS
dxb335d is offline   England
0
Reply With Quote
      03-14-2011, 06:10 PM   #17
SteveC
Captain
 
Drives: M135i
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: North East

Posts: 859
iTrader: (1)

Formula 1

Like car racing with a rugby union rulebook. The whole show is defined by the rules rather than by the cars or drivers. I still watch it but the length of time it takes me to fall asleep has become a family joke. And the number of times I've switched off to do something useful when a silly rule changes the entire outcome of a race...like putting a driver 10 positions back on the grid because his gearbox fails. The FIA still have to wake up to the fact there's a driver's championship AND a constructors championship, so why penalize a driver for a construction error? On the whole, I find the whole show somewhat frustrating and farsical.
SteveC is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      03-16-2011, 03:02 AM   #18
effone
Private First Class
 
Drives: 335d m sport
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: bedfordshire

Posts: 125
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveC View Post
Like car racing with a rugby union rulebook. The whole show is defined by the rules rather than by the cars or drivers. I still watch it but the length of time it takes me to fall asleep has become a family joke. And the number of times I've switched off to do something useful when a silly rule changes the entire outcome of a race...like putting a driver 10 positions back on the grid because his gearbox fails. The FIA still have to wake up to the fact there's a driver's championship AND a constructors championship, so why penalize a driver for a construction error? On the whole, I find the whole show somewhat frustrating and farsical.
this year the gearbox will have to last 5 races, instead of last years 4. this helps save money - not so long ago you'd use around 4 gearboxes per car per race weekend. the cost of this little lot would make your nose bleed, not to mention the cost of shipping them all over the world...

by adding this rule, it makes the gearbox designers raise their game - and when you consider we can change gear in a blink of the eye these days and run a gearbox in one of the most harsh, volatile environments around and still make it last... well it says a lot about the pool of talent we have here in the UK...

for sure, f1 isn't as interesting to watch as say the BTCC, but that is motorsport purely for TV - the contact wouldn't be allowed in any other type of motor racing... of course you can't have this in F1...

i often wonder though... what is it F1 critics are looking for from a race...?? would they be just as happy to see a few pile ups as they would be to see a wheel to wheel overtake at 200mph ?? not really sure on that one...

have to say that before my time in f1, i didn't enjoy it as much as i do now... i think when you get a better appreciation of what is going on from an engineering side it makes you realise just how awesome these cars are...

i deal with the data side of things mainly in my role... and the speed of inputs and reaction from pretty much any driver i've seen is just awesome...

anyway... enjoy it... you'll miss it when they're racing remote controlled solar powered cars...

probably...

cheers,

ian b
effone is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-16-2011, 03:37 AM   #19
jonsteele
Old enough to know better!
 
jonsteele's Avatar
 
Drives: 320d M Sport, Le Mans Blue
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: In a pub, in the middle of nowhere!

Posts: 409
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheps View Post
Anyone got any plans to go and see a GP this year?
I'm going to try and do Abu Dhabi again this year, had an amazing time last year.
Going to the British GP - well I best be! She who must be obeyed got 2 tickets for her birthday, so there'll be trouble if I don't!

Tickets are for seats opposite the new pit lane, so looking forward to it (although not so much so with the traffic!).
__________________
Jon Steele
320d M Sport (E90)
Le Mans Blue/18" Alloys/Bi Xenons/Climate Screen/Black, Heated Dakota Leather/6 CD Changer with Dension 500/Power Mirrors/M3 Lip Spoiler/Gloss Black Grills/Through Load, Storage pack, Lumbar Support, Smokers Deletion
jonsteele is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      03-16-2011, 04:47 AM   #20
briers
Ben
 
briers's Avatar
 
Drives: XFR
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Midlands,UK

Posts: 1,970
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by effone View Post
you'll miss it when they're racing remote controlled solar powered cars...
I'm going to miss the v8's when they bring in the 1.6 engines in 2013.

I'm a huge F1 fan, have been since i was old enough to understand. Like most others here, the Senna years were my favourite, because it was exciting to watch. Just like Walter Rohrl rallying in the 70's and 80's.

Back then the cars were simple and a 1.5 second P1 was entirely possible right down to driver skill. Now it still takes an incompressible amount of bravery and ability to drive an F1 car competitively but technology and design are etching away to margins of driver skill. And to the viewer we see a much closer field and a lot less overtaking and drama. Now i feel a drivers ability to win is largely influenced by how good the teams technical director is.
briers is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      03-16-2011, 02:44 PM   #21
Dannyrado
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 335d m sport coupe
Join Date: May 2009
Location: N Wales

Posts: 416
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheps View Post
Anyone got any plans to go and see a GP this year?
I'm going to try and do Abu Dhabi again this year, had an amazing time last year.
Was in Singapore 2010, it was sensational. I'd love to go to a few this year but we have a bambino on the way, so that rather rules travelling the world out.

Maybe if i can get a cheap flight to Hungary or Monza maybe...

The noise the Mclaren makes on the downchange (Jenson's especially) is worth going to a race for alone. Made tears run down my face, now that's sad isn't it?!?
__________________
E46 M3 SMG titanium silver, with grey leather. 335d now gone. 2010 Golf estate bluemotion, spec'd up and not nearly as bad as it sounds. VW T5 kombi, with the life specked out of it.
Dannyrado is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-16-2011, 02:55 PM   #22
effone
Private First Class
 
Drives: 335d m sport
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: bedfordshire

Posts: 125
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyrado View Post
Was in Singapore 2010, it was sensational. I'd love to go to a few this year but we have a bambino on the way, so that rather rules travelling the world out.

Maybe if i can get a cheap flight to Hungary or Monza maybe...

The noise the Mclaren makes on the downchange (Jenson's especially) is worth going to a race for alone. Made tears run down my face, now that's sad isn't it?!?
hungary wins for the social life in the evening... monza is great for history and cheap pizza but not much else going on...

if you can only do one... i'd choose hungary every time...

as for singapore... it didn't end very well for my driver...



ian b
effone is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:04 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST