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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > ER oil cooler install



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      03-14-2011, 09:56 PM   #23
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What oil cooler cores are those?
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      03-14-2011, 09:57 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by secretsquirrel View Post
ER = AR?
No, it is Evolution Racewerks. AR oil cooler runs in parallel.
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      03-14-2011, 10:21 PM   #25
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ER runs parallel also. Keeps temps down big time! Daily driving around 230-240. At track no higher than 260.
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      03-15-2011, 12:10 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple All Sectors View Post
ER runs parallel also. Keeps temps down big time! Daily driving around 230-240. At track no higher than 260.
OP says "in series." Also note on AN fitting adapter picture there is only a place for one set of hoses.
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      03-15-2011, 10:18 AM   #27
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First of all OP, congrats on the oil coolers. My only concern is that they don't both block air flow to the brakes, and also that you don't have any oil pressure issues.
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      03-15-2011, 10:54 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 View Post
First of all OP, congrats on the oil coolers. My only concern is that they don't both block air flow to the brakes, and also that you don't have any oil pressure issues.
I personally think the brake air ducts are useless, especially with aftermarket wheels. Just my opinion, but removing the brake ducts is a non-issue. ER has been racing cars for a long time and they know their stuff.
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      03-15-2011, 11:14 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS View Post
I personally think the brake air ducts are useless, especially with aftermarket wheels. Just my opinion, but removing the brake ducts is a non-issue. ER has been racing cars for a long time and they know their stuff.
Its best to form opinions after looking at some facts:

http://www.caranddriver.com/features..._3a12.0_page_8

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...ng_lap-feature

The driver in the car walks with a limp and a cane today.
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      03-15-2011, 11:41 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 View Post
Its best to form opinions after looking at some facts:

http://www.caranddriver.com/features..._3a12.0_page_8

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...ng_lap-feature

The driver in the car walks with a limp and a cane today.
There was more then air inadequacies though...

It mentions many times over that the brake pad compound was the culrpit as it was a low noise low dust pad not made for tracking.

Not against brake ducts but you could have brake ducts the size of rhode island here, the flaw was the pads too.

Quote:
Typically, a sporty car can endure 30 or 40 stops in this fashion, but after seven strong panic stops, the base Akebono pads began to give way, which wasn’t surprising given our Lightning Lap experience. Stopping distances from 100 mph worsened from about 325 feet to nearly 500, a level the Z maintained through cycles two and three. By the end of the fourth cycle (or 20 stops), braking distances stretched to more than 1000 feet, pedal travel increased by almost four inches, and even goading the pedal with 150 pounds of force couldn’t produce 0.5 g of deceleration. Although the brake-pad fade was dramatic, at least it happened somewhat gradually, far more so than during our wild ride at the Virginia track.

These pads fall into the “non-asbestos organic,” or NAO, category found on most street cars, and those organic materials simply can’t deal with racetrack levels of heat. The base Z’s pads melted away—no exaggeration—to practically nothing during our 10 minutes of flogging, depositing their material around the rotor in what at first glance appeared to be significant scoring.
Fluid was also mentioned later in the article as well.

Quote:
Our suspicion is that Nissan got a bit greedy in its quest for today’s all-important fuel-economy numbers and boosted the Z’s aerodynamics a little too far by cutting back on the amount of air directed through the wheel wells to cool the brakes. Key takeaway: If you intend to track a Z, don’t use the base pads, upgrade the brake fluid, and be sure to install brake-cooling ducts.
At the very end it does finally mention inadequate air flow to the brakes but not before attacking the other flaws in the setup.

Last edited by Jeff@TopGearSolutions; 03-15-2011 at 11:48 AM.
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      03-15-2011, 03:08 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jzchen View Post
OP says "in series." Also note on AN fitting adapter picture there is only a place for one set of hoses.
Yes, I installed it, and there are only hoses for a series setup. Im not sure which cooler the oil goes to first but there is a hose that connects the left to the right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 View Post
First of all OP, congrats on the oil coolers. My only concern is that they don't both block air flow to the brakes, and also that you don't have any oil pressure issues.
I too hope oil pressure is fine. So far so good...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS View Post
I personally think the brake air ducts are useless, especially with aftermarket wheels. Just my opinion, but removing the brake ducts is a non-issue. ER has been racing cars for a long time and they know their stuff.
I agree. I think that for ducts to be effective, they need to aim the air to the back of the rotor and not to the front of the tire where they will have trouble reaching the brakes. If there really is noticeable difference then i will get fading on track but since i have a nice bbk... i doubt ill get there unless i become much much faster..
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      03-15-2011, 03:09 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
What oil cooler cores are those?
these are not setrap coolers. They were made by ER since the setraps did not have one in the right size.
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      03-15-2011, 04:02 PM   #33
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i always thought my car ran hot.

typically, i can see 3 lines passed the middle (210 i think).

is that bad !?!?
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      03-15-2011, 05:15 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jzchen View Post
OP says "in series." Also note on AN fitting adapter picture there is only a place for one set of hoses.
u loop the oil cooler.
oil out goes to oil cooler number 1 then
runs across to oil cooler number 2 then
returns to engine.

stack'n the oil coolers
like having two people blow down ur
hot soup. just 1 at a time and not
at the same time. that would be a threesome.
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      03-15-2011, 05:22 PM   #35
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There would be a greater benefit in a thermostat option. Something like 200-210 would be greatly beneficial.
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      03-15-2011, 05:27 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPSlick View Post
There would be a greater benefit in a thermostat option. Something like 200-210 would be greatly beneficial.
Actually i dont see any benefit from running a lower thermostat. I think the oil temps should run at around 225-235 for daily driving. All that matters is that you warm up the oil as fast as stock and dont go much higher than 250 on track.
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      03-15-2011, 05:28 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zsapphire7 View Post
Actually i dont see any benefit from running a lower thermostat. I think the oil temps should run at around 225-235 for daily driving. All that matters is that you warm up the oil as fast as stock and dont go much higher than 250 on track.
Most cars ran a max oil temp of 200-215 believe it or not. The problem with a thermostat kicking on so late is it has to work over-time to keep the temps down.

While starting earlier would lessen the opportunity of exceeding 250+.

If I had it my way I would make my temps never exceed 215 as that is where oil viscosity is rated.
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      03-15-2011, 05:43 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPSlick View Post
Most cars ran a max oil temp of 200-215 believe it or not. The problem with a thermostat kicking on so late is it has to work over-time to keep the temps down.

While starting earlier would lessen the opportunity of exceeding 250+.

If I had it my way I would make my temps never exceed 215 as that is where oil viscosity is rated.
Having the oilcoolers kick in earlier does not lessen the opportunity of temps exceeding 250+. If youre in a situation where youre producing more heat that you can remove from the system, it doesnt matter if u start removing heat earlier, you will overheat...
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      03-15-2011, 05:58 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPSlick View Post
There was more then air inadequacies though...

It mentions many times over that the brake pad compound was the culrpit as it was a low noise low dust pad not made for tracking.

Not against brake ducts but you could have brake ducts the size of rhode island here, the flaw was the pads too.



Fluid was also mentioned later in the article as well.


At the very end it does finally mention inadequate air flow to the brakes but not before attacking the other flaws in the setup.
looking at the excerpts form the article -- looks like youre on target --

shoddy pads -- non-premium brake fluid are contributors -- he states that you should have these things --

but for a moment (yeah i know its semantics) -- look at the last line of the paragraph... "and be sure to install brake-cooling ducts."

lots of folks in the past have given little thought to brake cooling, especially when modding. go fast cars need stop fast brakes-- i truly understand the need to keep the engine cool and running well, it would be ideal if aftermarket vendors took all the factors in hand while producing new components (specifically speed parts).

remember the old brake dust covers for the rotors/pads = 'cause everyone tires of cleaning their wheels --- those were banned for use by BMW and if someone saw fit to use them and expect the car to perform the same way it was intitially designed -- there were in for a rude awakening.

tracking a totally stock car can overwhelm the brakes -- just think when you add another 50-75-100hp ... neat fat tires will look hot, but not being to reign the car in with the binders (rotors red hot and pads glazed like a Winchell donut) at 85mph and heading for a decreasing radius sweeper can be a little touchy !!
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      03-15-2011, 06:43 PM   #40
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The oil goes from cooler 1 to cooler 2 and then back to the system. Our testing has shown this is considerably more efficient than running 2 oil coolers separately.

Brake ducts are awesome...when they look like this: that go to the back of the rotor/caliper. Brake ducts that shoot at your front tires are useless (factory stuff).

As for lower thermostats...it's a band aid fix. Street cars it's fine as typical use does not tax the system. However, when racing different story. Let's say your starting temp is 210 vs 230. It's still going to hit whatever peak heat temp you're going to reach as thermostats don't cool anything. Oil temps when at WOT climb really fast. 20degree starting temp is not gonna make a difference. Maybe 100-200 feet longer before you hit limp mode
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      03-15-2011, 06:46 PM   #41
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nice work
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      03-15-2011, 08:50 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evolution Racewerks View Post
Brake ducts that shoot at your front tires are useless (factory stuff).
By your logic, I wonder why BMW engineers left room for the brake ducts when fabricating the OEM oil coolers. Didn't they know they could get more cooling, by making them bigger?
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      03-16-2011, 01:17 AM   #43
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Well the thing is, on a stock car used for daily driving, I don't think oil cooling is a major problem. Keep in mind, this is the same BMW that on the first year 335i (2006) came with NO oil coolers. They quickly changed that didn't they?

On cars pushing more boost, this definitely becomes a problem. Now, actually tracking the car? BIG problem. The first year we started racing our 135i was probably the worse year I've ever experience racing. Imagine spends hundreds/thousands of $ to go race and not even being able to make a single lap under full power. That was our 2008 season. Every race weekend I would pray for cold weather. Every race weekend I would pull my hair out trying to figure out why and how to get the car to even make 1 lap. We finally figured out the problem and haven't had limp mode issues since. We were finally able to really dial in our car (since now we can actually make a lap) and compete. 2010 showed as we had podium finishes at every single event we went to. All this stemmed from oil coolers

As for brake ducting. I don't know why BMW bothered with what they did. Car manufacturers do puzzling things sometimes. If they were perfect, they would fix the damn HPFP issue on these cars!

What would have been more effective would be scoops behind the brake dust shield much like the Evos do. That in conjunction with ducts from the front would actually do something. The main thing that needs cooling are the rotors and calipers. Being that both sit inside the wheel (that turns), air needs to be directed at them. No vent at the front of the tire is going to be effective as first the wheel is in the way and second, the spinning tire causes a wall of air pressure.


We've tossed those factory ducts since the very beginning in 2008 and never looked back. Still running the same rotors on the car since 2008. I'm pretty sure we're harder on our brakes than 99% of street car out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 View Post
By your logic, I wonder why BMW engineers left room for the brake ducts when fabricating the OEM oil coolers. Didn't they know they could get more cooling, by making them bigger?
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      03-16-2011, 04:17 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 View Post
Its best to form opinions after looking at some facts:

http://www.caranddriver.com/features..._3a12.0_page_8

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...ng_lap-feature

The driver in the car walks with a limp and a cane today.
You already posted this same thing in another thread. These were different cars that have different setups. I know other tunes have measured brake temps to see if the ducts do anything, and the consensus is very little. I respect your opinion, but I could creless what happened on a Nissan.
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