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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > 2008 Sedan JB4/Meth Vbox Test Results



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      03-20-2011, 08:09 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod182 View Post
Thanks guys.

Here is the Vbox reading on the 11.81/119.28 run
Vbox read 11.8 at 120.3

So every run at Famoso was 1mph less than the Vbox reading
Every run at Sacramento was over 2.5mph faster than the Vbox reading.
My runs down at sea level were a good 2mph faster than the 1000+ DA at Famoso.

So a net difference of approx 5mph! Between the 2 tracks.
So 119.28 is a good mph, and may be the fastest trap at Famoso recorded by a 335i.

Also, by looking at dragtimes, its quite peculiar that EVERY single run in the top 10 was run at Sacramento! Good DA, and faster clocks when the record runs were done. I would like to be the first 335i to hit 120 at Famoso.

I would also like to see where the Sacramento timing equipment is now as far as accuracy. Word is that they fixed it. Need someone to go out there with a Vbox. The 830 mile drive is kind of far, but I may end up going again sometime to check.
Yours included!

I thought Terry cracked 122 mph at Famoso? Also your tune-only record was done at Sac. Your 119 mph trap is more like 116 mph.
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      03-20-2011, 10:21 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themyst View Post
Yours included!

I thought Terry cracked 122 mph at Famoso? Also your tune-only record was done at Sac. Your 119 mph trap is more like 116 mph.
Absolutely, all the runs done from the beginning of last year (2010) till sometime a few months ago were off. However, my 119mph trap (tune only record) was set the year before, April 11th, 2009. It was legit. If I recall, the Vbox read about .60 mph faster than the time slip back then. In fact, I will try and find the Vbox screen shot, bet you it read 120mph. Besides, to do a 11.78 with almost a 1.8 60's time, will generally take better than a 116mph trap speed.

That same day I also ran at 11.87 with a pathetic 1.92 60' time. Trap speed on that one was 120.9 mph (would have been 123.5mph if ran same time in 2010. By far the fastest engine tune only record.

Last visit to Famoso, Terry had one high boost run just over 120mph as he forgot to bring his tuning resources for the JB4. But again, I am comparing against 335i BMWs, not lightened 135i BMWs.

On my 132.7 mph trap run at Sac, the Vbox read around 129.8 mph I believe. But on the other hand, I put in a new bottle and did a few 133mph Vbox runs. So fully 3mph faster than my run at Sacramento. I think you will find a car that can do a 6.9x 60-130 run is going to be running 130mph traps. Cars that run low 7's (ZR1, Carrera GT, Enzo, are all 600+HP, 130mph trap cars)

Hopefully more members can record some Vbox times at their local tracks.
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      03-20-2011, 10:37 PM   #25
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Thanks! Hotrod182. Pretty comprehensive gathering of numbers.
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      03-20-2011, 11:18 PM   #26
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Okay, here you go.

January 31st, 2009 Sacramento:
12.357 at 116.849 Timeslip
12.4 at 117.4 Vbox

April 11th, 2009 Sacramento (tune only record day) high trap 120.916
12.032 at 119.32 Timeslip
12.1 at 119.9 Vbox

So the Vbox reads about .5mph to .60 faster than the time slip. (so only a .50mph advantage over Famoso instead of 3.5mph)

Now lets look at Sacramento when the traps were optimistic by over 2.5 mph:

January 9th, 2010 Sacramento:

11.911 at 124.069 time slip
11.9 at 121.3 Vbox

12.260 at 122.808 time slip
12.3 at 120.0 Vbox

(so even in 1000ft+ DA, my 120.3 mph Vbox at Famoso would have been 123mph+ at Sac, instead of 119.2mph!, even on stock DP/Exhaust/Intercooler/Moderate boost/etc)

March 13th, 2010 Sacramento
12.316 at 123.727 time slip
12.4 at 121.2 Vbox


FYI. The vbox should read a little faster on trap speed since it calculates speed right AT the finish line. The ET is always right on, or a little conservative. Its rarely the 60' or ET is better on the Vbox than the actual timeslip.

After the first run and seeing the track/vbox difference, I always know what my timeslip is going to say before I get it from the booth.
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      03-20-2011, 11:48 PM   #27
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And here are some comparison runs from last weekend at Famoso:

11.967 at 119.01 time slip
12.0 at 120.0 Vbox

11.936 at 118.47 time slip
11.9 at 119.4 Vbox

11.819 at 119.28 Time slip
11.8 at 120.3 Vbox

11.925 at 118.22 time slip
11.9 at 119.2 Vbox


So you can see the traps are 1mph less than the Vbox instead of 2.5mph faster (3.5mph net from the timing equipment alone). And then when coming back and running at sea level, my traps immediately went up almost another 2mph on the Vbox)
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60-130mph: 6.95 seconds stock turbo WR (.16% slope)

Last edited by hotrod182; 03-20-2011 at 11:55 PM.
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      03-21-2011, 08:07 AM   #28
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Wow... thanks man, that is SMOKIN !

What does a stock M3 do in the 1/4 compared to your car? - just as a bench mark.
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      03-21-2011, 08:16 AM   #29
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Quote:
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Wow... thanks man, that is SMOKIN !

What does a stock M3 do in the 1/4 compared to your car? - just as a bench mark.
12.5-12.7 at 111-114 qtr mile.
0-60 rating is 4.6-4.8 seconds for a stock M3.
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      03-21-2011, 10:38 AM   #30
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Again, fully stock down pipes/intercooler/exhaust

Hotrod....how about intake?

Are you on the stock box or DCI's.
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      03-21-2011, 02:15 PM   #31
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Quote:
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Hotrod....how about intake

Are you on the stock box or DCI's.
I am running BMS DCI.
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      03-21-2011, 02:20 PM   #32
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Hotrod, you ever find any significant difference in power or times with the DCI?

Tune only? And with meth?

I'm on the fence right now cause I went back to stock intake and felt nothing on the butt dyno but my testing is not as extensive as you so I figured you already crossed the DCI off the list by now if it was good or bad.
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      03-21-2011, 02:31 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPSlick View Post
Hotrod, you ever find any significant difference in power or times with the DCI?

Tune only? And with meth?

I'm on the fence right now cause I went back to stock intake and felt nothing on the butt dyno but my testing is not as extensive as you so I figured you already crossed the DCI off the list by now if it was good or bad.
Really JP? you don't feel the intake? I did at higher RPMs... say 5k and above. It wasn't earth shattering for sure, but I did feel it.

The sound is better with the DCI - meaner....
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      03-21-2011, 02:47 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPSlick View Post
Hotrod, you ever find any significant difference in power or times with the DCI?

Tune only? And with meth?

I'm on the fence right now cause I went back to stock intake and felt nothing on the butt dyno but my testing is not as extensive as you so I figured you already crossed the DCI off the list by now if it was good or bad.
Hey JP.....I felt no.improvement till I got the meth..started pushing higher boost....in the 117mph + trap range it definitely made a difference in my car.
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      03-21-2011, 03:23 PM   #35
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What do you usually break boost at when launching in 2nd...?

I found 2600+rpm launches almost put me in the wall a few times on rfts...
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      03-21-2011, 03:23 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFish View Post
Really JP? you don't feel the intake? I did at higher RPMs... say 5k and above. It wasn't earth shattering for sure, but I did feel it.

The sound is better with the DCI - meaner....
I've had the DCI for 2 years. I went back to stock and didnt notice any difference.

Just better throttle response if anything going back to stock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod182 View Post
Hey JP.....I felt no.improvement till I got the meth..started pushing higher boost....in the 117mph + trap range it definitely made a difference in my car.
Interesting. Any data though?

Reason I dont even like the DCI is everytime i go back to stock for dealer visits its impossible to get the stock intake on because the piping shrinks. So I said screw it and left the stock one on this time around.

I also have the scoops and I feel pressurizing the intake box might be beneficial? Its all speculation of course without real data.

I dont trust dyno graphs because they arent realistic with an open hood and fans etc.
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      03-21-2011, 06:19 PM   #37
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What do you usually break boost at when launching in 2nd...?

I found 2600+rpm launches almost put me in the wall a few times on rfts...
I usually launch between 2000-2500, but not with too much throttle initially, other wise wheel spin will ruin your times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPSlick View Post
I've had the DCI for 2 years. I went back to stock and didnt notice any difference.

Just better throttle response if anything going back to stock.



Interesting. Any data though?

Reason I dont even like the DCI is everytime i go back to stock for dealer visits its impossible to get the stock intake on because the piping shrinks. So I said screw it and left the stock one on this time around.

I also have the scoops and I feel pressurizing the intake box might be beneficial? Its all speculation of course without real data.

I dont trust dyno graphs because they arent realistic with an open hood and fans etc.
I didn't notice any change down below. Yes the throttle response down low, around town etc, is probably better with the stock airbox. But above 117mph, (Meth/higher boost), the stock airbox becomes more restrictive. I might be trapping 116.3 mph, and then with the DCI, it would run 117mph. So not a huge difference to some, but every bit counts if you are going to the track. But yes, for everyday driving, and traps around 116mph or below, the stock airbox is not a problem.
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      03-21-2011, 07:52 PM   #38
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Amazing how 15psi falling to 13.5ish with crap ignition traps 119 mph....
Thats pretty much exactly what my cobb stage 1 tune looks like. So safe to say cobb stage 1 should trap 119? Boost is the same, timing is the same.
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      03-21-2011, 08:04 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod182 View Post
I usually launch between 2000-2500, but not with too much throttle initially, other wise wheel spin will ruin your times.



I didn't notice any change down below. Yes the throttle response down low, around town etc, is probably better with the stock airbox. But above 117mph, (Meth/higher boost), the stock airbox becomes more restrictive. I might be trapping 116.3 mph, and then with the DCI, it would run 117mph. So not a huge difference to some, but every bit counts if you are going to the track. But yes, for everyday driving, and traps around 116mph or below, the stock airbox is not a problem.
Sounds about right.

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Originally Posted by Clap135 View Post
Amazing how 15psi falling to 13.5ish with crap ignition traps 119 mph....
Thats pretty much exactly what my cobb stage 1 tune looks like. So safe to say cobb stage 1 should trap 119? Boost is the same, timing is the same.
Yea that was odd I would have expected more ignition on race gas with low boost.
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      03-21-2011, 08:41 PM   #40
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Amazing how 15psi falling to 13.5ish with crap ignition traps 119 mph....
Thats pretty much exactly what my cobb stage 1 tune looks like. So safe to say cobb stage 1 should trap 119? Boost is the same, timing is the same.
I don't know about the Cobb. It would be awesome if you could do some testing on a Vbox or visit a local dragstrip (with the Vbox), and post your timing graphs so we can check them out! Since your 135i is light to begin with, you should be able to do better than 119mph in 1000+ ft DA. And if you use nitrous, or course much faster speeds are possible.

Also what are you looking for in the ignition timing. Should it go higher than 15 degrees or so? Should it shoot up straight to 15 degrees right after the shift? So what effect do you predict the additional meth nozzle is going to make? Think there will be a improvement? What about power output?

Also, instead of a one gear dyno pull, please make about 6 back to back 0-130 runs so we can see how the timing changes. I would love to see some graphs soon!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPSlick View Post
Sounds about right.



Yea that was odd I would have expected more ignition on race gas with low boost.
Interestingly enough, race fuel didn't seem to help the traps or ignition timing much. But again, higher DA to consider also. Perhaps today I will be able to do back to back runs on the single CM10, and then open up the 2nd nozzle and do a couple more runs! I'm very curious if it will really help, or will the DME simply start adjusting the fuel/timing to its preferred limits?

Also, interestingly enough, since the track visit. I had all 6 injectors replaced. It seems that timing is smoother. I will try and post the graphs. Trap speed remained unchanged though, if not a tiny bit slower.
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      03-21-2011, 08:52 PM   #41
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I was being sarcastic. Here is why:

1. There is noway you are not maxing out ignition timing at that low of a boost level while using meth and/or race gas.
2. Ignition timing should almost never fall below 10 degrees, especially at that low psi and high octane
3. Last time out on the v5 I ran 18.5psi, meth and race gas and trapped 117-118mph (fbo in negative DA) and my ignition NEVER fell below 10. Either Cali is magic, or your logging feature is inaccurate.
4. You will not find another n54 with your mod list at that boost level along with that shit timing to even come close to 119mph.
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      03-21-2011, 08:56 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clap135 View Post
I was being sarcastic. Here is why:

1. There is noway you are not maxing out ignition timing at that low of a boost level while using meth and/or race gas.
2. Ignition timing should almost never fall below 10 degrees, especially at that low psi and high octane
3. Last time out on the v5 I ran 18.5psi, meth and race gas and trapped 117-118mph (fbo in negative DA) and my ignition NEVER fell below 10. Either Cali is magic, or your logging feature is inaccurate.
4. You will not find another n54 with your mod list at that boost level along with that shit timing to even come close to 119mph.
wash, rinse, and repeat

same shit different day

Hotrod what does your car weigh without you in it in your full race trim.
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      03-21-2011, 08:59 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clap135 View Post
I was being sarcastic. Here is why:

1. There is noway you are not maxing out ignition timing at that low of a boost level while using meth and/or race gas.
2. Ignition timing should almost never fall below 10 degrees.
3. Last time out on the v5 I ran 18.5psi, meth and race gas and trapped 117-118mph and my ignition NEVER fell below 10. Either Cali is magic, or your logging feature is inaccurate.
4. You will not find another n54 with your mod list and that boost level along wtiht hat shit timing to even come close to 119mph.
Can you post a comparable timing/boost graph? So right after a shift, it goes to 10+ degrees? See the thing about it, I don't even know if my stock map will do that! You did the logging on a full 1/4 mile or back to back 0-130 pulls?

So if my fuel is good, meth injection is working properly, why would my timing be so low? Because I am not CPS offsetting it?

Also, are you running stock DPs, Intercooler, Exhaust also?
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      03-21-2011, 09:02 PM   #44
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hey hotrod how are you liking the 335d? I want a x5 diesel.
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