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      03-08-2007, 06:34 PM   #1
ulises 335i
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question about higher octane gas?

i know this is a stupid question , but i wanted to know if i use 100 octane in my car (335i sedan) can it mess anything up?

my dad said i could mess up the engine or something.

(sorry if its a repost, i tryed searching)
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      03-08-2007, 06:41 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ulises 335i View Post
i know this is a stupid question , but i wanted to know if i use 100 octane in my car (335i sedan) can it mess anything up?

my dad said i could mess up the engine or something.

(sorry if its a repost, i tryed searching)
Unless you have a PROcede with a special 100 octane map, you will see little benefit in using quality gasoline rated above 93 or 94 octane. The additional octane helps to prevent knock but the factory computer has a limited ability to take advantage of the added octane. In the case of the PROcede, Shiv thought that the 100 octane might be good for an additional 20-30 horsepower.

However, this is assuming that you are buying the gas from a quality vendor in 100 octane, not using an octane booster.

A quality 100 octane gas will not hurt your car, only your pocketbook.
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      03-08-2007, 07:02 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ulises 335i View Post
i know this is a stupid question , but i wanted to know if i use 100 octane in my car (335i sedan) can it mess anything up?

my dad said i could mess up the engine or something.

(sorry if its a repost, i tryed searching)
ahah your dad is funny.

Depending on what gas you use right now. In cali we only get 91 octane so if we do use 100 octane (with procede or with out) we actualy do benefit from this and make more power. we actualy dont need 100 octane, we just dont have anything higher than 91 octane on pump.

Stock im not sure how much mroe power but you will make more, with procede the difference from 91 octane to 93 octane was 20whp and 25wtq...which is a lot of damn power.

the ECU will read up to 93 octane and adjust the settings according to the octane you are using.... anyhing after 93 isnt going to make power, however it will not hurt your car at all..... we use 100 octane in cali because that is the next best thing we can get after 91 octane...and its damn exspensive!
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      03-08-2007, 07:09 PM   #4
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thanks guys... by the way im i cali too... i know the best we have is 91 oct.
the reason im asking about the 100 oct. is because i found a gas station near my house....its 6$ a gallon!
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      03-08-2007, 07:30 PM   #5
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if you are in cali, stock or with procede...putting 100 octane will make more power than 91 octane.

if your not hurtin for money give it a try...
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      03-08-2007, 07:32 PM   #6
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There is a 76 station nearby (woodside road) that sells 100 octane for like $5.30. Not too much more than the 91 we get here. I filled my car up to to get a mixture of 93 octane. I have the procede, and I could feel a slight improvement. Now my tires spin easier from a standstill and seems to have more pull on the freeway. But thus far, the difference is quite marginal. I also brought along some empty containers and filled them up with 100 octane gas.
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      03-08-2007, 07:38 PM   #7
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about 1-2 gallons added in with a with the rest 91 will give you a full tank of about 93-94 octane.
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      03-08-2007, 07:49 PM   #8
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I live in Maryland and we only have 93, 89, and 87 ... I wish we had 100 cus gas is only like 2.50 a gallon for 93...
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      03-08-2007, 07:55 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrM View Post
Unless you have a PROcede with a special 100 octane map, you will see little benefit in using quality gasoline rated above 93 or 94 octane. The additional octane helps to prevent knock but the factory computer has a limited ability to take advantage of the added octane. In the case of the PROcede, Shiv thought that the 100 octane might be good for an additional 20-30 horsepower.

However, this is assuming that you are buying the gas from a quality vendor in 100 octane, not using an octane booster.

A quality 100 octane gas will not hurt your car, only your pocketbook.
+1

Octane rating rates the combustibility of the fuel or its resistance to ignition or its kindling point, etc. been called many other things. Lower octane fuels partially ignite during the compression stroke of the engine. As the piston moves up toward top dead center (position when the piston has fully compressed the fuel) the compressed fuel air mixture burns due to the heat generated from compression. Intuitively, the more fuel that is burned during compression, less there is to be ignited by the spark plug and consequently less to push the piston during the power stroke. Detonation or knocking occures when the shockwave produced in front of the piston (from buring fuel during compression) hits the shockwave produced by the explosion induced by the spark plug. Just prior to detonation, or when the two shockwaves form simultaneously, is the best point for performance and it is controlled by timing the spark to coincide with the shockwave ahead of the compressing piston. The engine must adjust the timing to account for poor quality fuels or altitude but not enough to take advantage of a 100 octane fuel. The factory computer is limited; I'd say upto about 95 octane. After that no beneficial ignition adjustment will be made by the car.

So by using high octane fuel, you decrease the fuel consumed during compression, and hence have more fuel to explode by spark. Upto a certain point, no matter how ignition resistant the fuel may be, the engine will never produce enough pressure to ignite it during compression, that point is about 95+- a few octane points.

Last edited by homerunball; 03-08-2007 at 08:14 PM.
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      03-08-2007, 10:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CEA 3 View Post
...In cali we only get 91 octane...we just dont have anything higher than 91 octane on pump...and its damn exspensive!
Not true...

I pump 100 octane from the pump in Newport Beach, California at a certain 76 station.

There are a couple actually; the best price was $6.20 per gallon at a station further north. I pay $7.99 per gallon...not bad, for a fill up; it's like a round of drinks, but it lasts me a week or two.

AND you do notice the difference with the 100 octane flowin'
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      03-08-2007, 10:18 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OC kid View Post
Not true...

I pump 100 octane from the pump in Newport Beach, California at a certain 76 station.

There are a couple actually; the best price was $6.20 per gallon at a station further north. I pay $7.99 per gallon...not bad, for a fill up; it's like a round of drinks, but it lasts me a week or two.

AND you do notice the difference with the 100 octane flowin'
Yes this I know....i can name about 10 76 stations off the top of my head that have 100 on pump.

i was saying we only have 91 and not 93
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      03-08-2007, 10:32 PM   #12
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Southern Californa:
There is a 76 Station in Agoura, Chesebro offramp with 100 octane.
Anyone know of any around Simi Valley, Valencia area?
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      03-08-2007, 10:41 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CEA 3 View Post
about 1-2 gallons added in with a with the rest 91 will give you a full tank of about 93-94 octane.
CEA, you'll need more than 1-2 gallons to make 93. Use this link below to see how much you need.

http://www.motorsportsracingfuels.co...alculator.html
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      03-08-2007, 10:57 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ulises 335i View Post
i know this is a stupid question , but i wanted to know if i use 100 octane in my car (335i sedan) can it mess anything up?

my dad said i could mess up the engine or something.

(sorry if its a repost, i tryed searching)
if your car is bone stock, you're wasting your money to pump 100 octane. it won't mess anything up except your wallet!
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      03-09-2007, 01:52 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod182 View Post
Southern Californa:
There is a 76 Station in Agoura, Chesebro offramp with 100 octane.
Anyone know of any around Simi Valley, Valencia area?
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      03-09-2007, 02:08 AM   #16
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my buddy has a 335i and he also has a gtechpro....with 91 oct. he averages a 4.9 0-60 and with 100 oct. mix (half tank of 91 oct...2 gallons 100 oct.)
he averages a 4.7 0-60

his car is bone stock
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      03-09-2007, 08:20 AM   #17
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Thats sick.... I had no idea the 335 was that fast!

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      03-09-2007, 10:25 AM   #18
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There is obvious differening opinions on this, but using 100 octane which is generally defined as racing fuel these days will not do much for you in everyday driving. However, if you plan to race it might help shave off a few seconds here and there.

here is a copy of links I have tracked down if you have an interest in fuels

www.toptiergas.com Tells you who has the best fuels and BMW does back this.

http://www.goestores.com/home.aspx?Merchant=highfuelsn For those of you who want high octane fuel and no one pumps it near you.

http://sunocoinc.com/site/Consumer/RaceFuels/ If you have a Sunoco in your state they have a locator to find a station with 100 Octane fuel which again they claim BMW has tested and approved for use in their engines.

I personally would be a little hesitant about using 100 Octane fual from Phillips 76, they do no have any information posted on their website about this fuel and I have not seen any recent information about their race fuels. I know they were the NASCAR gas for almost 30 yrs but they lost out to Sunoco recently.

Shell is another company with high Octane fuels but they all seem to be Lead based so they will not work on a BMW, I would worry about this too for 76.

As homerunball has pointed out, you need higher compression ratio to take advantage of the higher octane. What I have read 100 Octane needs 10 to 1 compression which I believe the 335i does in fact have. So the 335i could take full advantage of 100 Octane, if the ECU is and all the associated timing is set up correctly.

Last edited by Maestro; 03-09-2007 at 10:42 AM.
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      03-09-2007, 02:01 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ulises 335i View Post
my buddy has a 335i and he also has a gtechpro....with 91 oct. he averages a 4.9 0-60 and with 100 oct. mix (half tank of 91 oct...2 gallons 100 oct.)
he averages a 4.7 0-60

his car is bone stock

impossible...there's no way that a stock car will improve 2/10th of a second by using higher octane gas. most AT 335i's can do 4.8 consistently in stock trim (tons of post supporting this)...see Edumnds article. Also, when Edmunds tested the Procede 335i, it did 4.6 seconds 0-60mph. basically, procede reduced 0-60mph times by 2/10ths of a second which is what your buddy is claiming he did by simply using higher octane gas. that's simply not possible.
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      03-09-2007, 04:05 PM   #20
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It is becoming very obvious that some people have zero experience on using race gas at all.

Typically even with a mild mixture of race gas and even if you don't touch the boost a turbo car will still make significant gains. I typically gained 3mph average and shaved 2tenth of a second with mild mixtures of race gas on my turbo cars.

I took a 94 Dodge Stealth TT bone stock to the track and managed a 13.9@98, after I put only 3 gallons of 109oct to a 8 galons of 91oct I ended with a 13.7@102.4 mph

The 2 tenth of a second is very belieable. When you guys compare the Vishnu package tested by Edmunds website I strongly believe it was more of a traction and driver issue, that Vishnu pacakge should have put you deep into the 12's.

Race gas do help a lot. Here is a friend of mine with a Evo 9 and no map for race gas, he increased 64whp and 62lb/tq on a Mustang Dyno to all 4 wheels just by going from 91oct to pure 100oct and that is whitout a map for 100oct.

308 Hp and 327 TQ MD Pump
372 AWHP 389 AWTQ pure 100 octane

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      03-09-2007, 04:08 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maynardc View Post
if your car is bone stock, you're wasting your money to pump 100 octane. it won't mess anything up except your wallet!

I disagree. Even stock will make more power. On a N/A car it might not make power but on a 335i it will.
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      03-09-2007, 05:26 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evo8MRto335I View Post
It is becoming very obvious that some people have zero experience on using race gas at all.

Typically even with a mild mixture of race gas and even if you don't touch the boost a turbo car will still make significant gains. I typically gained 3mph average and shaved 2tenth of a second with mild mixtures of race gas on my turbo cars.

I took a 94 Dodge Stealth TT bone stock to the track and managed a 13.9@98, after I put only 3 gallons of 109oct to a 8 galons of 91oct I ended with a 13.7@102.4 mph

The 2 tenth of a second is very belieable. When you guys compare the Vishnu package tested by Edmunds website I strongly believe it was more of a traction and driver issue, that Vishnu pacakge should have put you deep into the 12's.

Race gas do help a lot. Here is a friend of mine with a Evo 9 and no map for race gas, he increased 64whp and 62lb/tq on a Mustang Dyno to all 4 wheels just by going from 91oct to pure 100oct and that is whitout a map for 100oct.

308 Hp and 327 TQ MD Pump
372 AWHP 389 AWTQ pure 100 octane

Carlos
Carlos, couple of things for you:

1. Edmunds used the same car, same driver on the same track so what's your point? The Edmunds Procede car knocked off 2/10th off of stock, there's NO way using racing gas will give you the same result in a 0-60 run. The Procede adds REAL HP and TQ.

2. Even if you really shaved off 2/10th on a 1/4 mile, that's probably due to a better launch. even if you really did see an improvement and shaved off 2/10ths off, that's over an entire 1/4 mile. Shaving off 2/10th on a 0-60 mph run...just by using high octane gas...NOT POSSIBLE!

3. The only time you need higher octane is to reduce detonation: in forced-induction applications and/or a high compression motor. Octane is a fuel’s resistance to burn. The higher the octane, the easier it can withstand higher compression and temperature without igniting and causing pre-ignition or detonation. Detonation occurs when the fuel mixture ignites other than at the spark plug. Higher octane fuel will prevent this from happening on high boost applications.

That said, since there's no detonation when using 91 octane at stock boost levels, using 100 octane will be completely useless on a car that was built to use 91 octane.

4. Lastly, the ECU must be coded/mapped to take FULL advantage of high octane gas, which is why Procede will be offering different fuel maps for different octanes.

Next time, don't be so quick to say "that some people have zero experience on using race gas."

Last edited by mayno; 03-09-2007 at 05:38 PM. Reason: .
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