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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > JB4 CPS offset dyno testing and logs



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      05-16-2012, 08:50 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by Laguna Seca Blue View Post
One last thing, then I'll stop I promise
Seems that you are not to be trusted.
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      05-16-2012, 09:10 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by jippii ensio View Post
Seems that you are not to be trusted.
I lol'd
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      05-16-2012, 09:32 AM   #157
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If anyone wants to pull something positive out of this, we should all be thankful that we have Proceed, JB & Cobb.

Without competition the original Proceed was $1,300 for a (comparatively) crude product, and that was with a stronger dollar. If JB had not arrived to compete, the pace at which innovation occurred would have been much slower and we would be paying Dinan prices for worse products. Thanks to the competition, we are able to choose our tune and get great products at reasonable prices. Without the competition, we would have neither.
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      05-16-2012, 09:42 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by Laguna Seca Blue View Post
The REv3 literally must have taken Shiv thousands of man hours to develop. Frankly, I don't think the price he sells them at is high at all. If I'm paying less than I should becuase one of his competitors commited intellectual property theft and undercut him, that's not really fair, is it?
The initial development costs have long been paid off or Shiv isn't as good a businessman as I've given him credit for.

In regards to intellectual property theft, do either Terry or Shiv have patents on anything? If not, it's the open market and not getting a patent or spending money to make reverse engineering difficult is an open invitation for competitors to be created. As a small businessman you should recognize that competition often makes the original business more successful as the target market starts to saturate. I can't tell you how many Evo/Sti guys I have spoken to that were looking to a 335i/xi because they got spanked or heard about the platform's potential. I haven't personally spoken to Srt4/Cobalt types but I have seen quite a few forum members that used to drive those cars as well.

I don't begrudge Shiv or Terry (or Cobb/GIAC/etc) for innovation based on what the other was doing, this is business not the playground. While 'fair' may keep you warm and fuzzy inside, it doesn't pay the bills. In a market with direct competition on a very similar product with a limited # of prospective buyers, it's innovate or die. Not to dig too hard on GIAC, but I wonder what their USA sales have been like since Cobb came on the market?

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Originally Posted by Laguna Seca Blue View Post
Unless you're simply trying to save $300 on a $50,000+ car, I don't get why'd go for the BMS product. That's all...
From what I've seen, price wasn't a factor for many people, $300 is chump change to most of us. More about who you want to do business with.

This $50k is thrown around a lot but I'd venture to guess (based solely on my observations) that most JB4/Procede are being installed on 2007-2009 cars more so than 2011-2012. The older cars are closer to $20k than they are to $50k+, I don't know about you but I'd be much more willing to wrench on my $25-30k car than a $50-55k brand new car. Be interesting to see if Cobb is installed on more brand new cars as compared to JB4/Procede.
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      05-16-2012, 10:19 AM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Here a some of the things we, and we alone, developed along the way. You can see for yourself how many features/functions were eventually adopted/copied by Terry after many attempts to scare users from accepting them. I believe he insisted that every one of these were "dangerous" or "unnecessary" at one time or another:


17) Datalogging (<-- yes, he at one time said this was a silly "frill")
this is really how bms approaches things. call something unnecessary or market your product as a superior product because it doesn't need/use that feature. then, a few months later, release that said feature because of "customer demand." what a joke.

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Originally Posted by mykal335xi View Post
Vishnu can't guarantee they provide better service than BMS

I won't go into which one is better crafted, suffice it to say that from the customer service aspect BMS and Cobb are in another league compared to Vishnu (assuming you go by past customers and what they say about the companies).

I can assure you both Terry and Shiv care who makes more money, being that both are in business and not just goofing off on a forum.

The only joke here would be if anyone actually took these kinds of threads seriously
it's awesome when people talk shit about vishnu's customer service when they have never actually experienced vishnu's customer service. what kind of shitty reasoning is "i heard such and such sucks, but i never bought it or tried it myself." great credibility, bro.

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I really don't have the time to look them up, but I can assure you it has gone both ways. This thread is mild and much shorter than the past threads. Some of Scalbert's threads were great. Regardless of the people arguing back and forth, most of us learn a lot about the product and the engine in these.
vishnu has NEVER copied anything BMS has ever done.

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It was bumped by a fanboy who coincedentally removed his post.
actually, it was bumped by me, i'm not a fanboy, and my post is still there (i never removed it)
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      05-16-2012, 10:27 AM   #160
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Bryce,
You’re constantly on Vishnu's nuts. It's just a product you brought and nothing more. Stop trying to make it seem like its god's gift on earth for N54's. You are so biased it's not even worth arguing with you. It's sad to see there are people like you who are so easily manipulated.
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      05-16-2012, 10:30 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by bryce View Post
it's awesome when people talk shit about vishnu's customer service when they have never actually experienced vishnu's customer service. what kind of shitty reasoning is "i heard such and such sucks, but i never bought it or tried it myself." great credibility, bro.
I've had my share of their customer service, wasn't impressed. Also glad you're keeping tabs on what I've bought and who I've been talking to, at least it would seem that way with the assumptions you just made. Maybe you work for Vishnu? Great credibility, bro!
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      05-16-2012, 10:30 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by artsoasis View Post
Bryce,
You’re constantly on Vishnu's nuts. It's just a product you brought and nothing more. Stop trying to make it seem like its god's gift on earth for N54's. You are so biased it's not even worth arguing with you. It's sad to see there are people like you who are so easily manipulated.
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      05-16-2012, 10:34 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by artsoasis View Post
You are so biased it's not even worth arguing with you. It's sad to see there are people like you who are so easily manipulated.
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      05-16-2012, 10:44 AM   #164
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this is awfully entertaining...
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      05-16-2012, 11:00 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by mykal335xi View Post
This $50k is thrown around a lot but I'd venture to guess (based solely on my observations) that most JB4/Procede are being installed on 2007-2009 cars more so than 2011-2012. The older cars are closer to $20k than they are to $50k+, I don't know about you but I'd be much more willing to wrench on my $25-30k car than a $50-55k brand new car. Be interesting to see if Cobb is installed on more brand new cars as compared to JB4/Procede.
I don't have a comment about the tunes, but I disagree with this. Regardless of whether you are tuning a $25K used 335i or a brand-new $50K 335i, the cost of catastrophic failure is the same (about $10K+ for engine replacement).

There are many benefits to tuning a brand new car over a used one - all components on a new car are usually in top shape, no wear and tear, suspension is tighter and brakes are fresh and more ready to respond to added power, no need to try to diagnose issues like carbon deposits, pipe leaks, worn our spark plugs, injectors, reduced compression, etc.

OTOH, tuning a used car may exacerbate some existing minor issues that didn't crop up until substantially more boost was applied.

I'm not trying to bash your opinion. I am just curious as to why people think it's somehow more cost effective to either wait until warranty expires to tune their cars, or that it is somehow less risk to tune a used car vs. new car of essentially the same make and model.

With respect to 335s, I do see a clear benefit to tuning a used model as they have N54 motors instead of N55s. Of course, people can just also buy a new 335is for the N54.
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      05-16-2012, 11:17 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by bryce View Post
actually, it was bumped by me, i'm not a fanboy, and my post is still there (i never removed it)
I usually don't comment, but come on let's be real here... it's not hard to see that you are the one of the biggest Proceed fanboys out there. There's nothing wrong with that, but just call it as it is. (This is coming from someone who has all the tunes)
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      05-16-2012, 11:28 AM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlterZgo View Post
I don't have a comment about the tunes, but I disagree with this. Regardless of whether you are tuning a $25K used 335i or a brand-new $50K 335i, the cost of catastrophic failure is the same (about $10K+ for engine replacement).

There are many benefits to tuning a brand new car over a used one - all components on a new car are usually in top shape, no wear and tear, suspension is tighter and brakes are fresh and more ready to respond to added power, no need to try to diagnose issues like carbon deposits, pipe leaks, worn our spark plugs, injectors, reduced compression, etc.

OTOH, tuning a used car may exacerbate some existing minor issues that didn't crop up until substantially more boost was applied.

I'm not trying to bash your opinion. I am just curious as to why people think it's somehow more cost effective to either wait until warranty expires to tune their cars, or that it is somehow less risk to tune a used car vs. new car of essentially the same make and model.

With respect to 335s, I do see a clear benefit to tuning a used model as they have N54 motors instead of N55s. Of course, people can just also buy a new 335is for the N54.
You make many good points. However, warranty is the key word. Most people do not want to make changes that would void warranty or are a hassle to remove for dealer visits.
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      05-16-2012, 11:30 AM   #168
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i also have all 3 tunes (jb, procede, cobb). not sure why respecting shiv, the way the procede drives, the innovation behind it, etc. makes you a fanboy.

i also love the cobb datalogging. once the ATR comes out, i'll have fun adjusting maps. i used to tune my old kpro and really enjoy making tweaks, datalogging, and making more tweaks to adjust the performance of my own car.

how many people in this thread have any tuning experience before their n54? i'm sure it's not that many, as SO many people blindly chose the jb4
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      05-16-2012, 11:37 AM   #169
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I really think this thread has run its course and its just getting funny now (but entertaining) I think this should be closed as you guys are just going off on personal attacks now and nothing really productive is emerging.

Mike
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