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      03-10-2007, 05:09 PM   #45
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Can't say for all or any tuners what their marketing plan is and development process.

In no way am I knocking his product with this statement. Vishnu offers 1 product for BMW's at this point in time and RDsport offers how many? Hundreds... They would require a dedicated team in order to sit on message boards and give people the play by play of every single product. The reason behind fiberglass side skirts versus polyurethane or ABS plastic or carbon fiber..

If there is testing done in house (in Italy) and wherever else then great. Sure it is great to be involved but it is not necessary with every case and product. Do you know the ins and outs of your entire car? Was that why you bought it?

If you youself feel that Shiv has set the standard then great, I obviously did not think that was the case is why I went with a different product. This argument can be said about anything, exhaust, steering wheel, rims/wheels, watches, food, clothes and so on.

If you knew how to read or took the time to do so, this product is not mine nor does the development have anything to do with me. The product went on the car and posting the results and my thoughts.

Just simply providing some information, personal opinions and enthusiam. The few that say I sound like an infomercial, am I suppose to de-tune my enthusiam and dumb myself down to explain how I feel about things. Is a single sentence enough? Should I use smaller words?

ie, A) Why did you get Acme exhaust instead of XYZ?
B)Can't believe you, didn't you know it makes 3rwhp more. Your an idiot.

So if I were to get Turner Motorsports software then am I completely insane?

Let's say, you wear a Seiko and I wear a Roger Dubuis, what does that make me?
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      03-10-2007, 05:26 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamBoler View Post
Let's say, you wear a Seiko and I wear a Roger Dubuis, what does that make me?
Someone who has a good taste in watches. However still apples to oranges.
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      03-10-2007, 05:33 PM   #47
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As long as YOU are happy with your purchase, then thats what should matter to you. Your car made some nice gains and and of course you should be enthusiastic about that.

On the other hand, don't expect everyone else to share your enthusiasm. Anytime anyone posts anything about a product, you are going to have those people for/against it. Most people will be skeptical at first Most on the forum have followed a product like the PROcede go through beta testing then to a final product over the past few months. It has repeatedly put down more power at a better price point than the black box, hence, not many were impressed with the info you stated. That's not to say the black box isn't a good product. Time will tell.

Competition is a good thing. I am sure more and more tuners, both reputable and not so reliable, will get in the game with their own 335i upgrades. Its just up to each individual to choose whats best for them.
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      03-10-2007, 05:36 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamBoler View Post
Vishnu offers 1 product for BMW's at this point in time and RDsport offers how many? Hundreds... They would require a dedicated team in order to sit on message boards and give people the play by play of every single product. The reason behind fiberglass side skirts versus polyurethane or ABS plastic or carbon fiber..
Don't know why you're so defensive about a product you have no interest in. I have no idea how many team members it takes to keep interested members on a popular board advised. Doesn't matter to me how they want to market their product.

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Originally Posted by SamBoler View Post
. Do you know the ins and outs of your entire car? Was that why you bought it?
No, but I did what I usually do before I make a major purchase - I spent quite a bit of time researching before I made a decision.

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Originally Posted by SamBoler View Post
If you youself feel that Shiv has set the standard then great, I obviously did not think that was the case is why I went with a different product. This argument can be said about anything, exhaust, steering wheel, rims/wheels, watches, food, clothes and so on.
I wasn't talking about the product itself. I was talking about the standard for providing information. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

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Originally Posted by SamBoler View Post
If you knew how to read or took the time to do so, this product is not mine nor does the development have anything to do with me. The product went on the car and posting the results and my thoughts.
I know that's what you say, but the way you're coming on like gangbusters in defense of your purchase makes me wonder.

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Originally Posted by SamBoler View Post
The few that say I sound like an infomercial, am I suppose to de-tune my enthusiam and dumb myself down to explain how I feel about things. Is a single sentence enough? Should I use smaller words?
It's simply a matter of style. When I first read the post, it had the distinct odor of marketing hype. If that's your normal style this can't be the first time you've heard about it.

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Let's say, you wear a Seiko and I wear a Roger Dubuis, what does that make me?
Someone who'll pay more for a watch than I will.
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      03-10-2007, 05:45 PM   #49
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In no way am I knocking his product with this statement. Vishnu offers 1 product for BMW's at this point in time and RDsport offers how many? Hundreds... They would require a dedicated team in order to sit on message boards and give people the play by play of every single product. bought it?
Sorry to jump in again. But I'm guessing one reason they did not offer a play by play of product development is because they didn't develop the product or do the mapping set-up. That's because we did. That's cool though. But sometimes you have to call it like it is.

cheers,
shiv
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      03-10-2007, 05:52 PM   #50
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I did hear from one of the Xede guys that they were working with a European BMW Tuner and that they were getting the complete schematics of the Siemens DME from them. They implied that this cooperation could lead to a new and revised unit and/or software.

After reading your posts, I am wondering if they are working with Racing Dynamics. Can anyone confirm?
When Shiv announced that he in fact didn't make the Xede and that he would no longer be using the unit, the Aussies came on that thread and said Xedes were still available and they were making a new box that would have increased versatility/more imputs/outputs so I am pretty sure they are coming out with a new box. If this is an older Xede box it might be a little over-priced even if the map is very good.
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      03-10-2007, 06:01 PM   #51
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Someone who has a good taste in watches. However still apples to oranges.
Agreed about comparing one to another. My point is that it is a matter of opinion
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      03-10-2007, 06:04 PM   #52
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As long as YOU are happy with your purchase, then thats what should matter to you. Your car made some nice gains and and of course you should be enthusiastic about that.

On the other hand, don't expect everyone else to share your enthusiasm. Anytime anyone posts anything about a product, you are going to have those people for/against it. Most people will be skeptical at first Most on the forum have followed a product like the PROcede go through beta testing then to a final product over the past few months. It has repeatedly put down more power at a better price point than the black box, hence, not many were impressed with the info you stated. That's not to say the black box isn't a good product. Time will tell.

Competition is a good thing. I am sure more and more tuners, both reputable and not so reliable, will get in the game with their own 335i upgrades. Its just up to each individual to choose whats best for them.

As stated, I am happy.

Not expecting everyone to share the same enthusiam. And not expecting everyone to jump on the product. The Procede undoubtedly has produced the numbers. In no way am I putting the product down or denying it.

Exactly
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      03-10-2007, 06:05 PM   #53
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Agreed about comparing one to another. My point is that it is a matter of opinion
If thats the case then you should have been comparing a civic to the 335. Thats more in line with the watches comparison, not software upgrades. Regardless, your point was made.

I think this thread is at the point where its useless and everything that can be said has been said. The OP just wanted to show what they got and that they were just showing that theres another option available.

Lets let this one go to bed shall we?
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      03-10-2007, 06:22 PM   #54
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I only have one comment on RDSport. The have lots of experience and have been selling AM parts for BMW's for years and most of us know the story about what happend between Federico and Electodyne.

But on personal experience I had a much less that satisfactory dealing with Federico directly. I bought my e46 M3 from a friend of his, JM and paid a premium for AM parts including among many other things, an RD Sport silencer and X-Pipe. When I got the car the silencer was on it but not the mid pipe so JM tells me it wont be a problem, it was at RDSports shop and I would just get it later.

The seller was actually a cool guy, at least at first and drove to meet me to pick up the OEM brakes, suspension, etc and also hooked me up to get a good deal on some Kinesis wheels. But when it came to the midpipe he never got around to getting it for me from Federico and after a while never returned calls. So finally I started calling and E-mailing Federico directly since it was obvious JM wasn't going to help me or deliver the part that he listed on the car and charged me for.

Federico was super nice and smooth and charming as can be with the accent and all. He completely acknowledged that Jimmy had in fact paid for the X-pipe and he would send it to me but it would never show up. A month later I would call again and he would say it had been back ordered and they would ship it soon. Each and every time I offered to pay shipping and asked if he wanted my CC#, I also offered to pick-up at his Ontario warehouse or at his shop but he said he didn't have will-call.

Anyway, bottom line is I never got my Pipe, eventually sold the M3 and wrote it off as a lesson learned. I was surprised that the owner/head of a prominent company like RDSport would be so dishonest. Not saying anyone else would have a similar experience but obviously I would never buy another product from them. If someone from RDSport wants to give their side or especially if they want to send me my pipe that would be very welcomed.
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      03-10-2007, 06:23 PM   #55
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Don't know why you're so defensive about a product you have no interest in. I have no idea how many team members it takes to keep interested members on a popular board advised. Doesn't matter to me how they want to market their product.



No, but I did what I usually do before I make a major purchase - I spent quite a bit of time researching before I made a decision.



I wasn't talking about the product itself. I was talking about the standard for providing information. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.



I know that's what you say, but the way you're coming on like gangbusters in defense of your purchase makes me wonder.



It's simply a matter of style. When I first read the post, it had the distinct odor of marketing hype. If that's your normal style this can't be the first time you've heard about it.


Someone who'll pay more for a watch than I will.
Sorry if I offended you or anyone due to mixing what is negative to just opinions

Not defensive about the product. Simply, I am stating my opinions about my purchase and so on. When people are openly saying that my purchase is a mistake and other negative things, am I suppose to sit there and just say 'okay, it was and should have purchased a proceed', absolutely not. Agreed that how they market is up to them.

You did research, as did I. Maybe not as much but was done none the less. This was the fruit of my decision as we are all entitled albeit a car or other things

Sorry if I came on strong, my defense was up due to other posts in this thread which I am sure you can read.

Once again, you are correct. Not the first time that I have heard about my style of writing/speaking.

about the watch.

For the most part, we are all enthusiasts and I am not here to get into heated arguments and put others down. Just want to be informative.
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      03-10-2007, 06:25 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Sorry to jump in again. But I'm guessing one reason they did not offer a play by play of product development is because they didn't develop the product or do the mapping set-up. That's because we did. That's cool though. But sometimes you have to call it like it is.

cheers,
shiv
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      03-10-2007, 06:26 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Sorry to jump in again. But I'm guessing one reason they did not offer a play by play of product development is because they didn't develop the product or do the mapping set-up. That's because we did. That's cool though. But sometimes you have to call it like it is.

cheers,
shiv

By all means, your input is welcome.

If the case were to be so, that does not make a difference to me. It is understood that it is applicable to you as you have a 'like' and competing product.

Thank you for thoughts and sharing. It is what it is.
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      03-10-2007, 06:28 PM   #58
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This is funny....

This stuff happens in the EVO world.

Someone will opt to buy HKS, JUN or some other japanese tuner parts for more money and get less gains, and protect that company by saying their from the land of EVO or they have had EVO for longer then the US, so their better.
When the could have bought Vishnu or Buschur stuff for cheaper and get larger gains.

Conclusion just because company X has made BMW parts for ever, for many BMWs, doesn't mean their the best.

Most want the company that makes the best power, for the best price, with the best service and the most trust (in their eyes). Sometimes you trade power for trust, service for power, etc.

As long as your happy with your purchase, you didnt get ripped off. Its just you might not be so happy with your purchase after you line up with a vishnu power 335i ............
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      03-10-2007, 06:28 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radgator1 View Post
When Shiv announced that he in fact didn't make the Xede and that he would no longer be using the unit, the Aussies came on that thread and said Xedes were still available and they were making a new box that would have increased versatility/more imputs/outputs so I am pretty sure they are coming out with a new box. If this is an older Xede box it might be a little over-priced even if the map is very good.
Good info to know.

Hopefully, this is the new box
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      03-10-2007, 06:31 PM   #60
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If thats the case then you should have been comparing a civic to the 335. Thats more in line with the watches comparison, not software upgrades. Regardless, your point was made.

I think this thread is at the point where its useless and everything that can be said has been said. The OP just wanted to show what they got and that they were just showing that theres another option available.

Lets let this one go to bed shall we?

It was mentioned on the first page about SRT-4,EVO and WRX.

OP??

Yes, just wanted to share.

The intention was to start a discussion, not a war or anything of the like.
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      03-10-2007, 06:34 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by radgator1 View Post
I only have one comment on RDSport. The have lots of experience and have been selling AM parts for BMW's for years and most of us know the story about what happend between Federico and Electodyne.

But on personal experience I had a much less that satisfactory dealing with Federico directly. I bought my e46 M3 from a friend of his, JM and paid a premium for AM parts including among many other things, an RD Sport silencer and X-Pipe. When I got the car the silencer was on it but not the mid pipe so JM tells me it wont be a problem, it was at RDSports shop and I would just get it later.

The seller was actually a cool guy, at least at first and drove to meet me to pick up the OEM brakes, suspension, etc and also hooked me up to get a good deal on some Kinesis wheels. But when it came to the midpipe he never got around to getting it for me from Federico and after a while never returned calls. So finally I started calling and E-mailing Federico directly since it was obvious JM wasn't going to help me or deliver the part that he listed on the car and charged me for.

Federico was super nice and smooth and charming as can be with the accent and all. He completely acknowledged that Jimmy had in fact paid for the X-pipe and he would send it to me but it would never show up. A month later I would call again and he would say it had been back ordered and they would ship it soon. Each and every time I offered to pay shipping and asked if he wanted my CC#, I also offered to pick-up at his Ontario warehouse or at his shop but he said he didn't have will-call.

Anyway, bottom line is I never got my Pipe, eventually sold the M3 and wrote it off as a lesson learned. I was surprised that the owner/head of a prominent company like RDSport would be so dishonest. Not saying anyone else would have a similar experience but obviously I would never buy another product from them. If someone from RDSport wants to give their side or especially if they want to send me my pipe that would be very welcomed.
Sorry to hear about your experience with them.
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      03-10-2007, 06:34 PM   #62
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You guys are ridding the guy pretty hard considering no one bothered to ask how much boost or timing he is running. It sounds like 1-2psi less than the PROcede setup. If he raises the boost 1-2psi I'm sure he'll get the same numbers. All these devices do basically the same thing, its about which ones don't throw codes, which ones offer additional "cool" features, and deciding if you want to go with the forum solution or go it your own.
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      03-10-2007, 06:39 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Jay@ATP View Post
This is funny....

This stuff happens in the EVO world.

Someone will opt to buy HKS, JUN or some other japanese tuner parts for more money and get less gains, and protect that company by saying their from the land of EVO or they have had EVO for longer then the US, so their better.
When the could have bought Vishnu or Buschur stuff for cheaper and get larger gains.

Conclusion just because company X has made BMW parts for ever, for many BMWs, doesn't mean their the best.

Most want the company that makes the best power, for the best price, with the best service and the most trust (in their eyes). Sometimes you trade power for trust, service for power, etc.

As long as your happy with your purchase, you didnt get ripped off. Its just you might not be so happy with your purchase after you line up with a vishnu power 335i ............
This is funny.

There are many tuners for many cars that offer many products. There are infinite amount of variables that each part can be produced and it comes down to what the manufacture decides or what the market demands.

Not saying that any one company is better than the next.

Agreed.

Happy with my purchase.

So I will be rolling with Chesmu then

We will have to see...
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      03-10-2007, 06:51 PM   #64
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OP??
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      03-10-2007, 06:57 PM   #65
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You guys are ridding the guy pretty hard considering no one bothered to ask how much boost or timing he is running. It sounds like 1-2psi less than the PROcede setup. If he raises the boost 1-2psi I'm sure he'll get the same numbers. All these devices do basically the same thing, its about which ones don't throw codes, which ones offer additional "cool" features, and deciding if you want to go with the forum solution or go it your own.
Thank you very much Terry.

I have no clue what the boost is or what the timing is. That would have to be answered by the manufacture. What I do know was provided given that it was not very technical.

In terms of the function of these devices, it is pretty basic from what I have read. The Black Box, Haltech, xede, procede or any other similar device adjust values of boost, timing, fuel, air and whatever else. Can't remember the name of other like products from japanese manufactures but have seen friends 'tune' their cars with them on the dyno.

This was a fairly simple install and dyno.
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      03-10-2007, 06:58 PM   #66
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I see. Thank you
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