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      03-11-2007, 12:20 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOK11atXEDE View Post

I don’t propose to know what Vishnu’s primary requirements are. The Vishnu PROcede is, unless I'm very, very mistaken (and I have been doing this for more than a few years now) a Haltech Interceptor. The Interceptor was made by Haltech a couple of years after we made the XEDE and "hello" to Scotty and the boys at Haltech in Sydney Australia, whom I know well. When we heard of their Interceptor's impending manufacture, we suggested they use a different box/case so it didn't look like an XEDE but, that's old news now anyway. I'm sure the PROcede has a nice new sticker on the front that says PROcede etc etc. The editing/uploading software will say PROcede but, no doubt will be licenced to a Sydney company.
Incorrect. But that's cool.

Quote:
Look, as of Dec 31 2006, Vishnu ceased to have sole US distribution rights to the XEDE product. That was a business decision for us at ChipTorque who design and manufacture the XEDE. I can accept a business decision by Vishnu about a change of brand/supplier related to that. That is, as others have said all over this forum, just good business competition. When Shiv (who should know better) wants to parade any technical shortcoming in our product, you'll get me to bite. :mad: :mad:
Are you saying that there have been no technical shortcomings with the Xede? Are you sure you want to go there? I'd rather not.

Quote:
I assume you meant overheat??
The XEDE is not designed to be left on for more than 170hours continuiously, nor would I suggest that any current drawing device (PROcede or any other) be left on when the vehicle has powered down. Due diligence in R&D of the 335i ECU will provide the correct method of interfacing with it, rather than leaving a unit powered up all the time.
For someone who has soliciting my employees for 335i installation/tuning/set-up info just a few weeks ago. And for someone who is now supporting other companies that are directly soliciting my beta customers to come in so that they can copy my Xede maps, talking to me about "due diligence in R&D" is funny. Perhaps, in this context, it means "Rip off an Duplicate." Again... that's cool. We knew what would happen once we abandoned the Xede. And we know what steps you take to try to keep it alive in this application.

Quote:
Yes, we do. It’s that way for reliability. Shiv, you haven’t been in the automotive industry for the last 24 years. – It’s for protection against accidental error by a tuner or end user with the adjustment software. Laptops fall off the seat, power supplies go flat, dare I say it, Microsoft Operating Systems could even hang in mid operation!!! Design the protection into the system - ME101.


Quote:
Now here’s where I lose it…..
...- AND - An additional input for Dual Map banks - for Race Gas and Normal Gas or anything else you might want Dual maps for as standard. It already works! You don't need to wait for some vapourware remote switch method. It's in the standard XEDE!
Of course it is. Did I ever say or imply thta the Xede can't map switch. Nope. In fact, i said that it could from day 1. As for your vaporware comment, here's a very real pic of the radio controlled map switch device in a very real box of failed Xedes:



Quote:
I even went to the Vishnu PROcede website to see if I was missing something. I looked in their installation video, but no, they're still only using 1 Crank signal In/Out, 1 Analogue signal In/Out and 1 Current drive signal. Was that 2 channels and a driver???
Opps, there's power and ground as well that’s 2 more pins and I guess 3 for comms like an XEDE does (Sorry, my Bad! - Nice Video though).
I had made no mistake, the PROcede install instruction and wiring harness show clearly, it is using a half of the pins in an XEDE. IMHO – half of what an XEDE can do standing on it's head. At least if there really is a plan to add any other features to the PROcede, tell these good people that they’ll have to get a new harness etc. etc. to go with any new feature that’s added.
Who said anything about a new harness? All they will need is a new pre-terminated wire that I'll mail to them along with instructions on where to plug it into. I've said this before so it should not be a surprise to readers.

The other alternative was to continue developing the Xede, get it to the point that it was working the way we wanted it to work, sell a whole bunch and THEN says.. "Hey guys, we got VANOS and speed limiter control now. Unfortunately, it wont work on the Xede you have. You have to now purchase the Xede II which is a completely different system. Vist our website to place an online order."

We opt for alternative #1.

Quote:
We'll see what happens on here with other tuners starting to use the XEDE product in this wonderful car. There are many outstanding tuners in this world, let alone on this forum.
Then have them develop the Xede themselves and actually fix the shortcomings that were evident instead of rushing in for sloppy seconds with the same imperfect product just to claim "I can tune your car too!!"

Quote:
I'm not suggesting Shiv's tuning is poor, far from it!!! But DO NOT blame a commercial business decision on product suitability. That's the old story of a poor tradesperson blaming their tools. IMHO, Keeping you all enthusiastic on the forums as he develops products and making you wait an eternity to deliver anything - Just really good marketing if you ask me.
When/if you and your new tuners get more cars on the road running the Xede (a I had/have), I'll bring this point back up again. Been there. Done that. And have the T-shirt to prove it.

Regards,
shiv

Last edited by shiv@vishnu; 03-11-2007 at 01:53 PM.
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      03-11-2007, 12:21 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by RiXst3r View Post
It wont work on the 335i. I encourage you to try it.
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      03-11-2007, 12:26 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Incorrect. But that's cool.

Then have them develop the Xede themselves and actually fix the shortcomings that were evident instead of rushing in for sloppy seconds with the same imperfect product just to claim "I can tune your car too!!"

When you and your new tuners get more cars on the road running the Xede (a I had/have), I'll bring this point back up again. Been there. Done that. And have the T-shirt to prove it.

Regards,
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:rocks: :rocks: fuckin PWONED!!
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      03-11-2007, 12:34 PM   #92
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Why would you keep a new radio controlled map switching board in the same box as a bunch of Xedes with "clearly marked" fault notes on them? Is that your junk pile?
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      03-11-2007, 12:37 PM   #93
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I'd suggest Shiv and his previous vendor not air their dirty laundry in public, but if you've been following their posts I believe Shiv claimed he wanted more control over the product and Lok is suggesting he (they) wanted multiple US distributors for XEDE.

T

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdude View Post
First the ringers showed up. Thread was or became a vehicle to bait Shiv into responding. Then the big gun decloaks and opens fire. Thread is now a full-bore pissing contest between two former business buddies. Other than providing the same entertainment value as a train wreck, most of us couldn't care less which box is used - as long as it works.

If, as you say, there isn't a dime's worth of difference between the two boxes, the question is "what is the real reason Shiv dumped your product and is classing it as second rate?" Did you go up on your prices? Did you say something about his mama? Or worse yet, did you tell him he couldn't tune his way out of a wet paper bag? Only you and Shiv know the real reason. You can either let us in on it or you and Shiv can continue with your pissing contest. The members and lurkers will at least get what we get from most news channels: Heavy entertainment value with litte usable news.
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      03-11-2007, 12:40 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Burger View Post
I'd suggest Shiv and his previous vendor not air their dirty laundry in public, but if you've been following their posts I believe Shiv claimed he wanted more control over the product
I wanted a product with more control (more inputs/outputs). Not more control over the product. But yes, I agree with you, this pissing match really doesn't belong online. Perhaps I just got out of the wong side of the bed this morning.

-shiv

Last edited by shiv@vishnu; 03-11-2007 at 12:55 PM.
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      03-11-2007, 01:14 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TQ View Post
Why would you keep a new radio controlled map switching board in the same box as a bunch of Xedes with "clearly marked" fault notes on them? Is that your junk pile?
You've been owned already.
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      03-11-2007, 01:27 PM   #96
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I think I just want a reliable solution to increasing my car's performance with minimal risk of my engine failing. I certainly don't care who makes it. I do want reliable service though should something go wrong. Most things I buy I research. Shiv has provided us all with a large amount of information that we (at least I) don't usually have access to before buying something. It seems he has a thorough knowledge and a wealth of experience (as do other tuners), and is willing to answer questions. Maybe it's because he was the first on the boards here, but it seems no one else has walked us through their development of their product. Maybe in a year we'll have more info on others piggyback ecu's. Until then, not sure why someone here would pick something else than the Procede. Now give me more info on your R&D, and maybe I will change my mind. If you're just gonna come on here and attack other tuners because of some personal spat then shut up (really that goes both ways). We (I) don't care. BTW... How many of the big BMW aftermarket companies work on turbo engines regularly? Especially since BMW has been cranking out so many twin turbo engines over the last 10 years.
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      03-11-2007, 01:36 PM   #97
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Shiv I highly sugest you find a way to encrypt your maps and setup your using,It cleary shows that you have some people that want to bring you down and kinda rip off your hard earned work...

I am patiently waiting for the tuned vanos version maps and some race gas maps

for you other tuners why dont you build up your rep the right way and not use bs dramma like little school kids.

Heres a hint....Fly over here and tune people cars like Shiv has done and slowly build up your rep.

I don't care if Shivs unit is a haltec...ect it looks like he is using the best hardware for us and standing behind his work.

I don;t know any other tuners that have spent this much time on one car and answer all these questions in the forums...

I don't see turner,RD,Dinan or any of the top dogs in here everyday helping out...
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      03-11-2007, 01:41 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TQ View Post
Why would you keep a new radio controlled map switching board in the same box as a bunch of Xedes with "clearly marked" fault notes on them? Is that your junk pile?
Shiv's not my guru... I don't own Xede or Procede. Just pointing out that any tech savvy person will do firmware upgrades regularly.

I'm guessing, but I assume he put the radio controlled map switching board in a box of failed xedes because he thought it would be a nice way to frame it and make two points at once, the board exists and xedes suck. He did get up on the "wong" side of the bed after all!

It's great to see the maturity of a vendor who creates a bunch of accounts to flame a competitor who dumped their asses!

I haven't bought either product yet, but this helps in choosing a vendor to trust and respect! And it's a great laugh too!

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      03-11-2007, 01:52 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grkm3 View Post
Shiv I highly sugest you find a way to encrypt your maps and setup your using,It cleary shows that you have some people that want to bring you down and kinda rip off your hard earned work...

I am patiently waiting for the tuned vanos version maps and some race gas maps

for you other tuners why dont you build up your rep the right way and not use bs dramma like little school kids.

Heres a hint....Fly over here and tune people cars like Shiv has done and slowly build up your rep.

I don't care if Shivs unit is a haltec...ect it looks like he is using the best hardware for us and standing behind his work.

I don;t know any other tuners that have spent this much time on one car and answer all these questions in the forums...

I don't see turner,RD,Dinan or any of the top dogs in here everyday helping out...
I don't personally know Shiv, but I used one of his TEC-II kits on my turbocharged Impreza 2.5RS a few years ago. Shiv definitely knows his stuff and has relatively quickly brought his turbo-tuning abilities to this "new" market.

However, don't be a clueless Shiv fanboy. Shiv is not doing anything special, regardless of whatever "inside" information he may appear to have. Shiv markets a good product, and he puts plenty of his own time into fine tuning it. But it's still a business...

This is NOT an attack on Shiv by any means, but this bashing of other products/people/vendors is just ignorant.
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      03-11-2007, 01:55 PM   #100
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I don't see much value in this thread either, but I will say that Shiv and his small team has worked tirelessly for the past 6 months or so testing their products (XEDE then PROcede) on the 335.

He has made numerous trips across country, installed dozens of units, and has lots of dyno slips to prove it. He and his guys have also regularly posted on this forum answering questions.

Do they have issues? Of course they do. There are people that have been waiting 3-4 months on their orders. But, everyone must respect Shiv and his team's effort. They have by far the largest track record of work and proven installs on the 335.

I couldn't car less whether he uses the XEDE or the PROcede. The fact is that he has a product that is proven and tested. He also shows a willingness to continue to develop it. This is illustrated by his identifying problems with the XEDE and changing products.

For me, that is all that someone could ask for.

As to the other vendors, welcome. The bar for you to overcome has been set high. Good luck!
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      03-11-2007, 02:04 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveff4 View Post
I don't personally know Shiv, but I used one of his TEC-II kits on my turbocharged Impreza 2.5RS a few years ago. Shiv definitely knows his stuff and has relatively quickly brought his turbo-tuning abilities to this "new" market.

However, don't be a clueless Shiv fanboy. Shiv is not doing anything special, regardless of whatever "inside" information he may appear to have. Shiv markets a good product, and he puts plenty of his own time into fine tuning it. But it's still a business...

This is NOT an attack on Shiv by any means, but this bashing of other products/people/vendors is just ignorant.
Hi Steve. A tec-II kit? God, that must have been what 8 years ago! Just a bit of clarification: Your TEC-II kit was just an off-the-shelf TEC-II with a fully viewable baseline map that I made and some application specific wiring adapters that made the installation easier than it would be if you tried to install a generic TEC-II kit that you could have purchased directly from Electromotive or any other Electromotive dealer.

In the case of the PROcede, things are a bit different. It is a proprietary product that has a lot of behind the scene development time and features. Some of features and functions have readily disclosed. Others we're not so loose lipped about for obvious reasons. A lot of things have happened in the last decade. The least of which have been our shift from standalone computers to interceptor style piggybacks.

But yes, you are correct. We are not doing anything that any other developer/tuning can't do given some understanding, travel time and a fair chunk of effort. But the IP we have in the PROcede is substantially more than we had in the TEC-II kit.

Cheers,
shiv
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      03-11-2007, 02:14 PM   #102
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Hey guys,

I'm a new BMW owner (I'm not) and new to this forum (I'm not). I just bought a brand new 335i (I have a 15 month old 330) and I'm lookin for some more HP/torque. Let's see if I have this straight:
1. Vishnu = 1300.00
Competition = 1500.00

2. Vishnu = 60 whp gain
Competition = 40 whp gain

3. Vishnu = about 100 customers or more with few major problems
Competition = a few customers with a couple hundred miles experience, and no major problems.

Besides all the "I can piss farther than you can" stuff....
anything Shiv or Xede would like to add?
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      03-11-2007, 02:32 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chesmu View Post

3. Vishnu = about 100 customers or more with few major problems
Hi there,
What are these major problems? We had/have some problems right now but they are/where with people running our old Xedes (which will be/have been swapped out). Other than that, I know of 3 other problems right now. One looks to be like a fuel pump problem. The other 2 looks to be a bad crimp on the wiring harness. Nothing I would consider major. But certainly necessitating additional attention.

-shiv
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      03-11-2007, 02:57 PM   #104
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Personally I think this is the most interesting thread I have ever read. I believe that carefully reading Shiv's responses proves his knowledge of the two products. In every case he has called it like it is. To me, this thread is full disclosure. If we had more of these kinds of threads, forum members could make more informed decisions.

Dirty laundry? I think not. Understanding the underlying reasons for the switch from XEDE to Procede is invaluable. As a beta tester, the information in this thread is merely back-story. However, for someone still on the fence, it is a must read. The XEDE has its issues. Had this discussion taken place 3 months ago, I would have waited for the Procede to come out. None-the-less, I am satisfied with Shiv and his commitment to his customers.
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      03-11-2007, 02:57 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chesmu View Post
Hey guys,

I'm a new BMW owner (I'm not) and new to this forum (I'm not). I just bought a brand new 335i (I have a 15 month old 330) and I'm lookin for some more HP/torque. Let's see if I have this straight:
1. Vishnu = 1300.00
Competition = 1500.00

2. Vishnu = 60 whp gain
Competition = 40 whp gain

3. Vishnu = about 100 customers or more with few major problems
Competition = a few customers with a couple hundred miles experience, and no major problems.

Besides all the "I can piss farther than you can" stuff....
anything Shiv or Xede would like to add?

You also forgot the RWTQ increases; I think the TQ is very important to mention, since the PROcede is adding ~ 100+ lb.-ft. RWTQ vs. ~ 40 lb.-ft. RWTQ for the competitive product; that's a significant difference (more than 2x), and what helps to get you off to a very fast start (provided you can get all that power to the wheels for a decent launch ).

Hey, let's not kid ourselves...one of the main reasons why most of us love the FI tt 335i is b/c of the very high TQ in the stock car (compared with its competitors like the Infiniti G35, etc.); so adding ~ 100+ lb.-ft. RWTQ more with the PROcede is just mind-boggling and a real rush to be behind the wheel!!!! Increasing RWTQ by ~ 40 lb.-ft. RWTQ (for a total of ~ 325 lb.-ft. RWTQ) would be ok too, but not nearly as intense of having ~ 385-400 lb.-ft RWTQ!!!!
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      03-11-2007, 02:59 PM   #106
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Lol i wanna play telephone too
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      03-11-2007, 03:02 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Hi there,
What are these major problems? We had/have some problems right now but they are/where with people running our old Xedes (which will be/have been swapped out). Other than that, I know of 3 other problems right now. One looks to be like a fuel pump problem. The other 2 looks to be a bad crimp on the wiring harness. Nothing I would consider major. But certainly necessitating additional attention.

-shiv
i meant that in a good way...f*ck it...everybody's getting all defensive and postal.
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      03-11-2007, 03:05 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chesmu View Post
i meant that in a good way...f*ck it...everybody's getting all defensive and postal.
No no.. it's all good. I was just wondering what major problems you were referring too. That's all. No postal behavior here

On that note, kind sirs, i'm going for a nice long Sunday drive

shiv
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      03-11-2007, 03:23 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williamf View Post
Personally I think this is the most interesting thread I have ever read. I believe that carefully reading Shiv's responses proves his knowledge of the two products. In every case he has called it like it is. To me, this thread is full disclosure. If we had more of these kinds of threads, forum members could make more informed decisions.

Dirty laundry? I think not. Understanding the underlying reasons for the switch from XEDE to Procede is invaluable. As a beta tester, the information in this thread is merely back-story. However, for someone still on the fence, it is a must read. The XEDE has its issues. Had this discussion taken place 3 months ago, I would have waited for the Procede to come out. None-the-less, I am satisfied with Shiv and his commitment to his customers.
+1
The more posts from Shiv & other vendors, the more informative reading.
I just skip the other posts saying box a is technically better than box b, because vendor X spends more time on forums/development/wherever... Thanks Shiv for your input. It's good to know I pay for real advantages rather than you spending your time here. Especially, since I don't get paid by providing insights here Have a nice off-forum Sunday!
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      03-11-2007, 03:34 PM   #110
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