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      06-27-2015, 08:10 PM   #1
ferocity02
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Think I may have busted my N54...

I was getting onto the freeway today in a spirited manner in 3rd and it felt good for a second or two then suddenly it got louder and starting stumbling really badly, shook the whole car. Felt like I lost a wheel weight or something.

The SES like popped up instantly and stayed on. No limp mode though. Luckily I was only a 1/2 mile from home so I limped her back and noticed that it was idling very rough, like it was missing a cylinder or two.

Codes:
29CF Misfirings, cylinder 3
2DED Power management, standby current control

Shadow Codes:
29F4 Catalytic converter conversion
29F5 Catalytic converter conversion
30F2 Glow ignition, cylinder 6

When I parked it I noticed a loud metallic tapping sound, not the regular valvetrain tapping sound.

I pulled the plugs and they all look fine, no oil, no gas smell. I looked into each cylinder and didn't see anything out of the ordinary (although you can't see very much). The top of piston 6 was much less sooty than the other pistons though.

About 20 minutes later I started it back up and it sounded normal. I let it idle for a minute and then the tapping came back rather suddenly. If I give it a little rev the tapping will go away and then come back again. The SES light was gone too.

I pulled the oil filter and noticed some very tiny goldish particles. Bearing material? Next step might be to drain the oil.

Car: 2007 E90 335i, 88k miles
Mods: Wedge tuned using MHD, VTT inlets, ER chargepipe with Tial BOV, Injen intake, DP's, BMW performance exhaust. I am running 91 octane.

About 150 miles ago I installed the VTT inlets, switched from a Cobb Wedge tune to MHD Wedge tune, replaced the OFHG and a couple coolant lines, replaced the low pressure fuel sensor. Everything seemed fine until today. All injectors were replaced about 1500 miles ago.


Here is a log I was taking during the event:
http://datazap.me/u/ferocity02/uhoh?log=0&data=3

Looks like it went very lean at the end... Also a little strange that there was such a sudden increase in the load demand.

Here is a log I took while limping it back home:
http://datazap.me/u/ferocity02/uhoh?log=1&data=14-15-20

Bank 1 is very lean compared to bank 2, which also seems slightly lean.

Here is a video of the tapping sound (tapping starts at 29s):


Here is a pic of oil in the oil filter housing:


Here is a pic of the oil spread out on a plastic bag:
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Last edited by ferocity02; 06-27-2015 at 08:19 PM.
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      06-27-2015, 08:18 PM   #2
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You aren't giving it full throttle so it's a bit hard to tell, but clearly you went very, very lean. Even then, were that the issue I would have expected to see the DME pull out timing and add in tons of trim. These motors have let go due to lean events but usually a cheap meth system has been involved. Whenever 91 octane is being used outright detonation is always a possibility...But the results of that would often entail a window in your block, clearly not the case here.

What tune are you running? By that I mean exactly what tune, I know you are MHD flash only.

*looks* like copper in your oil but hard to tell. How did the actual filter look? Open it up and take a look. Also, any loss of oil you noticed? The symptoms don't really add up to a scored bearing(s)..Smoked piston would seem more likely but as noted, that's not going to lead to subtle amounts of copper in your oil.
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      06-27-2015, 08:26 PM   #3
ferocity02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135Pats View Post
You aren't giving it full throttle so it's a bit hard to tell, but clearly you went very, very lean. Even then, were that the issue I would have expected to see the DME pull out timing and add in tons of trim. These motors have let go due to lean events but usually a cheap meth system has been involved. Whenever 91 octane is being used outright detonation is always a possibility...But the results of that would often entail a window in your block, clearly not the case here.

What tune are you running? By that I mean exactly what tune, I know you are MHD flash only.

*looks* like copper in your oil but hard to tell. How did the actual filter look? Open it up and take a look. Also, any loss of oil you noticed? The symptoms don't really add up to a scored bearing(s)..Smoked piston would seem more likely but as noted, that's not going to lead to subtle amounts of copper in your oil.
Its a custom tune from Wedge. We've been working on it for awhile (~6 months) with my Cobb and I had him convert it over to MHD. This was the first tune he did for me via MHD. This is also the first tune with inlets.

The filter itself looks clean, no metal bits to speak of. No loss of oil that I know of, oil level is good. No smoke from the exhaust either.
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      06-27-2015, 08:42 PM   #4
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Get some of that oil to Blackstone Labs, that will explain the most likely place the metal came from.
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      06-27-2015, 08:54 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335NJ View Post
Get some of that oil to Blackstone Labs, that will explain the most likely place the metal came from.
Fixing the car is probably a little more time sensitive than sending oil across the country for analysis.

Clear codes, check the VTT install, reset all adaptations, remove tune, and go from there.
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      06-27-2015, 09:36 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stangorang View Post
Fixing the car is probably a little more time sensitive than sending oil across the country for analysis.

Clear codes, check the VTT install, reset all adaptations, remove tune, and go from there.
I'm in no way saying "Send it off, don't touch the car, they'll solve all of your problems", but mystery metal isn't anything to write off, even if OP gets it running properly again.

I'd send it off, and keep on working.
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      06-27-2015, 10:25 PM   #7
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These threads scare the piss out of me. Wishing you the very best of luck in getting this sorted out quickly, OP.
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      06-27-2015, 10:42 PM   #8
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I would uncover the lean condition. What was your fuel level at? Could you have uncovered the pump pickup? That went super lean in a hurry, maybe from being on a on ramp with some lateral g force and low fuel level? Thats always a potential recipe for problems, I never like going full throttle under 1/4 tank for this reason.

Did it over rev? Perhaps a valvetrain noise? Run a compression check to see if any cylinders turn up a red flag. If you have access to a bore scope, it a pretty quick way to peak inside and check the ring lands and look for any witness marks from piston to valve interference. Sending the oil off is a great way to determine what is shedding metal internally, could be bearing material from the turbos.
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      06-27-2015, 10:46 PM   #9
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I see you have an 07. Have u changed out the bearing ledges before? If not, you prob scored it. Id change out the oil asap and run a thicker oil. I had the same shit happen after a 4th gear pull. I will never use that thin POS twinpower 5-30w oil again
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      06-27-2015, 11:04 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n54gte View Post
I see you have an 07. Have u changed out the bearing ledges before? If not, you prob scored it. Id change out the oil asap and run a thicker oil. I had the same shit happen after a 4th gear pull. I will never use that thin POS twinpower 5-30w oil again

He doesn't have the usual camshaft bearing ledge fault code, but the sound is similar to what others have posted.
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      06-27-2015, 11:09 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lcvette View Post
I would uncover the lean condition. What was your fuel level at? Could you have uncovered the pump pickup? That went super lean in a hurry, maybe from being on a on ramp with some lateral g force and low fuel level? Thats always a potential recipe for problems, I never like going full throttle under 1/4 tank for this reason.

Did it over rev? Perhaps a valvetrain noise? Run a compression check to see if any cylinders turn up a red flag. If you have access to a bore scope, it a pretty quick way to peak inside and check the ring lands and look for any witness marks from piston to valve interference. Sending the oil off is a great way to determine what is shedding metal internally, could be bearing material from the turbos.
Didn't overrev, it was under 5k rpm when it happened.

The tank was 99% full, I filled it up about 2 miles before this happened.

Will do a compression check, and bore scope if I can get one.
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      06-27-2015, 11:39 PM   #12
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my question is if you look at pedal position.

when its maxxed out at 2800 rpm why does your car call for just ~90-100 load all the way to 3900 rpm??? then suddenly it shoots up to 180 requested load

then as others pointed out it goes lean right after 4800 rpm. even your short term fuel trim just goes to 0 and doesnt go up or down at all after that.

weird stuff going on for sure.
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      06-28-2015, 12:23 AM   #13
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There is a couple of things being missed by everyone and that is understanding the DME logic ie how it reacts to certain events of a change or error

First I would like to say this is not the first time I have seen the system go lean after VTT inlets have been installed, and nor was it the VTT inlets fault. Again, it is not the VTT inlet fault or would be fault realted to any upgraded inlets

There was a change in air volume and the DME recognized it thus part of the DME's elaboret "re-adaptation" method it will lean out the fuel to adjust.

Here is an example of one of our tuned 1M cars

Before the inlets were installed everything perfectly normal

http://www.datazap.me/u/zayzay/bq93-...4-15&zoom=3-99

After inlets installed his trims go flat and AFR go extremely lean

http://www.datazap.me/u/zayzay/bq93-...14-15-16-17-20

Next day I requested that he do another log as it might be the DME re-adapting to the sudden changes in the air volume. Everything goes back to normal

http://www.datazap.me/u/zayzay/bq93-...-20&solo=14-15

So what we see in this is the DME's elaborate way of adapting to changes when it concerns anything related to the fueling system. This also happens sometimes after reseting all adaptations with INPA as the DME is re-adapting. Ive seen it myself on my own two cars.

So now let take a look of the key elements in the OP's problem:
  • HPFP normal
  • LPFP normal
  • Fuel Trims, both banks, goes flat after 4700 RPMs
  • AFR's go lean right after in both banks

So what I am seeing is the DME detected too much of something ie a change and then started to cut fueling by forcing trims to go flat, and then leans out AFRs

If anything he more likely needs to do an all adaptations reset with INPA. After a day or two same issue them more likely the following:

There are at least two injectors that are not coded correctly or are leaking bad in each bank. The only way to find them is by pulling them to check which ones it is.

Not every time you see the car go lean it means hardware failure or tuning error especially right after there was a hardware modifcation done which has a direct or indirect impact on the issue of concern.

Another thing when changing tuning platforms an error could have occured while flashing, and no one knows. Uninstall tune, run the car stock, and then reinstall, clear out all error codes and history and reset all adaptations.
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Last edited by BuraQ; 06-28-2015 at 12:37 AM.
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      06-28-2015, 12:48 AM   #14
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Thanks BQ! Very informative.

I guess there two concerns here... why did it go lean and why is it now making an evil tapping sound.
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      06-28-2015, 12:50 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferocity02 View Post
Thanks BQ! Very informative.

I guess there two concerns here... why did it go lean and why is it now making an evil tapping sound.
Blackstone labs.

In all seriousness, hopefully BQ can work some magic tuning wise and correct that.

The tapping happens suddenly(and randomly), not like a bent rod would or something, which would be from startup to shutdown. Makes me think VANOS, or something like that. I could be completely wrong, but it seems to start when something changes suddenly after 20+ seconds at idle.

Last edited by 335NJ; 06-28-2015 at 02:10 AM.
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      06-28-2015, 07:14 AM   #16
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You might think I'm crazy right now but that ticking sound on idle happens to me too and it was coming from my turbo solenoid which the dealer replaced and now it fine.

If you do enough "n54 idle ticking" searching you'll find it eventually. It sounds nasty but yeah it's not your internals knocking.

As for all the other symptoms you described like the SES, misfire and metallic shavings I have no clue. It could just be a coincidence you noticed that sound after this ordeal occurred. Like I said you might think I'm crazy
http://<a href="http://www.e90post.c...p?t=469323</a>
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1065060

Here is a few for example.

Some people just live with it
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      06-28-2015, 07:15 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335NJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferocity02 View Post
Thanks BQ! Very informative.

I guess there two concerns here... why did it go lean and why is it now making an evil tapping sound.
Blackstone labs.

In all seriousness, hopefully BQ can work some magic tuning wise and correct that.

The tapping happens suddenly(and randomly), not like a bent rod would or something, which would be from startup to shutdown. Makes me think VANOS, or something like that. I could be completely wrong, but it seems to start when something changes suddenly after 20+ seconds at idle.
Boost solenoid gets stuck bro. Mine has the same sound. It's loud and nasty

Here is another video, this user did the same remedy which was swap boost solenoid so
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      06-28-2015, 01:55 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 924er View Post
Boost solenoid gets stuck bro. Mine has the same sound. It's loud and nasty

Here is another video, this user did the same remedy which was swap boost solenoid so
my car started making this sound too after a long trip. not as bad but i can tell there's something going on. Almost sounds like a lifter tap.
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      06-28-2015, 02:04 PM   #19
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Thanks guys, I'll mess with the boost solenoids to see if that's the issue. With nearly 90k miles I might as well replace them.

Any idea why a stuck solenoid would cause such a loud tapping?

I also noticed that the typical deceleration wastegate rattle sounds a lot weirder now. I thought it might have been from the MHD anti-rattle feature but now I'm not so sure.

Last edited by ferocity02; 06-28-2015 at 02:12 PM.
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      06-28-2015, 02:07 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferocity02 View Post
Thanks guys, I'll mess with the boost solenoids to see if that's the issue. With nearly 90k miles I might as well replace them.

Any idea why a stuck solenoid would cause such a loud tapping?
My only guess would be that they mess with the vacuum going to the wastegates and that's where that tapping sound comes from..
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      06-28-2015, 03:28 PM   #21
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Op, you mind posting up the BIN file that you were running when you had this issue with the engine? We can take a look at it to see if it is an hardware or software issue.

FYI, it is near impossible to have fuel starvation due to low fuel level on this car, because the fuel pick up designs in there cars. Not unless you are literally running the car to its last liter of gas.
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      06-28-2015, 03:30 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud9blue View Post
Op, you mind posting up the BIN file that you were running when you had this issue with the engine? We can take a look at it to see if it is an hardware or software issue.
What is a BIN file?
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