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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Track results after some more tuning 12.686@108.98



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      03-11-2007, 12:51 AM   #45
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[quote=radgator1;760814]
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Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post

You have to admit that the other Procede trap speeds have been no where close to your 111 even with exhaust and DR. Maybe someone else will hit that number again but so far it looks like its going to take about a 4-7 MPH improvement in trap speed which is huge.
The 111mph i ran on the car was with the same PROcede map that everyone else is running. I just happen to have an exhaust and have run at a reasonably good track (sac raceway). There's really nothing special about the state of tune in our car as evident by the dyno results that the magazines have conducted. They are 100% in line with customer cars tested on independant dynos.

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      03-11-2007, 01:52 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by rflow View Post
Went to the track again last night and went a little faster. So far the car has AA tune, cat-back exhaust and Dr's. The current tune is for 93 octane.

Question, is your car Manual or Automatic? and... excuse my stupid question now, but what is the AA tune you are talking about?
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      03-11-2007, 09:32 AM   #47
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if you have a manual and you have run your car at the track, do u generally power shift or just granny shit?
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      03-11-2007, 09:40 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkidoo View Post
Question, is your car Manual or Automatic? and... excuse my stupid question now, but what is the AA tune you are talking about?
I have an auto.
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      03-11-2007, 10:40 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrench View Post
Also rflow has an auto and shiv's is a 6 speed, which could mean the 2mph is hiding in the gearing.

The auto IS actually running faster than the manuals.
They launch better and shift as fast (if not faster) than anybody
in a manual. Plus they have a more aggressive gearing ratio.
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      03-11-2007, 10:54 AM   #50
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[quote=Driver72;760361]

Rflow, have you tried a run on your stock (or normal street) tires with your tune??
If you haven't, you should and post those results for comparison sake too.[/
QUOTE]


Quote:
Originally Posted by radgator1 View Post
Why should he do that, to satisfy all the procede owners? Its true Shiv's car trapped 111 I believe but no other Procede car has come anywhere close to that number at the track so far, even those with an exhaust. Until one does, I dont think you can use that as much of a benchmark.

We all know the Procede makes great power and more torque than anyone else so far, but this is the fastest timeslip on a 335i period. I don't think rflow came on here to say AA's tune is better than Procede, he simply showed us the slip which speaks for itself.


Well, he should run the car without DR's not to satisfy all the PROcede owners, but to see what the car does on normal street tires.

And you are wrong about saying no PROcede car has come anywhere close to that number at the track.
My car ran a 13.0 @ 107.6 with just a PROcede tune on street tires, with no exhaust, and on 91 Octane ( I also have an auto and this was my first time drag racing an automatic car). I only did 3 runs and this time was on the third run.
With DR's, PROcede's exhaust tune, and on 93 Octane I could of easily of knocked off .5 seconds and added 3-4 mph to my traps!
I could probably knocked .2 seconds off my time with just the DR's alone.

Also, we are comparing two totally different tracks. The track I was at just got repaved too and the "regulars" there all said they are now getting .3-.4 second slower times than they did before they repaved. And Famoso here in So Cal is at 635 feet in elevation.
RFlow's track is 23 feet in elevation. Not a big difference, but still, just correcting my times to basically sea level puts me at 12.9's @ 108+ mph.

I don't want to take anything away from Rflow's times, but it's not accurate for you to come on here and say what you said.
AA's tune is putting out pretty decent numbers apparently, but the only way to really know is to do an apples to apples comparison with the PROcede on the same dyno (when they release their numbers).

Oh, and I ask EVERYONE who does runs with their cars with DR's on what they got on STREET tires.
It would be like someone posting a timeslip while using a shot of NOS.
I would be more interested in knowing what they did when they were OFF the bottle. That would be a more realistic way of knowing what kind of power their engines are REALLY putting out.

Last edited by Driver72; 03-11-2007 at 11:10 AM.
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      03-11-2007, 11:29 AM   #51
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[quote=radgator1;760661]
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Originally Posted by Driver72 View Post
Rflow's results are nice to be sure, but without an apples to apples comparison on the SAME track with equal modifications, until they release dyno numbers of their tune (HP and Torque increases over stock) we can't really say how it compares to the PROcede.

And in all fairness, Shiv's car posted a 111+ mph trap time. That would indicate Shiv's PROcede car with exhaust is making more power with 2+ mph higher trap speeds. Sure, Rflow's ET was faster, but he was also on DR's not the stock tires (that Shiv's car was on) that spin WAY too easily to get traction and get ET's in the 12's with the PROcede and exhaust tuned. And I believe Shiv's car was tested on 91 Octane tune as well, not 93.

But again, it would require the two be tested on the same track or same dyno on the same day to really know for sure.

Rflow, have you tried a run on your stock (or normal street) tires with your tune??
If you haven't, you should and post those results for comparison sake too.[/
QUOTE]


Why should he do that, to satisfy all the procede owners? Its true Shiv's car trapped 111 I believe but no other Procede car has come anywhere close to that number at the track so far, even those with an exhaust. Until one does, I dont think you can use that as much of a benchmark.

We all know the Procede makes great power and more torque than anyone else so far, but this is the fastest timeslip on a 335i period. I don't think rflow came on here to say AA's tune is better than Procede, he simply showed us the slip which speaks for itself.
Plus, getting times from running on street tires tells everyone roughly what they can expect while driving on the street. Not that many people run up to 110ish on the street, but it is still nice to know
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      03-11-2007, 11:47 AM   #52
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[quote=DrM;761691]
Quote:
Originally Posted by radgator1 View Post

Plus, getting times from running on street tires tells everyone roughly what they can expect while driving on the street. Not that many people run up to 110ish on the street, but it is still nice to know
Theres no way you can compare dirty street pavement with a groomed and rubber laid track. You want roughly? Expect at least a second slower on the street if you try launching at a light.
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      03-11-2007, 12:08 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver72 View Post
The auto IS actually running faster than the manuals.
They launch better and shift as fast (if not faster) than anybody
in a manual. Plus they have a more aggressive gearing ratio.
Yeah based upon what people have been running the auto's have been performing better. But that could be contributed to bad driving on the 6sp drivers also. The auto launches better b/c it can be more consistant if your not used to launching your car. The gearing on the auto is alot longer which is not more aggressive, and being as how rflow has taller than stock dr's his gearing is even a bit longer than most automatics.
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      03-11-2007, 12:13 PM   #54
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[quote=HyperM3;761722]
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Originally Posted by DrM View Post

Theres no way you can compare dirty street pavement with a groomed and rubber laid track. You want roughly? Expect at least a second slower on the street if you try launching at a light.
Depends on the tires. I think street tires hook better on the street than they do at a track, just my experience.
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      03-11-2007, 12:49 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrench View Post
Yeah based upon what people have been running the auto's have been performing better. But that could be contributed to bad driving on the 6sp drivers also. The auto launches better b/c it can be more consistant if your not used to launching your car. The gearing on the auto is alot longer which is not more aggressive, and being as how rflow has taller than stock dr's his gearing is even a bit longer than most automatics.
With the exception of the 5th and 6th gear the auto does not have longer gears. In fact the first 4 gears on the auto are significantly shorter than on the manual gearbox. Do you read car magazine articles at all?

Also remember, for a 1/4 mile event which you only use 1-4 gears I believe the Auto is more suitable. Here are the gear ratios:

Manual/Automatico
1ª: 8,96 y 7,76 km/h 1000rpm
2ª: 15,17 y 13,83 km/h 1000rpm
3ª: 22,98 y 21,27 km/h 1000rpm
4ª: 30,52 y 28,31 km/h 1000rpm
5ª: 36,35 y 37,32 km/h 1000rpm
6ª: 41,69 y 46,83 km/h 1000rpm


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      03-11-2007, 01:07 PM   #56
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has anyone changed the gears in their 335 yet? or is it just not needed?
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      03-11-2007, 01:44 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishFlush03 View Post
has anyone changed the gears in their 335 yet? or is it just not needed?
Ordinarily, you change the gears to get the car into the upper rpm ranges where it makes power more quickly. The 335 makes huge power starting at 1400 rpm and actually falls off at the top end.

I am not sure that adding gears would make the car faster. I suspect that you are much better off adding an LSD than "gears."
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      03-11-2007, 01:59 PM   #58
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yea that makes sense.
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      03-11-2007, 02:06 PM   #59
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High-torque cars often have tall gearing. There are vehicles that achieve 60 MPH in first gear because the torque allows for the use of the gear without the loss of time that a gear shift would take during 0-60 runs. The more torque you start with, the less likely your tires will be able to put down the power without going up in smoke. The taller gearing will help lower the torque to the road, but it's a balancing act to get good times. I would just go the LSD route for now and smoke that bridge when I get to it.
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      03-11-2007, 03:04 PM   #60
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Bmw states faster 0-60mp/h and 0-100km/h figures for MT, despite AT's gearing advantage at 1st & 2nd. From 2nd to 3rd and 4th the AT gears are tall compared to the short 2nd. The revs at 3rd begin low. MT must be quicker with proper grip and changing gears. Especially at trap speed due Mt's better whp.
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      03-11-2007, 04:56 PM   #61
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[quote=Driver72;761643][quote=Driver72;760361]

Rflow, have you tried a run on your stock (or normal street) tires with your tune??
If you haven't, you should and post those results for comparison sake too.[/
QUOTE]






Well, he should run the car without DR's not to satisfy all the PROcede owners, but to see what the car does on normal street tires.

And you are wrong about saying no PROcede car has come anywhere close to that number at the track.My car ran a 13.0 @ 107.6

107.6 is no where near 111. Not sure what was wrong about that.


With DR's, PROcede's exhaust tune, and on 93 Octane I could of easily of knocked off .5 seconds and added 3-4 mph to my traps!

What's excalmation point for? To show how ridiculous you sound? I would think if anyone would know how worthless it is to talk about what you could easily run it would be the group that went to the track with CEA. His car did have DR and an exhaust and your car did have 93 octane in it. By this point you have to realize no one cares AT ALL what you think you could run, what have you run? Like I said rflow's slip is in a league of its own currently both in ET and Trap speed so please STFU about how you would have run a 12.5@111.7. If you think you can do it then do it and post the slip, but for all that is holy stop talking about coulda/woulda.



Oh, and I ask EVERYONE who does runs with their cars with DR's on what they got on STREET tires.
It would be like someone posting a timeslip while using a shot of NOS.


Totally silly statement. Tires dont add WHP. So far we have seen no good evidence that DR are making a big difference but if you think they are the end all get some rather than telling others not to use them.



Overall I was very impressed with your run considering it was in an auto (which I have). But no matter how you want to spin it rflow's car is the current record holder. That may or may not hold up. That is the only point I was making.
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      03-11-2007, 05:38 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radgator1
107.6 is no where near 111. Not sure what was wrong about that.
The 107.6mph was done with a totally stock Steptronic'd car on a crummy track vs. the 111mph from my 6MT car running an upgraded exhaust (with 2 cat bypasses) on a decent track. Considering that I had a couple of bad runs in the 109-110mph range tells me that there isn't much difference in there. I don't think Rflow's car makes any less power than mine under similar conditions. It boils down to external variables and some luck. FWIW, we've always made roughly the same high rpm power with the PROcede as we did with the Xede so I dont think there is any reason to get too hung up with trap speed comparisons.

-shiv
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      03-11-2007, 05:56 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
The 107.6mph was done with a totally stock Steptronic'd car on a crummy track vs. the 111mph from my 6MT car running an upgraded exhaust (with 2 cat bypasses) on a decent track. Considering that I had a couple of bad runs in the 109-110mph range tells me that there isn't much difference in there. I don't think Rflow's car makes any less power than mine under similar conditions. It boils down to external variables and some luck. FWIW, we've always made roughly the same high rpm power with the PROcede as we did with the Xede so I dont think there is any reason to get too hung up with trap speed comparisons.
-shiv
Agreed. I doubt that AA is making more power than your Procede. But crossing the finish line first, and ET is what determines the winner at the track and rflow/AA have the current bragging rights, it's as simple as that.
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      03-11-2007, 05:59 PM   #64
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Quote:
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Agreed. I doubt that AA is making more power than your Procede. But crossing the finish line first, and ET is what determines the winner at the track and rflow/AA have the current bragging rights, it's as simple as that.
That's totally cool with me. Especially if they using the tuning system we developed and set up AA has been in the business of boosting BMW for years. I'll be honored if, if fact, they chose to continue where we left off.

-shiv
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      03-11-2007, 06:44 PM   #65
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Quote:
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Agreed. I doubt that AA is making more power than your Procede. But crossing the finish line first, and ET is what determines the winner at the track and rflow/AA have the current bragging rights, it's as simple as that.
Right now, AA has nothing but Vaporware.

If and when we see real customer cars and something we can order, there is no AA other than perhaps a custom one-of.
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      03-11-2007, 07:30 PM   #66
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oh shit thats fast
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