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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Custom Internals



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      04-01-2011, 10:50 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Handsome_Rob View Post
It all depends on price of course, and bang for the buck. If Gavin gets his FI kit completed and it gives 300 reliable HP for 6-8K, wouldn't that be more cost effective than pulling the motor apart and swapping out internals? I'm all for your project so please don't take that as a knock on your idea. Hell, I've wondered why we couldn't replace our blocks with the M54B30. Just a thought.
Oh no I don't take it as a knock. I would rather hear that than "swap it" "get a 335" "get a diesel." I would love the FI kit too. This will probably be a while before that I do this anyhow. But I wanted to hear peoples opinions on it. If Gavin can get the FI project up and running I might still build the internals and just suit them more for a boosted application.
I haven't paid attention to what type of FI he is doing is it going to be a supercharger or a turbo?

Cosworth and Wiseco are the names that come to mind when I think about good internals. I thought about stroking it to a 3.2 like the s54.
Cosworth quoted me around 1200 for the piston set and needed to hear back from the UK on cams, rods, springs, and a crank.

Maybe someone in Europe can call since they are asleep when I am awake.


Birdbrain, there has to be a slight room for improvement. I say this because that there are many different stages of porting. Not that I would do the extreme race because that is made for all high end power but there are a few different port styles and you could always go bigger on the valve sizing too.

But would the port job be worth the $ IDK.
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      04-01-2011, 11:16 AM   #24
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OMG subscribed. Would love to see an N52 with an 8k redline.
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      04-01-2011, 11:17 AM   #25
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I think a co. called winter tuning or something in europe already has a stroker kit to 3.2 by simply changing rods/pistons and crank. perhaps cams too. It was like 12k and expensive but they have the software to go along with it as well as they include an exhaust that is designed for the system.

It takes a n52 engine to 310hp crank which is pretty much e46 m3 territory. If you could find someone locally who you know who would do the work for you and gather parts that would be cheaper but tuning this will be nearly impsosible unless you have some serious experienced tuners.
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      04-01-2011, 01:36 PM   #26
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I think a co. called winter tuning or something in europe already has a stroker kit to 3.2 by simply changing rods/pistons and crank. perhaps cams too. It was like 12k and expensive but they have the software to go along with it as well as they include an exhaust that is designed for the system.

It takes a n52 engine to 310hp crank which is pretty much e46 m3 territory. If you could find someone locally who you know who would do the work for you and gather parts that would be cheaper but tuning this will be nearly impsosible unless you have some serious experienced tuners.
That's actually interesting. At least someone has done this before. I found a tuner that seems rather reputable. they are not on the forums but all they do is BMW. They actually have a tuner for our car that works like the cobb access port. They can custom tune the car to whatever you have. I spoke with the tech on the phone and he said with a big change like the internals they would just need the car for a few days to get it right.

Does anyone have the specs on our rods? Cosworth was asking if I had that. They need center to center, big end bore, wrist pin bore and the width of the big end.

Last edited by berserkerx; 04-01-2011 at 02:18 PM.
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      04-02-2011, 12:41 AM   #27
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This is all I've been able to find so far.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...oDyc-Q&cad=rja
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      04-02-2011, 02:01 AM   #28
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Wow I have actually learned a lot about the N52 on this quest. We have no throttle body, we have hollow camshafts, and BMW has done a lot of work to lighten other engine internals. Do I believe I could still get better with aftermarket yeah. Lol the hollow camshafts might be tough to top on weight savings. Lol unless I do something like this.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1575817

Edit at lleastI have been seeing many times that we don't have a throttle body. But I am sure I remember seeing one under the hood. Could be crazy though.

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      04-02-2011, 05:58 AM   #29
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berserker send me a message with your questions and the phone number to call. Who I will be talking to and I will make that phone call for you.
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      04-03-2011, 11:51 PM   #30
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Okay so Cosworth sent me the information on the internals.

I didn't ask them about a crank I could ask them but as for pistons and rods the prices would be

$1500 a set for the pistons

and roughly $1400 for the rods.

But the rods could be more expensive depending on the length and the strength that we want.

Drivetrain is not going to happen. They would need a new forging for it and they would be too expensive. They don't plan on stocking them as a shelf item so they don't want to spend the R&D on it.

So thats what Cosworth can do for us? We can still do other companies for everything. I can get Wiseco and K1 to make the pistons, possibly crank and rods. Ferrea and Kelford can do the drivetrain. I just need to get in contact with Kelford lol. Can anyone call New Zealand?

Micah I see that you live in Germany. I sent you the info for the people in Germany but could you contact them?

I found out I do have international calling but the times don't work out lol.
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      04-04-2011, 12:06 AM   #31
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I can try to get in touch with Schrick and see what their deal is as to why we haven't seen cams from them yet.

EDIT: Sent them an email. Will update with their response, if any.
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Last edited by AlpineSwift; 04-04-2011 at 12:17 AM.
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      04-04-2011, 02:52 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpineSwift View Post
I can try to get in touch with Schrick and see what their deal is as to why we haven't seen cams from them yet.

EDIT: Sent them an email. Will update with their response, if any.
They have cams in stock, both intake and exhaust. They are 450 euros each, but they are mirrors of the stock cams.

Custom grinds are possible but will cost you 1k more PER cam, I would assume they would do a batch of custom grinds for less, however I did not ask.

I had to email noelle. I would expect a response back within the day. He thought I wanted to buy the striker kit.....
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      04-04-2011, 12:12 PM   #33
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Does anyone happen to know the specs on the stock cams? I personally would go with a 272 cam if I wanted to move my redline up and keep good low end as well. I mean kelford can also do shop work and look into the cam specs for 50 dollars and give you their reccomendations on what they believe will work.

Thanks for calling Noelle and Schrick Micah. Schrick might do as you said and would do a group buy kinda thing if we give them the information. They could possibly do everything else too as far as the internals are concerned.
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      04-04-2011, 12:19 PM   #34
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This is a very exciting project. Best of luck to you gents.
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      04-04-2011, 02:09 PM   #35
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side question/note: how did Bimmerworld extract 300hp out of their e90 325i touring race car?
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      04-04-2011, 04:21 PM   #36
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Quote:
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side question/note: how did Bimmerworld extract 300hp out of their e90 325i touring race car?
Bimmerworld has only ever used a 328i IIRC.

And they only got it to 255hp..
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      04-04-2011, 05:24 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guerilla twang View Post
Bimmerworld has only ever used a 328i IIRC.

And they only got it to 255hp..
I may be wrong on the model 325i vs 328i, but here's the link:

www.bimmerworld.com/cars_for_sale.php

2.5L N52 Sunbelt race engine, approximately 300hp
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      04-04-2011, 06:29 PM   #38
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Okay I called Kelford and they will be willing to do a spec sheet for us. I just don't have all the information that they need.

They themselves suggested Schrick cams. That is the second time that I have been told to try Schrick so thats most likely who we should go with for cams.

Can you call Schrick again Micah and ask if a group buy thing will help the price on the cams?

This is slowly coming together lol.

I also got in contact with the people who did the sunbelt motor by email. So we will see if what they say.
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      04-05-2011, 05:14 AM   #39
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They will do a group buy. Basically the set up cost would be spread out across however many people bought. So if 10 or more bought in then the price would come down significantly per person.
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      04-05-2011, 10:41 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubbedown View Post
I may be wrong on the model 325i vs 328i, but here's the link:

www.bimmerworld.com/cars_for_sale.php

2.5L N52 Sunbelt race engine, approximately 300hp
That is awesome! There is hope for us yet.
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      04-05-2011, 10:46 AM   #41
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I have a friend that is good pals with James Clay from Bimmerworld. Would you guys be interested in hearing about what exactly is done to that 2.5L motor?
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      04-05-2011, 10:59 AM   #42
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Some information would always be appreciated guerilla.
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      04-05-2011, 11:18 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guerilla twang View Post
That is awesome! There is hope for us yet.
You just have to remember though race car engines are always torn down and rebuilt after each race.


Quote:
Originally Posted by guerilla twang View Post
I have a friend that is good pals with James Clay from Bimmerworld. Would you guys be interested in hearing about what exactly is done to that 2.5L motor?
Only thing I could fnid on the Sunbelt motor:

http://www.kssmotorsports.com/sunbelt/about_us.aspx
http://www.kssmotorsports.com/sunbelt/services.aspx

and their 2nd link (www.saidheadperformance.com) is dead.

But with that said, I'm sure James could provide some valuable technical info...
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      04-05-2011, 11:20 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berserkerx View Post
Wow I have actually learned a lot about the N52 on this quest. We have no throttle body,

Edit at leastI have been seeing many times that we don't have a throttle body. But I am sure I remember seeing one under the hood. Could be crazy though.

There is a traditional style throttle body. I've held mine in my hands, so I know.


Also, the head isn't ported from the factory, it is however machined (not cast), so the ports are already very smooth (no casting seams or rough textures inside). They are also pretty much a straight shot from the manifold to the bowl (which is good). There could be improvements made to the bowl area, and also some chamber work, like deshrouding the valve area, but I haven't gotten a good look at what the chamber looks like. Larger valves would also be an option.


As far as the bimmerworld race car, they say "approximately 300hp" which could mean many things. They are probably estimating crank hp, so that would be about 250whp (or less) depending on how loose you use the word "approximately"
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