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      04-17-2017, 06:17 AM   #1
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Throttle closures with mhd- advice please.

I recently upgraded to stage2+ and haven't been able to log until I replaced my clutch. I done this on my drive in the end (wasn't too bad a job).

Done a couple of logs this morning, and it appears I have quite a lot of throttle closure at the start of the log, presumably caused by overboosting?

I see wgdc spikes straight up to 100% as soon as I go wot, so am presuming the map must be written this way.

To get to the point, are the closures a characteristic of the map or some other issue? While you're looking, if you wouldn't mind giving me a second opinion on the log it would be appreciated. To me it doesn't look too bad apart from the closures.

http://www.datazap.me/u/speedychuck/...31&zoom=80-123
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      04-17-2017, 07:18 AM   #2
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I was having similar issues on stage 2. yet to log on stage 2+ but it definitively feels like a much more sorted tune.

throttle closures are as a result of overboosting
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      04-17-2017, 01:18 PM   #3
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Check your boost mean parameters, you can see the overboosting from it. I have same problem and i get 30fe code usually when i do full wot..
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      04-17-2017, 01:53 PM   #4
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What's likely to be the cause? Is there anything I can do about it? I'm not getting 30fe, but I don't want that to become a problem either. It doesn't look right. Can't help but feel the wgdc shooting to 100 is the cause, but this will be written into the map won't it?
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      04-17-2017, 05:40 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedychuck2
What's likely to be the cause? Is there anything I can do about it? I'm not getting 30fe, but I don't want that to become a problem either. It doesn't look right. Can't help but feel the wgdc shooting to 100 is the cause, but this will be written into the map won't it?
it's normal PID control. The factory tune has hard limits/a cap on wgdc to prevent this (my understanding from limited reading). looking at my old logs looks like this is around 75% wgdc

if you want to fix it you need a custom tune.

boost control looks like the most difficult part of the tune to get right.

FWIW adding downpipes to the stock tune will give you throttle closures as well (to a lesser extent however) as the pid is setup for having the cat restriction.
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      04-18-2017, 02:57 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by titium View Post
it's normal PID control. The factory tune has hard limits/a cap on wgdc to prevent this (my understanding from limited reading). looking at my old logs looks like this is around 75% wgdc

if you want to fix it you need a custom tune.

boost control looks like the most difficult part of the tune to get right.

FWIW adding downpipes to the stock tune will give you throttle closures as well (to a lesser extent however) as the pid is setup for having the cat restriction.
Thanks for this info. With the old electronic boost control I used to use years ago, I would simply have reduced the gain to stop the overboost occurring.

So is everybody else with mhd stage2+ Suffering with the same problem? I don't have inlets but I do have downpipes, which is surely what the tune was written for?

Perhaps I should just fork out for inlets/outlets and get a custom tune written.
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      04-18-2017, 03:15 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedychuck2
Thanks for this info. With the old electronic boost control I used to use years ago, I would simply have reduced the gain to stop the overboost occurring.

So is everybody else with mhd stage2+ Suffering with the same problem? I don't have inlets but I do have downpipes, which is surely what the tune was written for?

Perhaps I should just fork out for inlets/outlets and get a custom tune written.
yep except now days the 'gain'/PID controller is adjusted in the tune itself and is a little more complicated to get right.

Custom tune or writing your own tune (takes alot of reading to work out what you're? doing) is the way to go.
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      04-18-2017, 08:09 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by titium View Post
yep except now days the 'gain'/PID controller is adjusted in the tune itself and is a little more complicated to get right.

Custom tune or writing your own tune (takes alot of reading to work out what you're? doing) is the way to go.
Sounds like I need to bury my head in some books. So I have somewhere to begin and am using the right software, what software is used to modify/write maps on the n54? I take it there must be a few maps floating about as a starting point?
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      04-18-2017, 08:48 AM   #9
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Did you reset adaptations after the flash?
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      04-18-2017, 02:00 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by dyezak View Post
Did you reset adaptations after the flash?
No I didn't. I asked martial about this and he said the car should be left to adapt gradually for itself.
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      04-18-2017, 05:25 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedychuck2
Quote:
Originally Posted by titium View Post
yep except now days the 'gain'/PID controller is adjusted in the tune itself and is a little more complicated to get right.

Custom tune or writing your own tune (takes alot of reading to work out what you're? doing) is the way to go.
Sounds like I need to bury my head in some books. So I have somewhere to begin and am using the right software, what software is used to modify/write maps on the n54? I take it there must be a few maps floating about as a starting point?
stock map is a good starting point, all mhd maps are locked.

Tuner pro and this link will help, in particular have a read of the excel doc for the basics

https://github.com/dmacpro91/BMW-XDFs

you're basically modifiying the tables in the stock dme with tuner pro.

the xdf files tell tuner pro where to find each parameter in the bin file which gets flashed in the dme.
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      04-18-2017, 07:04 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedychuck2 View Post
Sounds like I need to bury my head in some books. So I have somewhere to begin and am using the right software, what software is used to modify/write maps on the n54? I take it there must be a few maps floating about as a starting point?
Yo speedy, i can go on and on on pid tuning. Obviously your turbos are very healthy and spool great. Im not sure what adders are on that map, but they need to be reduced. Also wgdc limit can be reduced in your case. Will warn you, once you start your own tuning it kinda becomes addictive fun tho
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      04-19-2017, 04:47 AM   #13
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Thanks guys. The link to the document that explains so much is really helpful. I'm going to get a copy of tuner pro and have a play. It's a real shame that the ots maps are locked, especially for a novice like me. I'm more than happy with the rest of the map and am not knowledgeable enough just yet to make my own map from scratch, but could probably learn enough to modify boost parameters to stop the spikes. Instead of this, I will have to start from the bottom.

The car only has 62k miles on, and the turbos have been replaced at least once in the cars lifetime by BMW. I have no wastegate rattle, so I guess it all stacks up that they boost well, just a bit too well by the look of things.

Am I right in thinking everything else on the log looks pretty good? Possibly a slight injector leak on bank 1 as it takes a little longer to go lean than bank 2? Minor corrections but nothing to worry about (I replaced plugs about 1k miles ago) afr's look ok, fuel trims not too bad either. Wgdc is not overly high.

ive been using mhd for over a year now and have read the -massive- thread from start to finish, I've picked up a lot of very good knowledge on the way, but a second set of eyes is always appreciated.

Thanks
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      12-14-2017, 07:32 AM   #14
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Old thread i know but did you have any luck in tuning this yourself?

Thanks
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      01-10-2018, 11:05 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedychuck2 View Post
Thanks for this info. With the old electronic boost control I used to use years ago, I would simply have reduced the gain to stop the overboost occurring.

So is everybody else with mhd stage2+ Suffering with the same problem? I don't have inlets but I do have downpipes, which is surely what the tune was written for?

Perhaps I should just fork out for inlets/outlets and get a custom tune written.
Ever since I got inlets and outlets... tuning has been nonstop and still going...so that will not make your life easier in terms of throttle closures. On my 2nd tuning compny now...so far progress is slow but sure.

Let me know when and how you fixed your closure issues.
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      01-11-2018, 08:52 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matreyia View Post
Ever since I got inlets and outlets... tuning has been nonstop and still going...so that will not make your life easier in terms of throttle closures. On my 2nd tuning compny now...so far progress is slow but sure.

Let me know when and how you fixed your closure issues.
Was the first even trying to get rid of it? It won't be completely resolved in 1-2 revisions, especially when temps swing from 25 to 70F to 35F in the course of a day/week, but the changes needed to reduce/eliminate it are pretty basic.
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