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      04-03-2011, 10:51 PM   #1
jzepeda
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Dinan Stage 2 vs Cobb Stage 1 - Review

I will first like to start off I have no relationship other than customer to any of these companies I had no sponsorship this will be done on my dime. I will state personal experience with both tunes. I am by no means a tuner are race car driver, just an everyday guy looking to see what I can do next on my car. I we also try to get the GIAC tune to compare to both Dinan and Cobb.


First some info:
Car - 07 335i e92, car has 49,5XX miles and the Turbos were Warranty replaced 4,000 miles ago, 3rd HPFP, 2 injectors and just got the oil filter housing gaskets replaced 4 days ago.

Upgrades - Dinan CAI, Forge DV, BMW Performance Exhaust.


Reason for upgrading: The Car is out of the 4 year 50,000 warranty but I do have a CPO warranty up to 100,000. The car has been Dinan tuned for about 3 years now. NEVER had a problem. I want to add more power to the car. since my free service is done and I will be taking it to an independent shop for maintenance I have decided to add a couple of things to make the car even better.


Cobb installation was a nightmare for the first go around, I posted this already on another thread so I'm just going to copy it here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzepeda View Post
Got the Cobb AP yesterday and after about an hour of cursing and bitching I finally got it to work. Just a side note when doing the install I highly recommend doing it during the week during Cobb business hours. in case you run into a problem, I on the other hand installed it on a Friday night and I was about to leave my car at local shop because I couldn't get it to work and no tech support until Monday...

I'm putting together some Dyno sheets as well as my experience with installation and the tune comparison between my Dinan stg 2 vs Cobb AP. just wanted to put some of what happen on here.

I was also running a Dinan Stage 2 flash prior to install. my guess this is why I was having issues.
once updated I plugged the Cobb into the car, it start dumping my rom but of course failed. I was aware of this since I talked to Cobb before hand, so moving on. After the error I tried to flash the tune. after about 2% it stopped. it went into a recovery mode. followed the display prompts and started it again. again after 2% failed Communication error. ok shut everything off and tried again and again and again.... at this point the car will not start of course. oh I forgot to mention once it started the flash the car was acting weird. the wipers were going off and my car kept beeping (Door tone sound). i walked away from the car cursing. cooled down, took the Cobb to my computer and double checked it was updated. everything came back ok. I tried once again. after the 3rd time the Cobb started the recovery process it got to about 90% and failed. started again right after and it finally completed. once this was resolved I flash 91 map took about 8min and the car was ready. took it out for a drive and gave it about a good 15 mile run before pulling on it. felt nice, first thought was power feels very similar to Dinan stg 2 but picks up better and holds longer and the dyno pretty much shows it. I will create a thread with all the info.

Thanks,
Jorge

EDIT**** Adding in a video of my attempt to uninstall



now for the results:

Due to some issues I did not get the boost read outs for Dinan sorry.

Run 4 is the Dinan and Run 10 is the Cobb. I will post a better Dyno pic once I figure out how to use the software.



power number are:
Dinan Stg 2 - 305 hp 321 tq
Cobb Stg 1 - 319 hp 323 tq

As you can see Cobb holds boost pretty well throughout the power band and is pushing about 50 hp/tq more around 6500 rpm.
Dinan very smooth tune but really conservative and pulls back boost quickly. The Dinan tune is great very smooth power and for Daily driving was perfect. Cobb tune is a bit more aggressive nothing crazy but you notice right away. boost comes on strong and holds very well through the power band. I was not thrilled about the throttle sensitivity but as I read and other people have commented it can be tuned out. it's only been a couple of days so i'll let you know in a few day how the Cobb acts in my daily commute.

Last edited by jzepeda; 04-13-2011 at 01:15 AM.
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      04-04-2011, 08:19 AM   #2
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the Cobb must pull much harder up top. Dinan seems to fall on its face after 5700rpms which is quite poor.
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      04-04-2011, 09:58 AM   #3
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the Cobb must pull much harder up top. Dinan seems to fall on its face after 5700rpms which is quite poor.
On the road short shifting just before 5500 RP on MT or 5000 RPM on AT(AMT) will make up for this.

You have to know the sweet spot on each tune. The strong point on the Dinan is knowing when to shift. You cannot equally compare RPM shift points between the tunes then conclude one pulls harder than the other because its boost in RPM is longer.

Dinan does die off on boost at 5500 RPM and Cobb continues to 6500 RPM. Like the OP said Dinan is more conservative. The catch here is when Dinan or Cobb is shifting where does the PSI on the boost pick up at ? Get my point now ? I am sure I will get a different graph if I was driving the Dinan tune cause I know when to shift and I know how it picks back up.

The buttom line here is to see these two tunes race a 1/4 mile, of course though with me driving the Dinan tuned car :-D

Dont get me wroing here, I will be going the Cobb route after my Dinan S3 when I have another car :-D
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Last edited by BuraQ; 04-04-2011 at 10:06 AM.
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      04-04-2011, 10:07 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuraQ View Post
On the road short shifting just before 5500 RP on MT or 5000 RPM on AT(AMT) will make up for this.

You have to know the sweet spot on each tune. The strong point on the Dinan is knowing when to shift. You cannot equally compare RPM shift points between the tunes then conclude one pulls harder than the other because its boost in RPM is longer.

Dinan does die off on boost at 5500 RPM and Cobb continues to 6500 RPM. Like the OP said Dinan is more conservative. The catch here is when Dinan or Cobb is shifting where does the PSI on the boost pick up at ? Get my point now ? I am sure I will get a different graph if I was driving the Dinan tune cause I know when to shift and I know how it picks back up.
The buttom line here is to see these two tunes race a 1/4 mile, of course though with me driving the Dinan tuned car :-D

Dont get me wroing here, I will be going the Cobb route after my Dinan S3 when I have another car :-D
You don't shift to do a dyno pull. Graph wouldn't change - dynos are single gear pulls...
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      04-04-2011, 10:11 AM   #5
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You don't shift to do a dyno pull. Graph wouldn't change - dynos are single gear pulls...
Sorry, I was talking about on road runs.
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      04-04-2011, 10:36 AM   #6
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You have a CPO warranty with a Dinan tune? I didn't think BMW would honor an extended warranty once Dinan was the primary warrantor of the engine?
I do, yes. I just had another ignition coil replaced with no problems and I have 76k miles on my car. I only had to pay the CPO deductible.
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      04-04-2011, 11:16 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuraQ View Post
Sorry, I was talking about on road runs.
I know what you are saying about short shifting, but honestly that will not help you be faster than the Cobb tuned car based upon the above dyno.

you shouldnt need to short shift a car by over 1500rpms.....
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      04-04-2011, 11:20 AM   #8
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cobb >>> dinan

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      04-04-2011, 11:21 AM   #9
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I had the exact same problems flashing my car, with it dropping at 2%, then 99%, and it finally went through the 3rd time. I had to turn off the car completely, take my fob and AP out, and sit for about 30 seconds for the car to be completely off. It would then work after all this. Scared the crap out of me, and I'm kind of afraid to switch maps right now. Talking to Rob@Cobb he said it could be my battery (07 on original battery). I've never had any problems with my battery before and it works perfect so I'll prob go and get it tested and see how it's holding up.
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      04-04-2011, 11:25 AM   #10
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Quote:
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I know what you are saying about short shifting, but honestly that will not help you be faster than the Cobb tuned car based upon the above dyno.

you shouldnt need to short shift a car by over 1500rpms.....
u just run out of gears faster lol
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      04-04-2011, 11:42 AM   #11
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u just run out of gears faster lol
Doubt either car would get pass 5th gear on a 1/4 run
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      04-04-2011, 11:55 AM   #12
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Dinan is weak but warranty def makes up for it, wish at least GIAC was with warranty
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      04-04-2011, 12:36 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxnix View Post
You have a CPO warranty with a Dinan tune? I didn't think BMW would honor an extended warranty once Dinan was the primary warrantor of the engine?
Car was bought used with CPO warranty I added the Dinan tune 2 weeks after purchase.


Dinan has held up to it's end of the bargain for me, it is not as strong as others but is no slouch by any means. it feels great for daily driving and never gave me a blip of an issue in the 3 years of running it. not to mention my dealer replaced every part that has failed. I had one conflict with the dealer delaying work and that was for the turbo replacment. I called Dan at Dinan they started working on the car the next day.
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      04-04-2011, 01:12 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jzepeda View Post
Car was bought used with CPO warranty I added the Dinan tune 2 weeks after purchase.


Dinan has held up to it's end of the bargain for me, it is not as strong as others but is no slouch by any means. it feels great for daily driving and never gave me a blip of an issue in the 3 years of running it. not to mention my dealer replaced every part that has failed. I had one conflict with the dealer delaying work and that was for the turbo replacment. I called Dan at Dinan they started working on the car the next day.
^ and thats the only reason people buy Dinan. Their products are not superior, at least on the n54, but the warranty is certainly a nice bonus.
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      04-04-2011, 02:14 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael1284 View Post
I had the exact same problems flashing my car, with it dropping at 2%, then 99%, and it finally went through the 3rd time. I had to turn off the car completely, take my fob and AP out, and sit for about 30 seconds for the car to be completely off. It would then work after all this. Scared the crap out of me, and I'm kind of afraid to switch maps right now. Talking to Rob@Cobb he said it could be my battery (07 on original battery). I've never had any problems with my battery before and it works perfect so I'll prob go and get it tested and see how it's holding up.
My guess is that this is the problem. I had a few troubles flashing mine after i had unflashed it. Turns out the battery was weak. If it gets bad, hook up jumper cables to another running car or get a battery charger. Ultimately, I got a new battery under warranty. No problems after that at all.
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      04-04-2011, 06:24 PM   #16
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My car was hooked up to a battery charger during the time of Cobb flash. I actually flash my car at EAS right after we ran the Dinan Dyno pulls. Took it off to the side hooked up the charger they use for their GIAC flashes, at one point I even asked Steve if I could just flash it to GIAC if I couldn't get it to work but in the end I was able to get it to load. I talked to Chris form cobb and it seems to be very few people they heard of this happening to. He will try to get back to me in a few days at this point I will test the cobb's other tunes and let you know what I find.

on another note, the car seems to be running good but I am noticing my oil temps have been a bit higher then when I was running Dinan. Dinan I was running around 230-240, Cobb seems to sit around 240-250. I feel the car idling better and deceleration seems to be smoother than Dinan. I am still not found of the throttle sensitivity and I don't like the half throttle surges it give me either, feels like I mashed on the gas pedal. but I'm also adjusting to the tune myself so we will see. I will probably contact them and see if I can get a tune with a less aggressive pedal calibration.

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      04-04-2011, 06:44 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuraQ View Post
On the road short shifting just before 5500 RP on MT or 5000 RPM on AT(AMT) will make up for this.

You have to know the sweet spot on each tune. The strong point on the Dinan is knowing when to shift. You cannot equally compare RPM shift points between the tunes then conclude one pulls harder than the other because its boost in RPM is longer.

Dinan does die off on boost at 5500 RPM and Cobb continues to 6500 RPM. Like the OP said Dinan is more conservative.
When I had the Dinan S2 tune, it was a waste to not shift at 6k for sure. As the OP said - ZERO issues with Dinan - that part is nice.

BUT.... now I have the DPs, FMIC, DCI and the procede.... I have completely wasted 3 years to wait for the car to come out of warranty. The car is a flippin BEAST now. I should have put 2400 (took 150 bucks to remove Dinan) into the mods I have now. In retrospect, this would have been a better route.
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      04-04-2011, 07:39 PM   #18
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Interesting comparison/viewpoints. I'm impressed with Cobb. Since I'm not a street racer, and I am also a CPO onwer, I'll stick with Dinan S2 as it's been trouble-free and provides more than ample power, not to mention zero problems with the Dealer. With only 30K on the clock, and the car's title free and clear, I'll probably hang on to it for another few years. But the 335is sure is tempting...
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      04-04-2011, 07:46 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuraQ View Post
On the road short shifting just before 5500 RP on MT or 5000 RPM on AT(AMT) will make up for this.

You have to know the sweet spot on each tune. The strong point on the Dinan is knowing when to shift. You cannot equally compare RPM shift points between the tunes then conclude one pulls harder than the other because its boost in RPM is longer.

Dinan does die off on boost at 5500 RPM and Cobb continues to 6500 RPM. Like the OP said Dinan is more conservative. The catch here is when Dinan or Cobb is shifting where does the PSI on the boost pick up at ? Get my point now ? I am sure I will get a different graph if I was driving the Dinan tune cause I know when to shift and I know how it picks back up.

The buttom line here is to see these two tunes race a 1/4 mile, of course though with me driving the Dinan tuned car :-D

Dont get me wroing here, I will be going the Cobb route after my Dinan S3 when I have another car :-D
The Cobb will make more average power in its powerband overtime.
The idea of shifting early on a Dinan would simply just be the most ideal way of getting the most out of it. It will still fall short in the end.
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      04-04-2011, 07:47 PM   #20
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Quote:
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the Cobb must pull much harder up top. Dinan seems to fall on its face after 5700rpms which is quite poor.
You would expect this since Dinan tapers boost at high RPM to save wear.

It's not like Dinan doesn't know their tune is conservative. Lots of people like to bash their tune, but it's purposely tuned this way for longevity and to ease stress on the turbos. People make it sound like Dinan is puzzled their tune doesn't produce dyno queen numbers. They aren't.

Dinan isn't going for the most power. They have a good balance of reliability, warranty, power, and customer service after sale. It's expensive, but you do get something for that extra money. I'd rather NOT have a JB3, Procede or other tune that doesn't want to match warranty and is too aggressive for my tastes.
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      04-05-2011, 12:02 PM   #21
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^^^^ Agree^^^^

If there is any tune, other than Dinan, that would be worthy in my eyes it would be Cobb, no doubt, to go on my car.

Until I get another car, no other tune will touch it. My goal is Dinan S3, and even after this Dinan is suppose to have something in the custom field available upon request. They know the car very well.

By that time Cobb should have already worked out all the sticks and stones with their AP software.

Waste of money ? No, its only a waste of money to those who have regrets or who are unsatisfied.
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RENNtech Tuning: 11.78 ET @ 116 Mph in 1/4 mile YouTube
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      04-05-2011, 12:09 PM   #22
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Quote:
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^^^^ Agree^^^^

If there is any tune, other than Dinan, that would be worthy in my eyes it would be Cobb, no doubt, to go on my car.

Until I get another car, no other tune will touch it. My goal is Dinan S3, and even after this Dinan is suppose to have something in the custom field available upon request. They know the car very well.

By that time Cobb should have already worked out all the sticks and stones with their AP software.

Waste of money ? No, its only a waste of money to those who have regrets or who are unsatisfied.
I agree with this sentiment. However, if I were to go back and do it again, I would probably get GIAC or COBB instead of spending all the money I did on my car. Actually, if I were to to back and do it again, I'd just buy the M3 to start off with.

Now I feel locked into my car and into Dinan because I've spent so much money ($10k with OC, IC, CAI, S3 software -- about to spend another $2k on Exhaust and $2.5k on suspension). Honestly, I think Dinan Stage 3 will outperform COBB.

I saw that some guy with the Cobb tune posted a dyno graph from Secret Services Auto here in Houston. Late next week (after my Exhaust is installed) I'll take my car to Secret Services Auto and that way we can compare a Dinan Stage 3 to a COBB on the same dyno. Sound good to everyone?
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