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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > we need to fight for our right to have an air-to-oil cooler!!!



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      03-15-2007, 02:58 PM   #23
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The Oil Cooler is supposed to be on ALL 6mt Sport Package equipped cars (from my reading). It appears on SOME 6at Sport Package cars (there is STILL some debate on this part).

BMW itself does not have it's act together, as I just got off the phone with them. According to the person I talked with, NO 6at cars are supposed to have the oil cooler, not even ones produced after 12/01/06.

The plot thickens...
-Adam
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      03-15-2007, 03:13 PM   #24
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can someone please confirm that this is the case only for SOME AT cars. I have a 6mt looked for the oil cooler but couldn't seem to find it (granted i didn't look very hard)

thanks
All MT cars should have it. I have not seen a report from anyone who doesnt.
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      03-15-2007, 03:19 PM   #25
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You guys are hilarious in your defense of BMW. Only a specific set of cars between certain dates didn't get the cooler. They re-added it in December; that says to me the car needs it. Not only that, but when contacted they are telling customers that *all* ZSP cars have it, which is clearly not true. As for this having a "significant" effect; there have been 4 known reports of overheating 335i's, all 4 involved automatic cars with no oil cooler. Do the math.

I don't see this oil cooler as "it's my right", I see it as, at this point, something BMW should offer as a courtesy to those of us with AT and ZSP. The cars should have it, they don't. The number of cars effected is not large, and the retrofit is not expensive; so it makes little sense to me to have customers who feel ripped off.

Pasting a list of features and saying since it isn't on there it isn't included is absurd. I don't see "gas cap" on there, or "front windshield"...
picus,

I am not defending BMW.

I hope that you and everyone else that wants the cooler gets the retrofit kit. I think that it would be a good PR move on BMW's part. It likely depends upon the cost of the kit and the installation time required.

I am simply saying that BMW isn't REQUIRED (legally) to give the retrofit kit to you or anyone else. A manufacturer is permitted to make minor production changes without providing those changes to customers who previously purchased that product.

The thing that should worry everyone is the rumor that the engines have a design flaw where the #5 and #6 cylinder overheat and BMW is introducing a design change in the engine to fix the problem. This would ALSO not something that we could force BMW to give us as owners of 2007 cars, but everyone would likely want to have the revised version of the motor. If BMW experiences massive numbers of failures, they MIGHT be forced into a recall, but the odds of that are extremely remote. If that turns out to be the case, our 2007 cars will have a reduced resale value as a result.
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      03-15-2007, 03:27 PM   #26
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cntrl f, oil cooler... dont see it... soo its not your right
You're right, but...
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No "Oil Cooler Delete", soo... I should have the choice to delete it! (Or at least know about it ahead of time!)

Personally, I'm fighting it hard. Particularly since BMW seems to have standardized the form email to say *ALL* should have it (SP-equipped).

I love my car, but I'm willing to lemon it if it overheats!
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      03-15-2007, 04:00 PM   #27
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"well its the truth, its not like bmw promised him an oil cooler, and thats got a crap load of stuff on it, i dont even know what half of it is"

No, no one promised anything, however, i dont like the fact that some cars have them and others dont, especially since mine was ordered 12/12/06 and production started in january. What does your list prove? What are you trying to accomplish by listing that? That the oil cooler should be on that list or something?
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      03-15-2007, 04:01 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by picus View Post
Pasting a list of features and saying since it isn't on there it isn't included is absurd. I don't see "gas cap" on there, or "front windshield"...
those are essential components (not to mention DOT required), the oil cooler is not

find me am essential component listed, for instance
ECU is essential so its left off,

double pivot wishbone suspension, not essential, therefore included,

double vanos, not essential so included

piston... essential, not included

turbo, not essential, included..




Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M_owns_you View Post
What are you trying to accomplish by listing that? That the oil cooler should be on that list or something?
no im saying it shouldnt be on the list, bmw did not tell you your car would have an oil cooler, it works without the oil cooler, so its bmws privlage to remove it if they feel like

if no one had an oil cooler and all the cars ran at 260 under spirited driving you wouldnt be demanding an oil cooler because bmw did not promise you one

this is just a case of "i want what he has"
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      03-15-2007, 04:05 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by picus View Post
You guys are hilarious in your defense of BMW. Only a specific set of cars between certain dates didn't get the cooler. They re-added it in December; that says to me the car needs it. Not only that, but when contacted they are telling customers that *all* ZSP cars have it, which is clearly not true. As for this having a "significant" effect; there have been 4 known reports of overheating 335i's, all 4 involved automatic cars with no oil cooler. Do the math.

I don't see this oil cooler as "it's my right", I see it as, at this point, something BMW should offer as a courtesy to those of us with AT and ZSP. The cars should have it, they don't. The number of cars effected is not large, and the retrofit is not expensive; so it makes little sense to me to have customers who feel ripped off.

Pasting a list of features and saying since it isn't on there it isn't included is absurd. I don't see "gas cap" on there, or "front windshield"...
Yes exactly, that list isnt a complete break down of the car....just a bunch of major features, it doesnt even say anything about the inter-cooler we all have.....let me guess "dont see...must not have it or need its and not my right" right? Just like he said "Pasting a list of features and saying since it isn't on there it isn't included is absurd. I don't see "gas cap" on there, or "front windshield." And you guys are taking that "its my right" too far, you know what i meant and you also know its coming from someone not to happy with the lack of an a-t-a especially since its a 12/12/06 ordered car.
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      03-15-2007, 04:07 PM   #30
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picus,

I am not defending BMW.

I hope that you and everyone else that wants the cooler gets the retrofit kit. I think that it would be a good PR move on BMW's part. It likely depends upon the cost of the kit and the installation time required.

I am simply saying that BMW isn't REQUIRED (legally) to give the retrofit kit to you or anyone else. A manufacturer is permitted to make minor production changes without providing those changes to customers who previously purchased that product.

The thing that should worry everyone is the rumor that the engines have a design flaw where the #5 and #6 cylinder overheat and BMW is introducing a design change in the engine to fix the problem. This would ALSO not something that we could force BMW to give us as owners of 2007 cars, but everyone would likely want to have the revised version of the motor. If BMW experiences massive numbers of failures, they MIGHT be forced into a recall, but the odds of that are extremely remote. If that turns out to be the case, our 2007 cars will have a reduced resale value as a result.
Gotchya. I wasn't really referring to you when I said that anyway, but yes I see where you're coming from.

I haven't heard this 5/6 cylinder rumor, do you have a link?
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      03-15-2007, 04:08 PM   #31
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Yes exactly, that list isnt a complete break down of the car....just a bunch of major features, it doesnt even say anything about the inter-cooler we all have.....let me guess "dont see...must not have it or need its and not my right" right? Just like he said "Pasting a list of features and saying since it isn't on there it isn't included is absurd. I don't see "gas cap" on there, or "front windshield." And you guys are taking that "its my right" too far, you know what i meant and you also know its coming from someone not to happy with the lack of an a-t-a especially since its a 12/12/06 ordered car.
as long as the car still made 300 crank hp and torque, bmw could remove the intercoler if they so chose as well

with the exception of the fact its visible in many marketing photos which they could be liable for, but if that werent the case they would be within their right to remove it
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      03-15-2007, 04:12 PM   #32
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No one is arguing it isn't their right to remove the oil cooler. We're saying that without the oil cooler our cars have a significantly (yes, significantly) higher chance of overheating. At this point you're just playing devil's advocate if you can't see the reasoning behind wanting the cooler there. And no, it isn't "I want what he's got", it's "I don't want my car to overheat".
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      03-15-2007, 04:16 PM   #33
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I think the comments have started getting off track. I completely agree with the original poster that they deserve the oil-cooler retrofitted.

I say that because it seems that after much discovery(we the guinea pigs we are) of overheating engines, that regardless of auto or manual transmission, the car NEEDS to have an oil cooler. Sure, some of you havent seen high temps without one but that doesnt mean it shouldnt have one. BMW apparently did enough research that they started installing them on all products after a certain date.

This is like what Audi did when the TT first came out. After a few accidents at high speed, the aerodynamics department figured that the little lip spoiler was necessary to keep the rear in place. They now made it a standard feature from that date forward and retrofitted them for free on any customers car who wanted one. The key was "wanted". You still see a few TT's without the spoiler meaning it wasnt mandatory ie:a recall.

You might or might not be lucky in getting one retrofitted from the dealer but I think BMW should acknowledge this to all their customers who purchased a car sans oil-cooler who want the option.
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      03-15-2007, 04:28 PM   #34
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The bottom line is: BMW says that all 335 cars with sports package have them so it is the owner's right to have one. End of discussion.
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      03-15-2007, 04:30 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by picus View Post
No one is arguing it isn't their right to remove the oil cooler. We're saying that without the oil cooler our cars have a significantly (yes, significantly) higher chance of overheating. At this point you're just playing devil's advocate if you can't see the reasoning behind wanting the cooler there. And no, it isn't "I want what he's got", it's "I don't want my car to overheat".
haha picus is the regulator, i go eye to with him on this. Its about not wanting my car to over heat, and other then overheating i just want my oil to run cooler like the rest of the 335's that have them. It cant hurt to have one and is probably an advantage to us. Who knows why they removed it, maybe it saved them money or whatever, but still, it just seems like things like that that are obviously better for the car (as far as i knew things that kept the cars fliuds and parts cooler were always better) shouldn't be removed, i just dont see why they would. I can understand things like features of iDrive, or trim's and finishes being removed but not stuf like that.
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      03-15-2007, 04:31 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BzzzBom View Post
The bottom line is: BMW says that all 335 cars with sports package have them so it is the owner's right to have one. End of discussion.
exactly, thank you.
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      03-15-2007, 04:38 PM   #37
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The only reasonable explanation for why they removed them, then re-added them, is that there was a parts supply problem and they decided it wasn't a required component, which it is not. Will I hate my car if I don't get it? Hell no, I love the car - but I will admit I do worry about it overheating. I already run hot, and it's 3C out.
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      03-15-2007, 04:48 PM   #38
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I haven't heard this 5/6 cylinder rumor, do you have a link?
picus, here it is: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...=50621&page=10

Scroll down till you reach RDSports' post, then shiv has a reply to another person related to it too.
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      03-15-2007, 04:54 PM   #39
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Teknochild..is your former screename "Ward" by any chance?
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      03-15-2007, 04:55 PM   #40
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picus, here it is: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...=50621&page=10

Scroll down till you reach RDSports' post, then shiv has a reply to another person related to it too.
Hrmmm... thanks for the link.
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      03-15-2007, 05:06 PM   #41
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just got off the phone with BMW north america, luckily i got a hold of a yound dude with a 335i on order who was jus enthuaisastic as the rest of us about and also concered for his own 335 and so he's looking into it deeply as far as checking my production and what not and is going to get back with me in a day or so. I told him how i wanted it retro-fitted if i didnt have it and he said he's gonna see what he can do. I used that analogy about the opting for leather but not getting and it worked good haha. He did mention that he thinks that only manual cars with SP had them but wasnt sure, and i was sure he was wrong and if he ends up saying that i'll just email him the email that one guy got saying that ALL sport pkg cars should have them.
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      03-15-2007, 05:12 PM   #42
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When you say BMW North America, do you mean BMW USA? If not, I'd love that number.
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      03-15-2007, 05:18 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by picus View Post
No one is arguing it isn't their right to remove the oil cooler. We're saying that without the oil cooler our cars have a significantly (yes, significantly) higher chance of overheating. At this point you're just playing devil's advocate if you can't see the reasoning behind wanting the cooler there. And no, it isn't "I want what he's got", it's "I don't want my car to overheat".
There is a warranty for that.

Why can't I get the shorter final drive ratio from the AT cars on my 6MT? Should BMW give it to me just because some 335's have it?
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      03-15-2007, 05:18 PM   #44
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im pretty sure its just bmw usa, it was 1-800-831-1117
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