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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > we need to fight for our right to have an air-to-oil cooler!!!



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      03-16-2007, 02:18 PM   #67
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For the first time in a 3 Series model, the 335i Coupe's dual exhaust system runs at both sides of the vehicle - logical, as each contains its own turbocharger turbine and therefore requires extra space. At low loads, a flap channels most gas through one side to reduce low-frequency exhaust "rumble." The 335i Coupe features an air-to-oil external oil cooler mounted in one wheel well as opposed to the N52's coolant-to-oil unit.



this is from the BMW press release.
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      03-16-2007, 02:59 PM   #68
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ugh-

First, sdiver68 is the ONLY post with merit on this link, because he actually followed the proper procedure to resolve his issue;

I fail to see where coming on here and screaming like my 3 yr old child about your "rights" does you any good; Do you honestly think that we will rise up with you, and surround your dealer in a sit-in, singing kumbaya, until he feels compelled to throw a cooler onto your car?

The amount of energy you've expended on this forum would already have resolved your oil cooler issue, had you followed proper decorum of seeking resolution via your dealer- have you even MENTIONED this issue to your dealer, or did you go straight to the panic button?

Synthentic oil doesn't "overheat" at 260 degrees. Furthermore, there has been NO documentation as to the effectiveness of this oil cooler- quite often, the benefits of an oil cooler are marginal, simply because there is no effective position to place it;

So before you pollyannas screech anymore about how "dangerous" it is to operate the 335 sans oil cooler, present some documentation to back up your claims, because guess what? The BMW engineers know FAR more than you about the subect, and if they aren't losing sleep at nights about no oil cooler, then why are you?

Fact is, the oil cooler is ANOTHER place for potential leak and/or castastrophe, and given the choice on my motorcycles, I have always elected to run synthetic oil and skip the oil cooler- I got by.

It's not that we all don't feel your pain, about how you've been slighted by BMW, who clearly have a personal issue with you (hence your ID on this forum); It's that we're tired of people who jump on the internet and screech to the world every time some minor problem pops up;

Do what sdiver68 did, resolve your problem (hello, it's printed there in black in white for you to follow) and SHUT UP ALREADY- stuff like this has happened to every car built in history- what makes you special?

OR (shocker)- SELL the da** car, if this oil cooler thing consumes so much of your life- a Kia Sorrento has 3 oil coolers- they make me tingly.....

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      03-16-2007, 03:12 PM   #69
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we need to start a class action suit if we cant get this fixed similar to the short ipod battery length suit that won easily
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      03-16-2007, 03:26 PM   #70
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I believe more than one member have followed through with the dealer/BMW USA/BMW Canada/BMW AG about this. sdiver68 is just the first to have any sort of satisfactory resolution. By the way, welcome to the forum; seems like you'll fit right in.
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      03-16-2007, 04:04 PM   #71
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******I called my dealer and explained the situation to them and Dan at BMW NA extention 6138 (call them at 1-800-831-1117 and enter extension 6138 to get dan, he's got a 335i on order and shares our concern) was agreeing with my issue and will back me up on behalf of BMW usa. So the dealer told me to come in and check it out and they will most likley retro-fit it at no cost. So when i get back i'll let you guys know what happened. I told them that i want to be back in the garage area and to be shown the cooler (i dont trust their word alone). So stay tuned.
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      03-16-2007, 04:17 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teknochild View Post
find me a car that overheated and blew because of a lack of oil cooler, not just a bunch of people crying because their temps get up to 260
Has anyone talked to BMW to see if "260" is overheating????
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      03-16-2007, 05:07 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cazin678 View Post
First, sdiver68 is the ONLY post with merit on this link, because he actually followed the proper procedure to resolve his issue;

I fail to see where coming on here and screaming like my 3 yr old child about your "rights" does you any good; Do you honestly think that we will rise up with you, and surround your dealer in a sit-in, singing kumbaya, until he feels compelled to throw a cooler onto your car?

The amount of energy you've expended on this forum would already have resolved your oil cooler issue, had you followed proper decorum of seeking resolution via your dealer- have you even MENTIONED this issue to your dealer, or did you go straight to the panic button?

Synthentic oil doesn't "overheat" at 260 degrees. Furthermore, there has been NO documentation as to the effectiveness of this oil cooler- quite often, the benefits of an oil cooler are marginal, simply because there is no effective position to place it;

So before you pollyannas screech anymore about how "dangerous" it is to operate the 335 sans oil cooler, present some documentation to back up your claims, because guess what? The BMW engineers know FAR more than you about the subect, and if they aren't losing sleep at nights about no oil cooler, then why are you?

Fact is, the oil cooler is ANOTHER place for potential leak and/or castastrophe, and given the choice on my motorcycles, I have always elected to run synthetic oil and skip the oil cooler- I got by.

It's not that we all don't feel your pain, about how you've been slighted by BMW, who clearly have a personal issue with you (hence your ID on this forum); It's that we're tired of people who jump on the internet and screech to the world every time some minor problem pops up;

Do what sdiver68 did, resolve your problem (hello, it's printed there in black in white for you to follow) and SHUT UP ALREADY- stuff like this has happened to every car built in history- what makes you special?

OR (shocker)- SELL the da** car, if this oil cooler thing consumes so much of your life- a Kia Sorrento has 3 oil coolers- they make me tingly.....

If you have a cooler, read another thread -- I'm following sdiver68's path, and letting the forum know so we can be united on this one. Clearly BMW is like any large, global organization -- the message does not always sink in quickly, and the more people who politely, but firmly, raise the issue through their dealer CA/SA the faster we will see resolution. I wouldn't be surprised if the engineer who decided to put the cooler into the engine in the first place wasn't even aware it had been pulled out of some cars.

P.S. For those of you without a cooler -- Today's follow-up phone call with my dealer SA -- he is still investigating the issue (at least he sounded more interested today than he did last week). He is promising to push a little harder to get an answer from the "Field Service Engineer".
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      03-16-2007, 05:11 PM   #74
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260F isn't overheating. Actually, it's not even close; that's only 126C; my car runs 130C in town on cold days.

The car starts to limit power at 150C (302F), at 157C it goes into limp mode and overheats at 161C (322F).

According to Castrol, the oil BMW uses in these engines begins to break down at 320F.
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      03-16-2007, 05:17 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by ///M_owns_you View Post
******I called my dealer and explained the situation to them and Dan at BMW NA extention 6138 (call them at 1-800-831-1117 and enter extension 6138 to get dan, he's got a 335i on order and shares our concern) was agreeing with my issue and will back me up on behalf of BMW usa. So the dealer told me to come in and check it out and they will most likley retro-fit it at no cost. So when i get back i'll let you guys know what happened. I told them that i want to be back in the garage area and to be shown the cooler (i dont trust their word alone). So stay tuned.
I am expecting my car (AT / Sports Pkg) in the next several days. I just spoke with Dan (x6138). He said that my car should definately have the oil cooler and if not there is a retrofit kit that the dealer will install at no cost. It looks like BMW is getting their act together and we will all get oil coolers.
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      03-16-2007, 05:19 PM   #76
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When you guys are calling BMW USA, are you just asking for customer service, telling them the issue, and going from there? When I call BMW Canada I essentially get a receptionist who says "so sorry, can't answer technical questions".
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      03-16-2007, 05:22 PM   #77
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Customer service. Everyone at BMWUSA who I have spoken to is very aware of the oil cooler issue.
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      03-16-2007, 05:23 PM   #78
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Figures... silly communist Canada.
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      03-16-2007, 06:07 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ccatznip View Post
Has anyone talked to BMW to see if "260" is overheating????
According to BMW literature on the engine, 300F is the point at which they set the warning light and start to cut back A/C and engine power. So 260 is not even close.
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      03-16-2007, 09:03 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cazin678 View Post
First, sdiver68 is the ONLY post with merit on this link, because he actually followed the proper procedure to resolve his issue;

I fail to see where coming on here and screaming like my 3 yr old child about your "rights" does you any good; Do you honestly think that we will rise up with you, and surround your dealer in a sit-in, singing kumbaya, until he feels compelled to throw a cooler onto your car?

The amount of energy you've expended on this forum would already have resolved your oil cooler issue, had you followed proper decorum of seeking resolution via your dealer- have you even MENTIONED this issue to your dealer, or did you go straight to the panic button?

Synthentic oil doesn't "overheat" at 260 degrees. Furthermore, there has been NO documentation as to the effectiveness of this oil cooler- quite often, the benefits of an oil cooler are marginal, simply because there is no effective position to place it;

So before you pollyannas screech anymore about how "dangerous" it is to operate the 335 sans oil cooler, present some documentation to back up your claims, because guess what? The BMW engineers know FAR more than you about the subect, and if they aren't losing sleep at nights about no oil cooler, then why are you?

Fact is, the oil cooler is ANOTHER place for potential leak and/or castastrophe, and given the choice on my motorcycles, I have always elected to run synthetic oil and skip the oil cooler- I got by.

It's not that we all don't feel your pain, about how you've been slighted by BMW, who clearly have a personal issue with you (hence your ID on this forum); It's that we're tired of people who jump on the internet and screech to the world every time some minor problem pops up;

Do what sdiver68 did, resolve your problem (hello, it's printed there in black in white for you to follow) and SHUT UP ALREADY- stuff like this has happened to every car built in history- what makes you special?

OR (shocker)- SELL the da** car, if this oil cooler thing consumes so much of your life- a Kia Sorrento has 3 oil coolers- they make me tingly.....

I have to agree this oil cooler paranoia is getting out of control.I've had my 335i without the oil cooler for 3 months and not a single issue.My oil temps have never gotten over 250 and that's only driving it hard in the mountains of western nc where I live.I leased my car and personally am not gonna worry about it.I've had dealers make things worse on cars I've had them upgrade,if I see a problem then I'll do something about it.Meanwhile I love my car!
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      03-16-2007, 09:47 PM   #81
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I'm not sure why you guys think we're out of control or paranoid. I love my car. I mean, love it - I drive it hard now that it's broken in; I am continuing to invest time and money in it... That said, my car runs hot, no question. It's running hotter than average, and while that may mean nothing it might also turn into a real issue come summer. Just because we're trying to figure out how to get a retrofit doesn't mean we're freaking out or something.

It's like, on my G35 they eventually changed the front end alignment when someone complained. They did it on all '03's, but not on '04's even though '04's had a similar wear issue. Eventually the '04 owners politely but consistently brought this to Infiniti's attention and got the fix. This is a similar situation, not a big deal; but worth putting a little effort into to get it resolved.
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      03-16-2007, 10:22 PM   #82
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******* MY OUT COME AT THE DEALER TODAY*********
so heres what the dealer said. They said that BMW needs to supply them with a kit of some sort for the retro fit becuase they think that its not as simple as just bolting it on. They were all cocky and i told them, hey, listen to me i called BMW USA and you can talk to them too, i dont care if you guys have never done it or heard of this problem before, this is OC and most people here are a bunch of moms who know nothing about their BMW except that it says BMW and they paid alot for it and other people know that. So you can call Dan ext. 6138 and talk to him yourself and he'll back it up. Im going to have him call your dealership and explain this to you guys and have him look into exactly what needs to be shipped and done. The guys at the dealer were just saying that BMW either needs to post a bulletin about it or something or send them detailed instructions and a kit to do it becuase its never been done before. I just want my dealer to fully understand that this is an issue on behalf on BMW and that needs to be done for me at no cost. Sooo.......im calling dan again tomorrow and talking to him about it and have him call and email the dealer about this. Stay tunned.
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      03-16-2007, 11:55 PM   #83
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all I got to say is that I have yet to hear a SINGLE instance where someone's car overheated as a result of hard driving, and I'm sure that many of us (including myself) have driven their car hard and some very hard. if the lack of an a-to-a cooler is so necessary, why aren't we hearing about a bunch of 335i's overheating?
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      03-17-2007, 02:29 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by maynardc View Post
all I got to say is that I have yet to hear a SINGLE instance where someone's car overheated as a result of hard driving, and I'm sure that many of us (including myself) have driven their car hard and some very hard. if the lack of an a-to-a cooler is so necessary, why aren't we hearing about a bunch of 335i's overheating?
The only information on overheating so far was by a group that was supposedly tracking the automatic version at a driving school (if I recall correctly). However, I don't believe that this report was documented or confirmed. BMW does some pretty brutal testing on their cars. We have to hope that they have this covered. If not, we will hear lots about it this coming summer. It has been 80-90 here and I haven't had any problems at all.
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      03-17-2007, 08:18 AM   #85
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all I got to say is that I have yet to hear a SINGLE instance where someone's car overheated as a result of hard driving, and I'm sure that many of us (including myself) have driven their car hard and some very hard. if the lack of an a-to-a cooler is so necessary, why aren't we hearing about a bunch of 335i's overheating?
OK guys, put down your beer bongs, get out your Freshman Logic 101 books and please try to stay on track.

If BMW determined that the oil cooler was not necessary why would they (1) add it to the engine, (2) market the engine as having one, (3) insist that the engine is suppossed to have one and (4) incur the expense of providing a retro fit kit for our cars?
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      03-17-2007, 11:27 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BzzzBom View Post
I am expecting my car (AT / Sports Pkg) in the next several days. I just spoke with Dan (x6138). He said that my car should definately have the oil cooler and if not there is a retrofit kit that the dealer will install at no cost. It looks like BMW is getting their act together and we will all get oil coolers.
How about non-ZSP? It obviously isn't only speeds above 135 where overheating would be a concern.
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      03-17-2007, 11:34 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by BzzzBom View Post
OK guys, put down your beer bongs, get out your Freshman Logic 101 books and please try to stay on track.

If BMW determined that the oil cooler was not necessary why would they (1) add it to the engine, (2) market the engine as having one, (3) insist that the engine is suppossed to have one and (4) incur the expense of providing a retro fit kit for our cars?
oil coolers are not "always" necessary...usually oil coolers and tranny coolers are installed on vehicles that are put under extreme load (i.e. towing boats, trailers etc.). it's more for preventative measure and not a necessity. if there's documentation that all 335's have it, then fine, but that is open for debate.
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      03-17-2007, 11:36 AM   #88
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There are two confirmed instances of cars with auto w/zsp and no cooler overheating. The AW thing was never confirmed, the most we got out of them was that one of the cars went into limp mode for sure.

The cooler probably is not required for normal cool/warm weather driving. It probably *is* required for hard tracking or instances where heatsoak is a concern. We are not hearing of en masse overheats because the cooler itself is rarely ever doing anything, which is great for everyone. It's those cases where it is doing something that become a problem if you don't have it.

Quote:
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oil coolers are not "always" necessary...usually oil coolers and tranny coolers are installed on vehicles that are put under extreme load (i.e. towing boats, trailers etc.). it's more for preventative measure and not a necessity. if there's documentation that all 335's have it, then fine, but that is open for debate.
There are, I think 10+ e-mails from BMW AG, BMW Canada, and BMW USA that say the oil cooler should be installed on *all cars with the sports package*. I've received an e-mail that indicated that from two different representatives, and have been told it over the phone by a Canadian Field Engineer.

I agree, the oil cooler is preventative. I was told that in a very detailed and helpful conversation with a knowledgeable (and sympathetic) SA. He assured me that under normal driving conditions the oil cooler is almost never active, that only under constant hard load will it need to operate. He did indicate that it should be on all cars with zsp.
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