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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > recirc valve?



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      03-18-2007, 10:50 PM   #1
x7original4x
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recirc valve?

I know companies have come out with BOV's, but has anyone herd about a recirc valve? wouldnt a recirc vavle be better for the 335i? sorry if this has already been addressed (dont want to get )
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      03-18-2007, 11:13 PM   #2
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      03-19-2007, 12:02 AM   #3
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I think Shiv at Vishnu had already said the stock ones are more than adequate, even for the higher Proceed boost.

Unless you are looking for a cosmetic upgrade the stock Diverter Vales should be just fine.
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      03-19-2007, 09:04 AM   #4
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I started a thread on this already because of the car having a closed looped system normally you want the air diverted back into the system, but i was going on the guess that this car had a MAF and not a MAP Sensor as it does, which won't make the car run as rich with different readings.......search Diverter Valve and you will see me getting burned about not running a BOV because it could possibly be detremental to the long run of the engine...................even though it will run a lil more rich for that quick instant of the air being released and has not been proven that it will NOT be detremental in the long run, because no one knows......
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      03-19-2007, 09:28 AM   #5
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We're already working on replacement recirc. valves.

Possibly atmo. valves as well.

Hopefully I'll have more detailed info soon!
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      03-19-2007, 10:22 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335boosted2Dmax View Post
I started a thread on this already because of the car having a closed looped system normally you want the air diverted back into the system, but i was going on the guess that this car had a MAF and not a MAP Sensor as it does, which won't make the car run as rich with different readings.......search Diverter Valve and you will see me getting burned about not running a BOV because it could possibly be detremental to the long run of the engine...................even though it will run a lil more rich for that quick instant of the air being released and has not been proven that it will NOT be detremental in the long run, because no one knows......
Closed loop system? You'll only have rich spikes with a draw through MAF setup. It calculates airflow into the engine before the blow off valve so when some of that air is removed from the system (by an atmospheric blow off valve) you'll get rich spikes. With such a setup it's necessary to either run a recirculated valve or use some type of fuel management to compensate. With a blow through MAF or MAP setup (ie your BMW) you will have no such problem because airflow is not measured/calculated before the blow off valve. It will not be detrimental in the long run.. a blow off valve isn't exactly rocket science.

NOT running a blow off valve (whether recirculated like the stock setup or atmospheric) will lead to compressor surge however, which is quite detrimental. When the throttle plate closes and there's no valve to relieve the pressurized air there's only one place it can go: back through the turbocharger. A wave of pressurized air hits the compressor wheel causing stalling which is extremely hard on the bearings and will decrease the turbo's lifespan. The turbo will also have more lag because the compressor wheel is slowed significantly or can even stop/go backwards due to surge.

I'm sure this has been posted a thousand times already but people still seem to be confused.
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      03-19-2007, 11:14 AM   #7
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^ This man speaks the truf!

Since this application is MAP-based, an atmospheric valve will not be detrimental in any way.

As much as any of you may abhor said car, as seems to be par for the course with many, the Neon SRT-4 is MAP-based and Dodge/Mopar even offers a blow-off valve (spacer anyway) from the factory. When an OEM can understand that there is no harm in it, the public shouldn't be so resistant to at least accepting the option for those who so choose to take it if it's available to them.

The only real issue here is someone's personal preference to have the sound or not.

If you don't like it, think it's "rice" (I really HATE that term), or whatever, don't buy it.

There is no functional advantage to one over the other, here, as long as both options are adjustable within the range of use thay will see on this application.

Think of it purely for the sake of sound.

As long as residual charge pressure is being vented at all, (and boost pressure is still held effectively and reliably under load) no functional issues will result either way.
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      03-19-2007, 11:55 AM   #8
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On my race cars I used to vent the bypass valves to atmosphere just to help remove heat from the system. Those turbos get hot and blow out a lot of hot air when cooling down from a run.
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      03-19-2007, 01:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@Forge View Post
^ This man speaks the truf!

Since this application is MAP-based, an atmospheric valve will not be detrimental in any way.

As much as any of you may abhor said car, as seems to be par for the course with many, the Neon SRT-4 is MAP-based and Dodge/Mopar even offers a blow-off valve (spacer anyway) from the factory. When an OEM can understand that there is no harm in it, the public shouldn't be so resistant to at least accepting the option for those who so choose to take it if it's available to them.

The only real issue here is someone's personal preference to have the sound or not.

If you don't like it, think it's "rice" (I really HATE that term), or whatever, don't buy it.

There is no functional advantage to one over the other, here, as long as both options are adjustable within the range of use thay will see on this application.

Think of it purely for the sake of sound.

As long as residual charge pressure is being vented at all, (and boost pressure is still held effectively and reliably under load) no functional issues will result either way.
Well said,

personally I dont mind the sound and I actually have been running Forge BOV (004 BOV) on my B6 A4 for quite some time, and I also run the forge BOV on my B7 A4 as well.... they are more of the WOOOOOSHHHH sound.

I wouldn't mind having a BOV on the my 335, but just no way that I am going to pay the ridiculous prices that these companies are charging for the 335!

That is am patiently waiting for the fellas at Forge to come out with their kit.... great products and cheap prices...hopefully still for the 335 as well.

Keep us posted Mike!.... When you sent David @ Eurocode the BOV for the b7 A4's I tested it out for him. If you want to send him one for the 335 I would be happy to test it out as well!..

Thanks!
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      03-19-2007, 10:26 PM   #10
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thanks for your replies
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      03-19-2007, 10:29 PM   #11
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mike keep us updated please
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      03-20-2007, 12:08 AM   #12
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I find it funny that the good ol Bosch plastic BOVs are used on this car.

They have been used for the past 22 years....the first car I ever saw with one was a Porsche 951 (944 turbo for the uninformed). Mitsubishi used them in the 95-99 Eclipses.

All of them blow open, crack, split, or just blow apart eventually with enough heat and use. Me? 1st generation DSM BOV. Cheap, sounds nice, and holds all the boost you can throw at it. Paint it silver and no ones the wiser .

I had no idea that the motor was using a MAP setup...I havent spent much time under the hood of one yet..
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      03-20-2007, 08:59 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CEA 3 View Post
That is whyI am patiently waiting for the fellas at Forge to come out with their kit.... great products and cheap prices...hopefully still for the 335 as well.

Keep us posted Mike!....
I can assure you, we're not going to artificially inflate our prices to make more money off of you "baller status" BMW owners!

It will be competitively priced for certain.

With that said, we haven't really even started the project yet as we're finishing up the development of another valve product, but as soon as that's completed, which will be soon, this will begin and should be finished in a short amount of time.

We already have OEM samples to build from so we're ready to go ASAP.
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      03-20-2007, 10:45 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@Forge View Post
I can assure you, we're not going to artificially inflate our prices to make more money off of you "baller status" BMW owners!

It will be competitively priced for certain.

With that said, we haven't really even started the project yet as we're finishing up the development of another valve product, but as soon as that's completed, which will be soon, this will begin and should be finished in a short amount of time.

We already have OEM samples to build from so we're ready to go ASAP.
Good To hear! For sure keep us posted.

Can you give us a time frame? Like 1-2 months?
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      03-20-2007, 11:19 AM   #15
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I don't know for sure yet as we haven't really dug into it very extensively, but we hope to very soon.

Sometime within that time frame is a reaonable assumption at this point, though. Hopefully sooner if things go smoothly!

It will just be a simple matter of modifying some existing parts to work instead of building something new from the ground up, so it shouldn't take long. That is not to say, however, that we'll be taking any short cuts nor sacrificing quality nor reliability along the way. We're working from proven existing technologies and parts, so it will just be a simple matter of modifying them for this application and doing some basic testing of operation.
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      03-20-2007, 11:24 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Mike@Forge View Post
I don't know for sure yet as we haven't really dug into it very extensively, but we hope to very soon.

Sometime within that time frame is a reaonable assumption at this point, though. Hopefully sooner if things go smoothly!

It will just be a simple matter of modifying some existing parts to work instead of building something new from the ground up, so it shouldn't take long. That is not to say, however, that we'll be taking any short cuts nor sacrificing quality nor reliability along the way. We're working from proven existing technologies and parts, so it will just be a simple matter of modifying them for this application and doing some basic testing of operation.
Nice... im just going to wait till you guys are done if I ever do get a BOV....
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