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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N57 / M57 Turbo Diesel Discussions - 335d > 335d turbo changeover valve? (SOLVED)



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      03-26-2015, 04:06 PM   #1
kiel_dafo_kenyg_as
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335d turbo changeover valve? (SOLVED)

The small turbo doesn't spool. I've replaced all vacuum hoses and both pressure converters left side to the engine. The small turbo only kicks in when the engine is cold. With warm engine the actuator rod doesn't move at all and boost only happens above 3000 rpm.
Could it be the turbo changeover valve? Anyone has a part number?
I' don't quiet understand how the valve is involved as I thought the actuator is operated by the pc only?

I have a new pc for the egr valve on the bench. The old one makes duck noise on occasion and I'll change it. Maybe the vacuum is too low anyway?
No fun to remove the manifold for nothing...
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      03-26-2015, 07:01 PM   #2
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omg man, you have the same thing as me....how many km you got? do u have a diagnostics?

monday i go to bosch service....
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      03-27-2015, 02:15 AM   #3
kiel_dafo_kenyg_as
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150.000km
No tester. A vacuum manometer would be of great help but I don't have one (gotta buy one just in case)

When I bought the car it had the same turbo issue all of a sudden. A new MAF sensor cured it.

In November I sent the car to hibernation, changed all vacuum hoses including both vacuum operated motor mounts and blanked the swirl flaps. Put it all together and after waking her up in March she won't run proper.

Today I will change the EGR pressure converter as the last key in the chain.
Hopefully it's the part that introduces air into the system (I can feel a hard braking pedal sometimes on start)

If that doesn't help I'm pretty much running out of ideas.
The only things then I can think of are a leaky vacuum container, a gone bad vacuum pump or a I made a mismatch in the hose arrangement for the motor mounts (mixed in/out at the electric valve?).
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      03-27-2015, 06:14 AM   #4
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If you can use bmw dis to activate all the actuators. I did this this recently and managed to go through every actuator and check all was OK. It was. I had a faulty maf

Would not have known this without using dis.

Each of the tests involved the actuator pulsing for one second intervals,
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      03-27-2015, 12:09 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richard_tricky View Post
If you can use bmw dis to activate all the actuators. I did this this recently and managed to go through every actuator and check all was OK. It was. I had a faulty maf

Would not have known this without using dis.

Each of the tests involved the actuator pulsing for one second intervals,
this is interesting point. i was just in a indie garage with original bosch diagnostics and they did not find anything again and are obviously not bmw specialists. i had dis before but it was slow and now I have mac, so i am not sure if I would run that one, however, would give a try if I find my lost OBD cable....
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      03-27-2015, 01:06 PM   #6
kiel_dafo_kenyg_as
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In the end it was the pressure converter for the EGR valve that was introducing air into the vacuum.

Martin,
if you don't have a vacuum tester you can pull the hose joints off and suck on them (no pun intended) or blow (eventually cigarette smoke) into the system and hear or see where it comes out. You can also feel if vacuum is there when you put your finger tip on the hose ending (engine running).
I was able to move the turbine changeover actuator rod with the power of my lungs

I pulled the big hose off of the Pierburg vacuum pump and tested for suction on the pump nipple. You may check this too.

Phew, this nightmare has come to an end for me

Good luck!
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      03-27-2015, 01:40 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteblue View Post
In the end it was the pressure converter for the EGR valve that was introducing air into the vacuum.

Martin,
if you don't have a vacuum tester you can pull the hose joints off and suck on them (no pun intended) or blow (eventually cigarette smoke) into the system and hear or see where it comes out. You can also feel if vacuum is there when you put your finger tip on the hose ending (engine running).
I was able to move the turbine changeover actuator rod with the power of my lungs

I pulled the big hose off of the Pierburg vacuum pump and tested for suction on the pump nipple. You may check this too.

Phew, this nightmare has come to an end for me

Good luck!
The vacuum actuator on the EGR cooler was leaking vacuum?
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      03-27-2015, 02:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoooper View Post
The vacuum actuator on the EGR cooler was leaking vacuum?
No. The pressure converter. Number 1 in the schematic
http://de.bmwfans.info/parts-catalog...m_control_agr/
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      03-27-2015, 02:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteblue View Post
No. The pressure converter. Number 1 in the schematic
http://de.bmwfans.info/parts-catalog...m_control_agr/
Oh I see. We dont have any of those on the US models.
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      03-27-2015, 06:25 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoooper View Post
Oh I see. We dont have any of those on the US models.
Incorrect:

http://de.bmwfans.info/parts-catalog...turbo_charger/

E70 with LP AGR also has another EPDW under the intake manifold.
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      03-27-2015, 07:33 PM   #11
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You linked a pressure converter for the turbo, what's that got to do with the EGR?
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      03-28-2015, 01:21 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoooper View Post
Oh I see. We dont have any of those on the US models.
Therefore we don't have urea on the EU models
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      03-28-2015, 01:47 AM   #13
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Actually, ingenieur is correct. US E70 X5s had the low pressure EGR valve operated via a pressure converter. Whiteblue was showing a pressure converter for the EGR as they are vacuum driven in Europe where the US ones are electrically driven. Where the confusion is, that European and North American E90s had different set-ups, and E70s add more complexity by having a low pressure EGR. We are talking about different vehicles here.

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      03-28-2015, 11:02 AM   #14
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I initially had Hooper's response too. I've had my EGR removed 3 times and it definitely didn't have the apparatus whiteblue showed to us. I had remembered seeing a vacuum hose affiliated with Euro EGR as compared to our electrically operated EGR motor valve.

Off topic but just barely: There is a pretty cool cam like mechanism interfacing motor to valve's axial rod. I had to cut this apart to do my spare "EGR motor valve delete/hogout the throat" process. Still haven't installed onto car yet.

Way to go Yozh with the comparison chart. More points added for you
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      03-28-2015, 07:25 PM   #15
kiel_dafo_kenyg_as
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Attention for those who want to change the hoses that go to the motor mounts!

http://de.bmwfans.info/parts-catalog...ngine_bearing/

The drawing is wrong !!!

The distributor where the vacuum comes from (pump side) is to be connected to the 180 straight nipple on the electric valve and the motor mounts must be connected to the 90 nipple.

If you connect the hoses the other way around like it's shown in the (wrong) drawing your vaccuum will be gone each time at idling and it will have to be repeatedly built up new from zero
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      03-30-2015, 05:41 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteblue View Post
In the end it was the pressure converter for the EGR valve that was introducing air into the vacuum.

Martin,
if you don't have a vacuum tester you can pull the hose joints off and suck on them (no pun intended) or blow (eventually cigarette smoke) into the system and hear or see where it comes out. You can also feel if vacuum is there when you put your finger tip on the hose ending (engine running).
I was able to move the turbine changeover actuator rod with the power of my lungs

I pulled the big hose off of the Pierburg vacuum pump and tested for suction on the pump nipple. You may check this too.

Phew, this nightmare has come to an end for me

Good luck!
hey man, the thing is that I don't even have my own garage, and when I removed the plastic cover from the engine, I couldn't even reach where all the vacuum hoses go. Can you reach the vacuum hoses, including both the PRESSURE ACTUATORS and EGR PRESSURE CONVERTOR from the front open boot with only plastic cover stripped or you need to take something else too? to be honest, I don't even know where they are located, and I am a newbie into these things, and I don't even know which pipe to blow and what it is supposed to do. I was at a mechanic on Friday, and when I told him to check the vacuum system, he was reluctant, and told me to change the MAF sensor for 250 eur only to buy one straight away without the work, but I don't wanna change things that I am not sure that they are faulty. It may be just split hose or the faulty actuator, but these guys here are just not interested to find out, because they know it may be some really minor problem that won't fill their pockets. I have to do it myself. Still, I might be wrong and the turbine may be gone, who knows, but I wanna find out first, not change things without being sure the part if faulty, but again, when I am telling mechanics here to check the breather, or the pipes, or the vacuum system, they just look at me and saying to buy new things.....it's ridiculous, what can I say.....and frustrating too...I dont wanna waste money, where I don't have to, simply said...
and anyway, where do u buy your parts from?
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      03-30-2015, 05:49 AM   #17
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also, man, you don't plan to blank off the EGR valve? and to remove DPF? I have heard, that when you leave CAT inside, it won't fume black smoke by some local guys, and you can pass the control, but who knows...there are few things that might help the car to run better. and another thing nobody is mentioning is the exhaust system. I saw some remus and csl eingenbau on e46 sounding really good, but all the 335d exhausts I saw on youtube were not that great with exception for p4rformance from germany. i am amazed, nobody is dealing with this. and yes this is off the topic, but still
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      03-30-2015, 09:06 AM   #18
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With the acoustic cover removed only the hoses and converters on the passenger side can be reached. For the drivers side the intake manifold has to be removed.
On a scale from 1 (easy) to 10 (demanding) I'd give it a 6 if you're doing it the first time and a 2 if you had it done already. Take care of the oil dipstick. Do not pull the metal pipe out of the oil pan!

I bought the hoses from BMW. I didn't want to prepare for a surprise in a few months and do it all again because of poor durability.
I buy quality parts only (the brands that BMW uses but I just don't buy them from BMW cause they cost twice the money)

A BOSCH MAF sensor costs 170 Euros. I doubt it would help you because a faulty MAF causes CIC messages like "Verschlechterung Abgaswerte" and a rude shifting behaviour of the auto tranny.

Your mechanics want to swap parts because they have no clue about how the 35d engine works. Every human has a brain and two hands. You can learn how to do it. Just google and read DIY's. I did it the same way and was a newbie to the BMW turbo diesel too. Change the hoses, always one at a time and change the pressure converters. No big deal, just time consuming.

If your European 335d runs like it should it has more power than you need. You don't need a DPF delete or EGR block. All that stuff like CBU and shit is not an issue with the European engine setups.
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      03-30-2015, 09:29 AM   #19
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Left to the center of the pic under the black plastic vacuum tank that looks like a handgrenade is the actuatur that switches between small and large turbo. It distributes the exhaust gas either to the small, to both or the large turbo.
When there's a lack of vacuum the actuator is released and exhaust gas can only stream to the large turbo.

Open the hood and let a second person start the engine while you keep watching the actuator rod. It imediatedly should pull backwards 30mm.
Let your buddy shut down the engine and you will see the actuator releasing the rod forwards again. This may take 20 seconds or even longer when no leak is in the system. If the rod doesn't move at all you have no vacuum built up.
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      03-30-2015, 02:44 PM   #20
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cheers man. did you follow this for intake?
http://5series.net/forums/diy-do-you...-engine-53457/
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      03-31-2015, 05:32 AM   #21
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That's a good start though the 5series is slightly different from the e92.

The goal is to remove everything that is mounted above and attached to the manifold itself so you can lift it up and take it away in one move without the need of wiggling it around.
The one-move-lift is important because you don't want to have gaskets or dirt falling into the intake canals. There's a guiding unit where the dome struts connect to the single bolt in the middle. The guide is attached with 3 small bolts (10mm wrench). Remove it and gain from extra clearance

If memory serves me well, before you can remove the manifold you have to separate 2 electrical connectors (to the boost pressure sensor, to the EUV for the swirl flap actuator) and 2 hoses (to EGR valve, to swirl flap actuator) and a clip that holds the large pipe that goes to the brake booster and a 6mm bolt that holds the dipstick.

The vacuum hoses may not come off easily. They will feel like glued to the nipples. Before you snap something just cut the hoses with a carpet knife.

EUV means Elektrisches Umschalt Ventil in German
On the driver side there are two of them. One is mounted to the manifold and controls the swirl flaps and one is mounted to the engine block next to the EGR pressure convertor and it controls the vacuum operated motor mounts. I did not change them but it wouldn't be a bad idea also. At least change the pressure convertor for the EGR valve and see what you get after assembling all together.
If you're lucky and the turbo now works you don't have to do the passenger side.
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      04-02-2015, 09:49 PM   #22
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I am not sure if any of these may be useful to our european friends, or even if they are 100% correct, but nevertheless:

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