E90Post
 


European Auto Source
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > Regional Forums > UK > DSC just kicked in, Yo...



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-15-2011, 05:11 AM   #1
parapaul
Colonel
 
parapaul's Avatar
 
Drives: E91 330d M Sport
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Stoke on Trent

Posts: 2,216
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Unhappy DSC just kicked in, Yo...

Driving home late the other night, I thought I'd take advantage of the empty and wet roads to *ahem* explore the limits of the car's handling... I pressed the DTC button, thinking that since it was the first time I'd tried this going the whole hog and disabling DSC completely was probably a silly idea...

Well, I found a nice big roundabout, with perfect entry and exit opportunities, nice smooth tarmac, nice wide lanes just in case... Auto box into manual, and accelerated onto the roundabout. Steered to the right and squeezed the throttle just a little harder than necessary, and the back end started to break away beautifully

For about a second I was loving it - completely under control, exactly where I had planned to be, and just starting to give it a bit of opposite lock, when (I presume) the DSC decided that I had had enough fun, and

BLAM!, it was as if I'd hit a lamppost side on, the reaction was so violent

I had to hang on to the wheel as the back of the car whipped around behind me to my right, then back to the left, and again, and again, until I was back on course. I was shaking as I turned all the driver aids back on and drove home very steadily...

I think I perhaps need to find somewhere to explore it a bit more - was I expecting too much without disabling the DSC completely?
__________________
Just how many Yorkshire sheep can you fit inside one exhaust?
parapaul is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      05-15-2011, 05:31 AM   #2
DavS1
Major
 
DavS1's Avatar
 
Drives: Emfree
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Glasgow

Posts: 1,163
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 BMW M3  [0.00]
I thinkso yes...I would have turned it fully off and had another go!
__________________
http://www.e90post.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic97427_1.gif
Monte Carlo Blue M3 Comp
DavS1 is offline   Scotland
0
Reply With Quote
      05-15-2011, 05:42 AM   #3
chesney72
First Lieutenant
 
chesney72's Avatar
 
Drives: JB4 G5 335i Sport Touring
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Scotland

Posts: 346
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavS1 View Post
I thinkso yes...I would have turned it fully off and had another go!
+1

Just one press is enough if you want to be able to nail it everwhere and have a little fun nut if its full scale sideways you need it fully off or it just interferes too much.

Big wide wet roundabouts are great fun though
chesney72 is offline   Scotland
0
Reply With Quote
      05-15-2011, 05:43 AM   #4
Vaheed1
Captain
 
Drives: E90 330d M Sport
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne

Posts: 980
iTrader: (0)

Get yourself on a big empty car park
Vaheed1 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-15-2011, 06:10 AM   #5
TikoV
Captain
 
Drives: BMW 335d/X5 40d
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Glasgow

Posts: 664
iTrader: (0)

It's scary I know...Reminds me of the time when I just bought my M3 in 2005. After driving like Miss Daisy for a couple of thousand miles to get accustomed to it, I thought I'd fully disable traction control. BIG BIG mistake.
__________________
TikoV is offline   Scotland
0
Reply With Quote
      05-15-2011, 06:32 AM   #6
toxicnerve
Colonel
 
Drives: E92 335d M-Sport
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: UK

Posts: 2,834
iTrader: (2)

Doesn't sound right to me.

DSC activations shouldn't cause such a violent reaction and IME they don't.

The rear should have broken away, as you say, then when the system decided enough was enough it should have just taken away power and applied a little braking to the slipping wheel(s).

I don't see why it should have caused the snaking you experienced. When I've had DSC/DTC activations I've found the car just pulls itself back into line and then hands controls back over.

All bets are off if your entry and subsequent application of throttle was overly aggressive/violent to begin with though.
toxicnerve is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-15-2011, 06:52 AM   #7
briers
Ben
 
briers's Avatar
 
Drives: XFR
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Midlands,UK

Posts: 1,971
iTrader: (0)

It does sound a little odd, when I've done this and the back end comes out it subtly pulls back in again. With dsc fully off the difference is dramatic it lets go so easily. Maybe the combination of the wet road and too much power made it panic. Only takes a tiny squirt to get the back out.
briers is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      05-15-2011, 07:00 AM   #8
dxb335d
The Tarmac Terrorist
 
dxb335d's Avatar
 
Drives: E46 M3 CS
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: ''Fandango Towers''

Posts: 29,278
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
I ain't a fan of DSC and T/C.

Last summer I had my car it was completely off every journey.

However, you will need to be on the ball.

Get some practise for sure first dude.
__________________
M3 gone .... But I now have a M3 CS
dxb335d is offline   England
0
Reply With Quote
      05-15-2011, 07:04 AM   #9
parapaul
Colonel
 
parapaul's Avatar
 
Drives: E91 330d M Sport
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Stoke on Trent

Posts: 2,216
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
I will - just need to find sensible opportunities until I get a feel for what the car's going to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toxicnerve View Post
All bets are off if your entry and subsequent application of throttle was overly aggressive/violent to begin with though.
I don't think it was - the back end stepped out nice and steadily, and once I started to slide I deliberately kept the throttle constant. More practice needed

Edit: How strange would it look if you saw an estate car drifting around a roundabout?
__________________
Just how many Yorkshire sheep can you fit inside one exhaust?

Last edited by parapaul; 05-15-2011 at 07:14 AM.
parapaul is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      05-15-2011, 07:14 AM   #10
LexS
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: E90 320d M Sport
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Coventry

Posts: 203
iTrader: (0)

Find a big empty area, turn off all the toys and throw it in properly to find the cars limits and work from there

Nothing worse than thinking the car will react one way and it acts completely different when you've got curbs and lamp posts jumping out at you.
__________________
LexS is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      05-15-2011, 08:02 AM   #11
parapaul
Colonel
 
parapaul's Avatar
 
Drives: E91 330d M Sport
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Stoke on Trent

Posts: 2,216
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by LexS View Post
Find a big empty area, turn off all the toys and throw it in properly to find the cars limits and work from there

Nothing worse than thinking the car will react one way and it acts completely different when you've got curbs and lamp posts jumping out at you.
Therein lies the problem... After work today would be ideal, except all the roads are bone dry again

Fingers crossed for more rain before I finish!
__________________
Just how many Yorkshire sheep can you fit inside one exhaust?
parapaul is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      05-15-2011, 08:04 AM   #12
LexS
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: E90 320d M Sport
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Coventry

Posts: 203
iTrader: (0)

Its safer in the dry as when you let off it all stops rather than sliding out into solid things. The tyres won't share the same opinion mind...
__________________
LexS is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      05-15-2011, 09:21 AM   #13
ibanezking
Weekend Rockstar
 
ibanezking's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Leigh, Lancs

Posts: 728
iTrader: (1)

never had my 335d do that

Whack it into a corner............ DSC kicks in and steadies things and off you go

Never had a cars version of a "tankslapper"!
__________________
E92 M3 - Interlagos Blue and Black everything else!!!
ibanezking is offline   England
0
Reply With Quote
      05-15-2011, 09:35 AM   #14
zltm089
Major General
 
zltm089's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i SE Coupe Space Grey
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: LONDON

Posts: 7,384
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2006 BMW 335i  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by parapaul View Post
Driving home late the other night, I thought I'd take advantage of the empty and wet roads to *ahem* explore the limits of the car's handling... I pressed the DTC button, thinking that since it was the first time I'd tried this going the whole hog and disabling DSC completely was probably a silly idea...

Well, I found a nice big roundabout, with perfect entry and exit opportunities, nice smooth tarmac, nice wide lanes just in case... Auto box into manual, and accelerated onto the roundabout. Steered to the right and squeezed the throttle just a little harder than necessary, and the back end started to break away beautifully

For about a second I was loving it - completely under control, exactly where I had planned to be, and just starting to give it a bit of opposite lock, when (I presume) the DSC decided that I had had enough fun, and

BLAM!, it was as if I'd hit a lamppost side on, the reaction was so violent

I had to hang on to the wheel as the back of the car whipped around behind me to my right, then back to the left, and again, and again, until I was back on course. I was shaking as I turned all the driver aids back on and drove home very steadily...

I think I perhaps need to find somewhere to explore it a bit more - was I expecting too much without disabling the DSC completely?
PLUS ONE ...happened to me about 6-7 times since I got the car....


and the last time I only had DTC off.....but it was wet.....the rear was fcukin vicious and lost control for like half a second.....and I applied the throttle gently!....but I was in DS mode....I believe it would be a little bit easier if it was a proper manual gearbox with normal tyres...
__________________

Current Car: E92 335i SE Dream Cars: AMG SL65 Black,GallardoSuperleggera, GTR 2012, Agera R, F430 Scuderia, DBS, EVO X FQ400, Lexus LFA, F10 M5, M4, GT3 RS4.0, Ferrari 458, Ferrari F12, R8 V10 plus, Jaguar F Type V8, Lamborghini LP700-4 Aventador, Chevrolet Camaro ZL1, C63 AMG Coupe Black, Vanquish 2012, Laferrari, GT3 991, McLaren 650s.
zltm089 is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      05-15-2011, 09:42 AM   #15
The_Bear_Yid
BM Noob
 
The_Bear_Yid's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 325i
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Kent

Posts: 921
iTrader: (1)

This may not be the case on your car, or you already may know but:

Did you press the DTC button or hold it for 3 seconds?

As on mine, that does different things. Pressing it activates DTC for poor weather conditions and holding it de-activates DSC (iirc).

Edit:

I realise that is probably stating the obvious lol.

Last edited by The_Bear_Yid; 05-15-2011 at 10:26 AM. Reason: Got it the wrong way around.
The_Bear_Yid is offline   England
0
Reply With Quote
      05-15-2011, 10:04 AM   #16
toxicnerve
Colonel
 
Drives: E92 335d M-Sport
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: UK

Posts: 2,834
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Bear_Yid View Post
This may not be the case on your car, or you already may know but:

Did you press the DTC button or hold it for 3 seconds?

As on mine, that does different things. Pressing it activates DSC for poor weather conditions and holding it de-activates DTC (iirc).

Edit:

I realise that is probably stating the obvious lol.
Other way round.

A short press activates DTC (DSC restricted) - the car will now allow a small amount of slip & slide before it takes action to correct.

A press and hold (can't remember if it's 3 or 10 seconds) deactivates DSC completely - you're own your own now. The car will not intervene regardless of how severe the slide is.
toxicnerve is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-15-2011, 10:24 AM   #17
The_Bear_Yid
BM Noob
 
The_Bear_Yid's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 325i
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Kent

Posts: 921
iTrader: (1)

That's the one. I knew I should've looked in my Handbook.

It's 3 seconds, I got that right lol.
The_Bear_Yid is offline   England
0
Reply With Quote
      05-15-2011, 10:25 AM   #18
ibanezking
Weekend Rockstar
 
ibanezking's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Leigh, Lancs

Posts: 728
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by toxicnerve View Post
Other way round.

A short press activates DTC (DSC restricted) - the car will now allow a small amount of slip & slide before it takes action to correct.

A press and hold (can't remember if it's 3 or 10 seconds) deactivates DSC completely - you're own your own now. The car will not intervene regardless of how severe the slide is.
thats right

and the default position - whenever the ignition turns on - is for it to be FULLY ON............... so for a new driver just getting in the car - its in its safest state!
__________________
E92 M3 - Interlagos Blue and Black everything else!!!
ibanezking is offline   England
0
Reply With Quote
      05-15-2011, 12:22 PM   #19
m1bjr
LSD - No, you're not seeing things
 
m1bjr's Avatar
 
Drives: RS250 CUP
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Somerset UK

Posts: 3,313
iTrader: (4)

Send a message via MSN to m1bjr
DSC whilst smart, cannot control the steering wheel.

And I wouldn't play about in the wet, the grip levels can change dramtically in inches on wet roads.

Far safer in the dry, and the recovery is far snappier as is braking ability if you get out of shape.

Do you see pro drifters running in the wet?



Steve
__________________
m1bjr is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      05-15-2011, 01:08 PM   #20
chrismanchr
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 1986 mr2 mk1
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: manchester england

Posts: 222
iTrader: (0)

everyone said the old e30 325i was tail happy and verging on dangerous ,I had one and loved it ,i used to slide it everywhere ,but when i bought a 330i e46 they said they'd tamed the tail happy nature ,but if you turned off the dsc it was very tail happy and not as controlable as the old e30 ,now ive got a e92 325i ,which some of you my critise as being abit slow ,well it feels faster and smoother than my old e46 ,218bhp but lighter ,verses 221bhp but one thing that impress's me is the handling ,dsc off the dramatic oversteer quailty of the e30 and e46 seem to be gone ,with just a touch of a slide now and again when pushing hard
chrismanchr is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-15-2011, 01:23 PM   #21
toxicnerve
Colonel
 
Drives: E92 335d M-Sport
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: UK

Posts: 2,834
iTrader: (2)

I really want to experiment a bit with DSC fully off but the public highway is just not the place to do it (imo).

There's way too much street furniture and banging a kerb could do some serious damage to a wheel/suspension components.

Not to mention other road users!

Where are all the 10,000sq/m open areas of fresh tarmac?
toxicnerve is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-15-2011, 02:12 PM   #22
leetennis
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 3 M Sport
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: kent

Posts: 517
iTrader: (0)

I don't profess to be any better at drifting than anyone else and I'm sure someone will be able to explain the theory better.
I think the "tank slapper" is induced by over correction after over correction. As someone mentioned earlier dtc/dsc has no influence over your steering angle so until the car is at what the software deems manageable speed you can have all sort of shapes. I guess it possible that the dtc found you a slighty higher level of grip by slowing down certain wheel speed correcting lateral movement and producing more linear motion however this didnt match the wheel angle chucking you back into another slide.
As mj1br suggested unpredictable levels of grip and changing levels of grip will require a different steering angle vs wheel speed vs lateral vs linear direction to maintain your slide. If you want to maintain a slide and dtc wants you back to linear you start squabbling and over correcting one another.
Watch this clip, great example of car control and ease coming out of a slide but equally you can see how he can get a tank slapper going if he/she didn't match the two axels up at the right time.

I may not be spot on here but it's what I can grasp what happened from my level of understanding
leetennis is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:15 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST