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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > 335i vs M5 / M6



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      05-26-2011, 02:23 AM   #1
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335i vs M5 / M6

Okay, I know this debate has been beaten to death with a stick! and it was established that if the straight away was long enough an M5 / M6 would destroy a modded 335i due to the fact that it has incredible top end.. However, I was doing some research today and it looks like a stock M5 / M6 is pushing about 385 - 390 WHP and slightly less torque.

With all of the Stage 2 tunes out there, GIAC pushing 415 WHP+ As well as more torque.. Precede, JB4 and soon to be Cobb! How is it that a much lighter 335i with over 400WHP and 400+ Wheel torque can't beat an M5's top end? Or even a slightly modifed M5 / M6 with 410 - 415 whp?

The physics on paper don't make sense to me...
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      05-26-2011, 02:36 AM   #2
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To go into it further even a Lamborghini gallardo pushes around 360 - 420 whp depending on the year..
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      05-26-2011, 02:47 AM   #3
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Go youtube and search 335 vs M5 and there's alot of video on that! M5 is a M5, no matter how fast is a tuned 335 and how it beat the M5.

Here's one for you
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      05-26-2011, 02:57 AM   #4
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I've seen them, however that is only a chipped 335i.. Lots of the videos are a few years old to boot! Now with 335i owners regularly hitting 420+whp they should stand an equal chance..

Lets say two cars have the same wheel hp, same wheel torque.. One car is over 400 pounds lighter, which car will win!?
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      05-26-2011, 02:59 AM   #5
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^^chipped 335? That could mean a bone stock 335i with a jb+ of course an m5 will walk that. All the videos I find between m5's and m6's against modded 335s have JB3 and intake in the description.
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      05-26-2011, 03:05 AM   #6
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i think fbo 335i can beat stock m5
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      05-26-2011, 03:10 AM   #7
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Bigtom has a cpu le of m5 kills. The M5 also has better aerodynamics so could be the reason why it walks away In the topend.
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      05-26-2011, 03:18 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90Vader View Post
I've seen them, however that is only a chipped 335i.. Lots of the videos are a few years old to boot! Now with 335i owners regularly hitting 420+whp they should stand an equal chance..

Lets say two cars have the same wheel hp, same wheel torque.. One car is over 400 pounds lighter, which car will win!?
I think a FBO 335 with tune and meth will walk the stock M5 for sure... but it's just not a fair race!
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      05-26-2011, 03:20 AM   #9
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gearing also comes into play...
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      05-26-2011, 03:39 AM   #10
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Its gearing and the higher rpm plus the aerodynamics don't hurt..
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      05-26-2011, 04:00 AM   #11
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Ill give you another example. My friend owns a beautiful e36 M3 and I have an n55 e92. my car bone stock couldnt keep up. After LSD/DP and filter we went to the dyno where numbers clearly said Im stronger. Cant remember exact result but hp was slightly higher and tourge significantly higher - when racing we seem to be very close now. I also think the gearbox ratios play a very important role here. (actually I heard somewhere that 335s have the same manual gearbox as the M5s did - can anyone comment on this?)
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      05-26-2011, 04:01 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aridk View Post
Bigtom has a cpu le of m5 kills. The M5 also has better aerodynamics so could be the reason why it walks away In the topend.
better than e92 ??
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      05-26-2011, 05:38 AM   #13
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M5 has more frontal area, so more drag despite of ok cd-value. It also weighs more. The best GPS recorded 60-130mph time for M5 is 10.4s.

At least Hotrod and Mr.5 have gone around 9s (GPS measured) without nitrous and with stock turbos.

As someone said, it is not a fair race, since N54 can be modded to have more power while it weighs less.
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      05-26-2011, 05:51 AM   #14
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I'd put money on a fbo 335 every time.
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      05-26-2011, 06:33 AM   #15
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Who cares if the 335i is faster with fbo. Have you driven an m5? It is sensational in every way that a 335i is not!

I'm sorry i own 335i myself but the m5 is just in another league, the way it violently changes up at redline is uncanny.
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      05-26-2011, 06:38 AM   #16
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M5 has bigger trunk and 5 seats!

It's comfortable and a perfect family car.
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      05-26-2011, 06:50 AM   #17
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I think a lot of it really comes down to gearing. The e90 diff has an extremely high gear ratio of 3.08 compared to the M3's 3.8. That means for every revolution of the engine the M3's rear wheels spin .8 times more than the e90. It's great for gas mileage, but not so much for acceleration. My twinturbo Z had a 4.1 gear ratio and was putting down roughly the same RWHP with GT25r turbos, but it's acceleration was much quicker than the 335. It would blast through the rev range extremely quickly. Then again I only averaged 19MPG compared to my 26-27 range in the 335. The other trade off was having to shift much quicker through the gears, and on certain tracks I was always in between gear shifts, having to go up a gear just for a few more rpms. In the BMW I have so much more gear, that I don't even bother shifting through most technical sections of the track. I can keep it in 3rd and never really come too close to redline. So I save time and energy not having to shift so much, but of course acceleration isn't as fast as it could be. However, I will say that this car has so much low end torque that it really doesn't matter, and is ridiculously fast on track, even at 11psi.


Quote:
Originally Posted by E90Vader View Post
Okay, I know this debate has been beaten to death with a stick! and it was established that if the straight away was long enough an M5 / M6 would destroy a modded 335i due to the fact that it has incredible top end.. However, I was doing some research today and it looks like a stock M5 / M6 is pushing about 385 - 390 WHP and slightly less torque.

With all of the Stage 2 tunes out there, GIAC pushing 415 WHP+ As well as more torque.. Precede, JB4 and soon to be Cobb! How is it that a much lighter 335i with over 400WHP and 400+ Wheel torque can't beat an M5's top end? Or even a slightly modifed M5 / M6 with 410 - 415 whp?

The physics on paper don't make sense to me...
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      05-26-2011, 07:12 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ciomas View Post
Ill give you another example. My friend owns a beautiful e36 M3 and I have an n55 e92. my car bone stock couldnt keep up. After LSD/DP and filter we went to the dyno where numbers clearly said Im stronger. Cant remember exact result but hp was slightly higher and tourge significantly higher - when racing we seem to be very close now. I also think the gearbox ratios play a very important role here. (actually I heard somewhere that 335s have the same manual gearbox as the M5s did - can anyone comment on this?)
This makes sense since the e36M3 is at least 300-400 lbs lighter!
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      05-26-2011, 07:18 AM   #19
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OP, ya makes perfect sense. a 335/135 with FBO and meth can hit 420whp quite easily. so it will pull on an m5. there are no videos thats all i guess. go watch big tom's videos... he pulls on audi r8's, supercharged e46 m3, rs6 i believe, etc etc quite well.
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      05-26-2011, 07:55 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenneth View Post
This makes sense since the e36M3 is at least 300-400 lbs lighter!
This is most important thing weight I remember when we did some roll ons with my brother ( he has Subaru wrx about 200 kg lighter+370-380hp and I was tune+dci we were neck to neck) so even if u have 400hp būt your oponent IS 200 lighter u wont hit him easy
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Last edited by **335i**; 05-26-2011 at 08:03 AM.
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      05-26-2011, 08:01 AM   #21
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I will say, personally, getting out of a modded 335 into the stock e60m5, the m5 feels slow. It probably isn't too much slower, but the missing torque seems to make a difference. But the e60m5 sound
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      05-26-2011, 08:03 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr G13 View Post
Who cares if the 335i is faster with fbo. Have you driven an m5? It is sensational in every way that a 335i is not!

I'm sorry i own 335i myself but the m5 is just in another league, the way it violently changes up at redline is uncanny.
Agreed, and if you put it in S6 shifting (DSC off), and shift at redline, it feels like it is going to rip the transmission out of the car in each gear shift
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