E90Post
 


GTB Performance
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Mechanical Maintenance: Break-in / Oil & Fluids / Servicing / Warranty > Shell Rotella T6



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-12-2013, 07:08 AM   #23
Socom
Major General
 
Drives: 2010 335D
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Atl.

Posts: 5,157
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeveto View Post
I know this is an older thread, but I'm glad I found it. I just bought a 335, and I just changed the oil, using Mobil 1 0-40 European blend. I had to make a couple trips just to find the oil, and the whole time, I kept looking at my old standby -- Rotella.

I use Rotella in my bikes and all my other cars. I think it's a very solid oil. That being said, with the nature of the 335, and the turbos, I'm concerned. So I went the conservative route, and used the BMW approved oil.

I'm curious if anyone's run a Blackstone on Rotella, post 335 yet...
M1 0w40 is a fantastic choice. T6 is well liked by many marque owners unfortunately those who use it with a significantly shortened OCI really can't attest to its performance. This is because the real indicator of how well an oil performs is largely based on time/miles. That's what you're paying for when you buy an expensive synthetic. You're paying for a 10-15k mile OCI instead of a 5k mile OCI.

Filtration plays role as well. Oil filters get better at filtering the longer they're in service.
Socom is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-12-2013, 11:19 AM   #24
floydarogers
Curmudgeon and Pedant
 
floydarogers's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 335d
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Renton, WA

Posts: 774
iTrader: (0)

The only thing I would say about Rotella is that it's designed for heavy-duty truck engines (ACEA E9 rating), not our tiny 3.0L M57. There's a lot of differences between big iron-block 8L engines and our aluminum higher-revving engines.
floydarogers is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2013, 05:48 PM   #25
Crusader
Private First Class
 
Drives: E92 M-sport
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Southeast

Posts: 131
iTrader: (0)

Actually, a lot of E39 8 cylinder owners were experiencing sludge on extended change intervals.

BMW doesn't spend millions on oil analysis, they design to particular viscosity and lubricity specs with desired additives. An oil company that wants the LL01 spec submits samples at their expense.

How many engines, BMW or otherwise, fail because of lubrication failure? Such failures are rare and usually due to operator error ... Think 3 quarts low and driving like you stole it.

That said, I'm not sure a diesel spec oil is ideal for gasoline powered cars, primarily because the additive package is likely quite different for the unique qualities of a Diesel engine.
Crusader is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-24-2013, 01:22 PM   #26
devlmaycry
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: United States

Posts: 37
iTrader: (0)

I wish I had the thread marked, so it's all hearsay..... Coming from the Subaru world we used a lot of rotella t6 due to it's higher zinc content, and it's ability to help prevent premature turbo wear and blow by around the seals. Since most diesels are forced induction of some sort the argument, on the surface, seemed sound. Those high reving boxer motors seemed to like the stuff.
devlmaycry is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-25-2013, 09:18 AM   #27
FCobra94
Major
 
FCobra94's Avatar
 
Drives: '07 E90 335i
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: MD

Posts: 1,127
iTrader: (0)

T6 is great oil and cheap to boot. Bought a whole bunch of cases for like $11/gallon the last time Advanced Auto was running a sale.

As mentioned, I choose to run a more boutique oil brand because I'm more interested in longer drain intervals. I'm sure T6 could go ~7500 miles in most instances though and I'd have no wories running it otherwise.
__________________
'07 E90 335i - Automagic - Non-sport
Cobb AP|Alpina Flash|VRSF 7" FMIC|VRSF CP|TIAL BOV|cp-e DCI|Bilstein B6|E93 M3 FSB|SP Lowering Perches
Summer: Sonic Tuning ST100 - 18x8.5 ET35 - Conti DWS 245/40/18 - 10mm rear spacers
Winter: Style 159 - 17x8 ET34 - Michelin X-Ice Xi2 225/50/17 - 15mm rear spacers
FCobra94 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-03-2013, 10:11 PM   #28
swin500
Private
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bostonish

Posts: 90
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by WingZeroX5 View Post
Shell Rotella T6, It's fully synthetic, and I have heard nothing but good stuff and people recommending them. It's either this or Valvoline SynPower 5w-30, those 5L walmart jugs....But i'm very curious about this oil, hype or not.

Yes, it isn't LL01, it's a diesel oil...blah blah blah...I know I know and I'm sure lot's of people know.

lots of 600RR bikers swear by it, i'm planning to use it on mine. Bob is the oil guy forums have people loving this. So...

Have you guys ever use it and what are your opinions???
that's the perfect oil to use is you have a 335 Silverado edition - as for references to 600cc japanese sportbike - you can probably run it with no oil at all

Last edited by swin500; 10-03-2013 at 10:18 PM.
swin500 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-10-2013, 12:27 PM   #29
GoodtoGo
Private
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Chicago

Posts: 88
iTrader: (4)

I use this oil for a couple reasons:
  • It has been a top performer in several categories in many private oil performance comparisons I have seen and regularly used in turbo applications. My UOA confirms this.
  • Its a true PAO base synthetic oil
  • It contains more ZDDP (one of the best anti wear agents) than found in oils only intended for gasoline only applications (for emissions reasons)
  • Low ash and other formulations that help with things common to N54 and many diesel applications (DI/ carbon deposits and turbo)
  • While not certified to the LL-01 spec, it exceeds every specification that make up the LL-01 spec as far as I can tell
  • It's easy to find and relatively inexpensive compared to Mobil, Shell etc.


It terms of the standards, Anyone can look these up:

BMW LL-01 5W-30 meets:
API: SL/CF
ACEA: A3/B3 (longlife, extended drain intervals)

Rotella 5W-40 meets:
API: SM (exceeds SL/CF, safe for cat conv., approved for gasoline engines)
API: CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF, SM, SL, SJ, SH
ACEA: E9 (longlife, extended drain intervals for diesel engines)

HERE IS MY ~8000 MI BLACKSTONE LAB UOA:


Can't argue with that kind of performance!! OK to close the thread now??
GoodtoGo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-10-2013, 04:38 PM   #30
FCobra94
Major
 
FCobra94's Avatar
 
Drives: '07 E90 335i
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: MD

Posts: 1,127
iTrader: (0)

Word...you'll never change the minds of those who won't understand this about T6. No point in trying. Just keep running it while reaping the benefits!
__________________
'07 E90 335i - Automagic - Non-sport
Cobb AP|Alpina Flash|VRSF 7" FMIC|VRSF CP|TIAL BOV|cp-e DCI|Bilstein B6|E93 M3 FSB|SP Lowering Perches
Summer: Sonic Tuning ST100 - 18x8.5 ET35 - Conti DWS 245/40/18 - 10mm rear spacers
Winter: Style 159 - 17x8 ET34 - Michelin X-Ice Xi2 225/50/17 - 15mm rear spacers
FCobra94 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-11-2013, 07:02 AM   #31
Socom
Major General
 
Drives: 2010 335D
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Atl.

Posts: 5,157
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodtoGo View Post
I use this oil for a couple reasons:
  • It has been a top performer in several categories in many private oil performance comparisons I have seen and regularly used in turbo applications. My UOA confirms this.
  • Its a true PAO base synthetic oil
  • It contains more ZDDP (one of the best anti wear agents) than found in oils only intended for gasoline only applications (for emissions reasons)
  • Low ash and other formulations that help with things common to N54 and many diesel applications (DI/ carbon deposits and turbo)
  • While not certified to the LL-01 spec, it exceeds every specification that make up the LL-01 spec as far as I can tell
  • It's easy to find and relatively inexpensive compared to Mobil, Shell etc.


It terms of the standards, Anyone can look these up:

BMW LL-01 5W-30 meets:
API: SL/CF
ACEA: A3/B3 (longlife, extended drain intervals)

Rotella 5W-40 meets:
API: SM (exceeds SL/CF, safe for cat conv., approved for gasoline engines)
API: CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF, SM, SL, SJ, SH
ACEA: E9 (longlife, extended drain intervals for diesel engines)

HERE IS MY ~8000 MI BLACKSTONE LAB UOA:


Can't argue with that kind of performance!! OK to close the thread now??
Well, it's a single pass UOA so doesn't tell us anything. How many miles on the car? I ask because it may just suggest a an engine which is simply fully broken in and your wear numbers are not significantly better than BS universal avg. This would suggest that T6 is no better/worse than whatever everyone else was using (Blackstone sample size).


Btw..ZDDP is just an old school additive. The new "organic" additives used in low ash oils (ACEA Cx) work very well. BS can't test for those.

In addition for passenger cars it's not really low ash @ 1.0% as that is the min for A3/B4 levels. C3 is .8% for example. But your using a Heavy Duty Diesel Engine oil for OTR big rigs and heavy equipment.


I'm not trying to knock T6, I'm just saying there's a lack of evidence proving it's significantly better than any LL01.

Last edited by Socom; 10-11-2013 at 07:27 AM.
Socom is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-11-2013, 07:27 AM   #32
N8N
Major
 
N8N's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 E92 335i 6MT
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Sterling, VA

Posts: 1,422
iTrader: (1)

Send a message via AIM to N8N Send a message via MSN to N8N Send a message via Yahoo to N8N
I haven't used it in my 335i but it's my go to oil for older cars. I'm running it in my Jeep with a CM filter. The insides of the engine are spanking clean and oil pressure is good.
N8N is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-11-2013, 08:21 AM   #33
GoodtoGo
Private
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Chicago

Posts: 88
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socom View Post
Well, it's a single pass UOA so doesn't tell us anything. How many miles on the car? I ask because it may just suggest a an engine which is simply fully broken in and your wear numbers are not significantly better than BS universal avg. This would suggest that T6 is no better/worse than whatever everyone else was using (Blackstone sample size).

Not sure where you are going with this. Car had about 45K miles when this test was done. I understand the comment about a single pass, but this is a good datapoint indicating levels of engine wear during the period that this particular oil was used. Engines continue to wear somewhat linearly after a more rapid initial break in for the first several thousand miles. N54 engines are fully broken in by the first scheduled factory oil change at 15 to 16K miles. I would say that almost every N54 engine in the BS database is fully broken in, and my result IS better than the Blackstone universal average. Furthermore, my UOA was done at a longer OCI than the average of their database. This would DEFINITELY suggest that T6 is better than what most are using (Blackstone sample size).
GoodtoGo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-11-2013, 08:50 AM   #34
Socom
Major General
 
Drives: 2010 335D
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Atl.

Posts: 5,157
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodtoGo View Post
Not sure where you are going with this. Car had about 45K miles when this test was done. I understand the comment about a single pass, but this is a good datapoint indicating levels of engine wear during the period that this particular oil was used. Engines continue to wear somewhat linearly after a more rapid initial break in for the first several thousand miles. N54 engines are fully broken in by the first scheduled factory oil change at 15 to 16K miles. I would say that almost every N54 engine in the BS database is fully broken in, and my result IS better than the Blackstone universal average. Furthermore, my UOA was done at a longer OCI than the average of their database. This would DEFINITELY suggest that T6 is better than what most are using (Blackstone sample size).
I just read their comments again and noticed they said universal avg at 5900 miles. So from that perspective the numbers are "better" when compared to their data set.
What I always wonder is if BMW official wear limit is 55 ppm for say Aluminum does it matter if one sample is 17 vs. 30 or if they're within the standard deviation for the engine family? The unfortunate thing about UOA is that we never know the OEM wear limits and they capture particles of X-size depending on the lab.

Here's a good link regarding the interpretation of a UOA. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/used-o...hat-is-normal/

Last edited by Socom; 10-11-2013 at 11:09 AM.
Socom is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-11-2013, 12:19 PM   #35
fravel
Lieutenant
 
fravel's Avatar
 
Drives: Monaco Blue '06 330i
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: The Nasti 'Nati

Posts: 590
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socom View Post
I'm not trying to knock T6, I'm just saying there's a lack of evidence proving it's significantly better than any LL01.
I don't think anyone is trying to prove that T6 is better than an LL01 approved oil, the point is that T6 does provide protection that is at the very least on par with the LL01 approved oils and offers a significant reduction in cost.
fravel is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-11-2013, 12:35 PM   #36
GoodtoGo
Private
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Chicago

Posts: 88
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socom View Post
In addition for passenger cars it's not really low ash @ 1.0% as that is the min for A3/B4 levels. C3 is .8% for example. But your using a Heavy Duty Diesel Engine oil for OTR big rigs and heavy equipment.
I went back and looked through some of the specs again. There are two aspects to ash. The first is the starting ash content of the oil that you were referring to and the second is the propensity of the oil to create and deposit ash/carbon/soot when heated. I was more referring to the latter, especially considering issues with carbon deposits on intake valves.

In any case, regarding starting ash content:
BMW LL01 ACEA A3/B4 max ash content is 1.6% (not 1%)
Rotella T6 API CJ-4 and ACEA E9 both have a max ash content of 1%

This is what Shell says of T6 related to the propensity of the oil to create and deposit ash/carbon/soot:

"Shell Rotella T6 helps control the impact of soot on your
engine through increased levels of high-performance ashless
chemistry that keeps soot particles apart. You get up to 36%
improvement in soot control at typical motor-oil-soot
levels.* This helps keep the oil free flowing for good startup and
continued energy efficiency, and helps prevent sludge, deposits
and wear."

Last edited by GoodtoGo; 10-11-2013 at 03:38 PM.
GoodtoGo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-11-2013, 03:40 PM   #37
Socom
Major General
 
Drives: 2010 335D
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Atl.

Posts: 5,157
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodtoGo View Post
I went back and looked through some of the specs again. There are two aspects to ash. The first is the starting ash content of the oil that you were referring to and the second is the propensity of the oil to create and deposit ash/carbon/soot when heated. I was more referring to the latter, especially considering issues with carbon deposits on intake valves.

In any case, regarding starting ash content:
BMW LL01 ACEA A3/B4 max ash content is 1.6% (not 1%)
Rotella T6 API CJ-4 and ACEA E9 both have a max ash content of 1%

This is what Shell says of T6 related to the proposity of the oil to create and deposit ash/carbon/soot:

"Shell Rotella T6 helps control the impact of soot on your
engine through increased levels of high-performance ashless
chemistry that keeps soot particles apart. You get up to 36%
improvement in soot control at typical motor-oil-soot
levels.* This helps keep the oil free flowing for good startup and
continued energy efficiency, and helps prevent sludge, deposits
and wear."
True yet the min ash for A3/B4 is 1%. It's a HDEO and advertised for that market.

Shell has some GTL oils which are interesting. I just wish they were C3 with Low
NOAK.

Last edited by Socom; 10-11-2013 at 03:51 PM.
Socom is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-11-2013, 03:50 PM   #38
///M3NACE
Banned
 
///M3NACE's Avatar
 
Drives: E36 M3, E36 Vert , E90 N52
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Downers Grove, IL

Posts: 3,907
iTrader: (5)

Just wanted to say I use this on my fathers x5 that has 270k. Owned it since new in 2003. I use this oil on my e36 m3 S52 as well. Use it in my mothers e46 with 150k. This oil is great with the M54 engines. I don't use it on my e90 since it's low mileage and always dealer maintained
///M3NACE is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-11-2013, 03:52 PM   #39
///M3NACE
Banned
 
///M3NACE's Avatar
 
Drives: E36 M3, E36 Vert , E90 N52
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Downers Grove, IL

Posts: 3,907
iTrader: (5)

My friends and family been using mobil 1 5w30 for decades and it's not approved. The shell rotella helps with the lifter ticks in my parents car barely even an audible now.
///M3NACE is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:41 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST