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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > Considering trading in my E320 Bluetec for a 335d.. Opinions please



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      05-27-2011, 09:45 PM   #1
DubVBenz
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Considering trading in my E320 Bluetec for a 335d.. Opinions please

I have an 07 Bluetec that's pretty well optioned out (for the diesel), and now has around 47K. I purchased a year ago with 27K, and the car has been pretty reliable. I had to fix a few odds and ends under warranty (door lock actuator and keyless entry door handle) when I first purchased it, but the engine & transmission have been pretty flawless.

I like the 335D (more power, slightly better economy), and would be interested in trading for a late 11 early 12 within the next year, but had a few questions for those in the know.

1) It looks like the electronics in current BMWs can be finicky or downright poor in quality control. I'd like to think I wouldn't be replacing window regulators, seat motors and various electronic components on a yearly basis. MB's don't have a great reputation anymore for electronics, but the basics seem to be pretty good still. I've been reading some horror stories on here, but I was hoping these issues would be ironed out near the end of the e90 production run.

2) Engine stuff: Any issues with the d? I know the HPFS has been horrid on the 335i, but haven't heard similar issues with the d. I've heard mumblings of turbo lifespan issues, so if anyone has any input on that, I'd appreciate it. I also had heard that the diesel had a problem with plastic intake flaps disintegrating and being sucked into the air filter, is this still an issue (or was it ever)?

3) ZF Transmission: Can I realistically expect this to last 100K or more if I am religious about flushing and approved synthetic fluid? The 5 speeds in MB's from the late 90s to 2006 are "lifetime fill", which means they crap out if you don't flush by the time they reach 100k. I know the same ZF lifetime fill transmissions in older BMWs shared the same problem. My 7-speed includes regular maintenance intervals, and aside from valve-body electronics issues on the earlier iterations, I haven't heard of any major mechanical issues with it as long as you respect regular maintenance intervals.

Overall: I know the W211 & E90 are completely different cars. One is a small sports sedan, the other is a larger executive saloon (although they weigh the same amount surprisingly). Has anyone else gone from one to the other, and can you share your insight? Aside from the missing space and spare tire, I would probably miss the panoramic roof and more luxurious interior, but would welcome the BMW apps Nav upgrade.

Performance: I have a tuning box on mine which means my torque is probably slightly more than 425, and my HP is around the 230 mark, but I understand you can get the 335d above 300HP fairly easily. Could I expect to do so without destroying the engine and transmission?

Please, don't flame because I'm a benz guy, I'm looking for honest opinions for a car I intend to own for 5+ years (unless a higher output MB diesel short wheelbase S-class is released).
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      05-28-2011, 03:30 AM   #2
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I have 23k miles on my 335d and so far no issues. Had some nailed tires but wheel/tire warranty took care of the pricey Michelin PS2's

I do not regret my choice of going D at all over the I. The torque is just there for you. I get ~30mpg in shitty houston traffic. Cruise on freeways normally around 75mph, but mostly city driving.

Not many issues reported with the 335d compared to 335i.

JBD has a chip for it and i may go that route in the future.

Wish the 335d came in coupe/convertible in US tho.

The only thing i gripe about sometimes is the interior space is not as big for the money paid. I wish it was roomier inside like the 5series or even a honda accord. Other than that, its the best car choice for a daily driver for me. Luxury, power, and efficient.
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      05-28-2011, 05:44 AM   #3
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Thumbs up Honest BMW Answer

Glad to hear your looking to upgrade from the E320 Bluetec to the BMW E9X 335D. I have answered your following questions below in Red to give you some insight for your future purchase. Hopefully this information will be useful in your search for your Future BMW. Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions or would like more information.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DubVBenz View Post
I have an 07 Bluetec that's pretty well optioned out (for the diesel), and now has around 47K. I purchased a year ago with 27K, and the car has been pretty reliable. I had to fix a few odds and ends under warranty (door lock actuator and keyless entry door handle) when I first purchased it, but the engine & transmission have been pretty flawless.

I like the 335D (more power, slightly better economy), and would be interested in trading for a late 11 early 12 within the next year, but had a few questions for those in the know.

1) It looks like the electronics in current BMWs can be finicky or downright poor in quality control. I'd like to think I wouldn't be replacing window regulators, seat motors and various electronic components on a yearly basis. MB's don't have a great reputation anymore for electronics, but the basics seem to be pretty good still. I've been reading some horror stories on here, but I was hoping these issues would be ironed out near the end of the e90 production run.

BMW offers a $0 Maintenance plan to cover all of the listed issues under factory warranty of the vehicle. This warranty plan is something which Audi, Lexus, or MB cannot beat. Don't let the handful of horror stories get discourage your view on the 335d. I have driven the 335d and it provides phenomenal fuel economy for the power and torque it produces.

2) Engine stuff: Any issues with the d? I know the HPFS has been horrid on the 335i, but haven't heard similar issues with the d. I've heard mumblings of turbo lifespan issues, so if anyone has any input on that, I'd appreciate it. I also had heard that the diesel had a problem with plastic intake flaps disintegrating and being sucked into the air filter, is this still an issue (or was it ever)?

The Diesels from what I have seen don't encounter as many HPFP failure issues as the standard 335i. If you follow BMW's 15k Oil Changes your engine and turbo life won't that great. The Intake Flap issue might have been on the older generation vehicle's I am sure BMW has corrected that issue by now.


3) ZF Transmission: Can I realistically expect this to last 100K or more if I am religious about flushing and approved synthetic fluid? The 5 speeds in MB's from the late 90s to 2006 are "lifetime fill", which means they crap out if you don't flush by the time they reach 100k. I know the same ZF lifetime fill transmissions in older BMWs shared the same problem. My 7-speed includes regular maintenance intervals, and aside from valve-body electronics issues on the earlier iterations, I haven't heard of any major mechanical issues with it as long as you respect regular maintenance intervals.

The Newer Transmissions Seem to live up to it's standard and capable of handling the upgrading Performance from the Upgraded Tunes in the market. I have personally seen vehicles with over 150K with the Automatic Transmission with no issues at all which is truly amazing.

Overall: I know the W211 & E90 are completely different cars. One is a small sports sedan, the other is a larger executive saloon (although they weigh the same amount surprisingly). Has anyone else gone from one to the other, and can you share your insight? Aside from the missing space and spare tire, I would probably miss the panoramic roof and more luxurious interior, but would welcome the BMW apps Nav upgrade.

I have driven the E320 Bluetec and it's not my cup of tea. The Handling and Driving Experience of a BMW is something that unique and the Performance of the Turbo Diesel is utterly amazing. The Navigation on the older 06-08 Models are horrific the newer 2010+ & Up are amazing and easy to maneuver through. Roadside assistance and the Tire Warranty should make forgetting the Benz much easier. The Thrill of the boost kicking and torque throwing you back so worth it completely.

Performance: I have a tuning box on mine which means my torque is probably slightly more than 425, and my HP is around the 230 mark, but I understand you can get the 335d above 300HP fairly easily. Could I expect to do so without destroying the engine and transmission?

Similar Performance Tunes are available for the 335d. I can provide with more information if you would like. Both the engine and transmission are capable of handling the additional power with ease with out compromising the driveablity and reliability of the vehicle.

Please, don't flame because I'm a benz guy, I'm looking for honest opinions for a car I intend to own for 5+ years (unless a higher output MB diesel short wheelbase S-class is released).

We leave the flaming to Burger King here Hopefully this essay of answer will help in your decision and look forward to have you joining the BMW Community.


Cheers,

Tim Hall
Exquisite Motorsports Operations Manager
Direct E-Mail: Tim@exquisitemotorsports.com
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      05-28-2011, 07:10 AM   #4
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Go for a BMW 528i, in the same class of your E-Class.

1. the body is more recent and more up-to-date
2. the 528i's fuel economy is almost dead-on as your E320CDI (22/32 vs 23/32)
3. the 528i has 240HP and your E320 only 210; the 528i is faster
4. you'll appreciate the comfort of the 5-series.
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      05-28-2011, 08:12 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Go for a BMW 528i, in the same class of your E-Class.

1. the body is more recent and more up-to-date
2. the 528i's fuel economy is almost dead-on as your E320CDI (22/32 vs 23/32)
3. the 528i has 240HP and your E320 only 210; the 528i is faster
4. you'll appreciate the comfort of the 5-series.
Here we go again, i predict 5 pages! Saintor we haven't seen you in some time, hope you've been well!

Saintor, OP asked about a 335d and not a slow 528i. Horsepower does not make a car faster, Torque does.

OP, the blutec and the d are two very different cars. The E series benz will be a lot more comfortable but the 335d is a sports vehicle, it goes like one and handles like one. You have to test drive it, it's like nothing from this world. Recently drove it to canada, have about 16k miles on it and it returned 38mpg. Pretty impressive as i'm sure you know diesels become more efficient over time. I think the other guys have it covered about answering your initial questions!
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      05-28-2011, 08:56 AM   #6
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Quote:
Horsepower does not make a car faster, Torque does.
Totally false. That's why race cars focus on HP and trucks on torque. Not a mistake.

And that's why a 300HP / 300lbs-ft 335i is quicker than a 265HP / 425lbs-ft 335d.

He asked for opinions. I gave him mine. And it is none of your business.
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      05-28-2011, 09:53 AM   #7
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if you are planning to get it late 11 early 12 , wait for the F30
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      05-28-2011, 10:19 AM   #8
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There haven't been any major problems with the 335d. In terms of electronics, there may be a few minor gremlins here or there but usually it's a matter of getting your car's software updated. The engine is pretty much bulletproof; every now and again there'll be a horror story related to the turbos, but these are the kind of problems you hear about in any turbo'd car, and they're not systemic or commonplace. As for the ZF transmission, it's supposed to be a beefed up unit used in BMW's higher-spec V8 cars, so it should do well if you service it regularly. In terms of tuning, the JBD chip from BMS has a good reputation and can bump power to as high as ~310 at the wheel. That said, you run the risk of shortening the life of your turbos, engine, drive train, etc. by using the chip.

Also, please do ignore Saintor's babbling. He has an irrational hatred of all things diesel and will make the most absurd arguments to try to dissuade you from owning one. For example, the 528i he suggested is more expensive, burns more fuel, and is significantly slower than the 335d. Its only advantage is that it's a bit bigger and a bit more luxurious.
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      05-28-2011, 10:57 AM   #9
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The M57 is for the most part bulletproof. No hpfp issues. You are simply tradin luxury for performance
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      05-28-2011, 11:31 AM   #10
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DubVBenz, the last of the pre-Blutec CDI's are very nice cars...I almost bought a 2006 E320 CDI back on '08, but then the 335d popped up into the market and I waited the year to get the D. As other 335d owners have noted, although both cars are very nice vehicles in their own rights, the 335d is most definitely sports-oriented. E90s aren't particularly bad on electrics, and I have had no issue with my D less a replacement of the steering wheel heater switch. Regarding the engine, the M57 is a very mature powerplant. It's Bosch CP3.2+ common-rail fuel pump is an industry leader in reliability, very similar to those used by many automotive and light truck diesels around the world (in North America the Cummins ISB 6.7, Chevy Duramax, Ford Powerstroke 6.6 diesels all use the CP3 with nary a hiccup...very reliable over 100,000's of miles). I can't comment on the long-term reliability of the ZF 6HP26TU/28 personally other than to say it as well is a mature transmission, used in many vehicles worldwide. I have 52,000km on mine and it shifts just as smoothly now as the first day I got the vehicle.

If you like the sportier performance, both acceleration and handling, then I am sure you would like the 335d. Having had previous BMWs, all with the Sports packages, I would not get any BMW without it. The sports package, while having a firmer ride, makes for a tremendous driving experience. As well, the sports seats that come with the package are known to be some of the most comfortable seats in a mid-scale premium vehicle.

Regarding performance, Burger Tuning has the JBD tuning box which increases HP into the 300hp region and torque into the 500ft-lbs range, so you wouldn't be wanting for much more performance than that, as you are now driving a low-5 second 0-60/~11s 1/4mi car that still yields 40+ mpg on the highway driven conservatively.

Regards
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      05-28-2011, 11:34 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christopherchenm View Post
if you are planning to get it late 11 early 12 , wait for the F30
I heard that the N57 in the F30 isn't coming out until MY13, so if the OP wants a 335d now, I think MY11 is it.
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      05-28-2011, 12:34 PM   #12
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My metering valve has had to be serviced three times, and the throttle actuator valve twice. Neither of these issues has caused any problems with performance. Other than that, the car has been fantastic.
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      05-28-2011, 12:55 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christopherchenm View Post
if you are planning to get it late 11 early 12 , wait for the F30
I prefer to get the last few years of a production run when possible, usually the kinks have been ironed out at that point, plus the used prices are driven down a bit.
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      05-28-2011, 01:06 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Go for a BMW 528i, in the same class of your E-Class.

1. the body is more recent and more up-to-date
2. the 528i's fuel economy is almost dead-on as your E320CDI (22/32 vs 23/32)
3. the 528i has 240HP and your E320 only 210; the 528i is faster
4. you'll appreciate the comfort of the 5-series.
What a douche...

The 335d is a wonderful car, but on the smaller side by comparison withe 320. I enjoy drive my car more and more with each passing day, can't say that about many cars.

So far I have not experienced any electrical issues. The I-drive is a real pleasure to use.

I have not heard of ANY fuel pump failures or turbo failures and that includes owners who religiously take their tuned d's to the track. The transmission is a workhorse. Both the engine and transmission should last you well past 100k miles.

The only recurring problem seems to be with a clogged metering valve which is related to the emission system. I have experienced it, took in to BMW, they cleaned and reset the SES light. I hear the dealer will replace with a new valve if it occurs more than once. Most that have had the valve replaced never have the problem again.

Do yourself a favor and go take the 335d for a spin if you haven't already.
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      05-28-2011, 02:30 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolieman1220 View Post
Here we go again, i predict 5 pages.
I literally lol'ed. Hahahah- 5 pages
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      05-28-2011, 03:22 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socom View Post
The M57 is for the most part bulletproof. No hpfp issues. You are simply tradin luxury for performance
I agree with this. My father drives a 2006 E320 CDI and I believe the two cars are very different. (Neither of us would trade)

Both are very reliable though! In fact he said there were more problems with the 7-speed than the 6-speed in the E-class..


BTW the 335d transmission is rated to 450 lb ft of torque. It was shared with the previous generation 550, 650, & 750i

Last edited by CAPSGOD; 05-28-2011 at 03:29 PM.
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      05-28-2011, 04:09 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Go for a BMW 528i, in the same class of your E-Class.

3. the 528i has 240HP and your E320 only 210...
Whereas the "d" is lighter and has 425 ft lbs of torque (and can get 42mpg on the highway)....
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      05-28-2011, 04:16 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cssnms View Post
The 335d is a wonderful car, but on the smaller side by comparison withe 320.....do yourself a favor and go take the 335d for a spin if you haven't already.
I traded for two,and only two,reasons....1)I *needed* something with more back seat room and 2) I *wanted* something more luxurious than the "d".My Bluetec and my "d" are entirely different cars that both do what they were designed to do very well,indeed.
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      05-28-2011, 04:19 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socom View Post
The M57 is for the most part bulletproof. No hpfp issues. You are simply tradin luxury for performance
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      05-28-2011, 09:25 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cssnms
What a douche...
What a scumbag.

There is nothing in my answer that could trigger such a childish reply like yours.

Coming from an E-Class and its known plushness, the OP will be better served by a 5-series.
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      05-29-2011, 07:09 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
What a scumbag.

There is nothing in my answer that could trigger such a childish reply like yours.

Coming from an E-Class and its known plushness, the OP will be better served by a 5-series.
Unfortunately, I will only buy diesel cars from here on out. I've owned a 300SD and a Bluetec, and if I can help it, I'm a diesel guy from here on out. If there were a 535d in the states , I'd be all over it.
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      05-29-2011, 09:25 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubVBenz View Post
Unfortunately, I will only buy diesel cars from here on out. I've owned a 300SD and a Bluetec, and if I can help it, I'm a diesel guy from here on out. If there were a 535d in the states , I'd be all over it.
Unfortunately, DubVBenz, you're witnessing the vitriolic anti-diesel hatred from E90post's resident troll. Once again, he completely ignores a poster's questions about diesel cars, having failed to understand that you clearly DO understand the differences in luxury and performance and are looking for experiences of diesel drivers, preferably who have driven both a W211 and E90 diesel. He'll thrash around a bit about how the magical 528i is what you really want, being completely blind to the fact that it isn't even on your radar.

Back on topic, I have only driven a friend's '06 E320 CDI, but would love to drive a tuned version. There is no doubt that the big Merc diesel would be a very very nice car to drive. Although I am a fan of the 335d, I would be remiss if I didn't ask if you had driven the E350 Blutec? I have, and while the new W212 is still higher on the luxury scale than the E90, it didn't quite seem as nice as the W211.

In the end, I don't think you could do wrong with either a 335d or an E350 BT.

Regards
D.
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