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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > WOW!! What a race! Back from Bimmerfest, Proceed Equipped vs RD Sport Black Box*



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      05-07-2007, 01:27 AM   #1
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WOW!! What a race! Back from Bimmerfest, Proceed Equipped vs RD Sport Black Box*

Went to bimmerfest , it was great fun but was WAY too early for me. I normally wake up in the afternoon so decided to rest in my friend Sean's (not on forum) Jet Black 335i Coupe Manual on the way up. His car has Proceed, Milltek cat-back exhaust, Gruppe M intake and KW v2 coilovers. This car put 328 rwhp 389 rwtq on a dynojet 10 days prior without the Gruppe M intake. Standard 91 octane. He said the Gruppe M intake felt better on the higher RPMs

On the way back to LA from SB, there was a bit of traffic and we ended up next to the RD Sport Crimson Red 335i Coupe Steptronic, it looks beautiful. Started talking to Federico (he was driving by himself) to see what the car has and see if he was willing to do a "comparison" . His car has RD Sport Black Box, Quad Exhaust, 19" wheels and lowering springs. He agreed :rocks: to do a "comparison" as long as it was safe. He mentioned an alternate freeway where there would be a lot less cars.

We followed him to some 2 lane highway which seemed to be in the middle of nowhere to do this. Both cars slowed down to 60mph, third gear to do this. We did it on a finger count of 1-2-3. Both cars jump on it, both cars are head to head in 3rd gear then my friend shifts to 4th and Federico pulls a little bit forward as my friends car does something weird for a split second then continues pulling and the distance stays the same. I simply could not believe it. I checked the speedo and we are both going 140mph. So we decided to run it again because of that little glitch to see if we could possibly get ahead. We run it again, 3rd gear, 60mph...same results. Federico was right next to us the whole time. The starts were dead even, no one jumped ahead. We ran for the third time which Federico pulls just ever so slightly on us. Then we ran it again which it was dead even again.

What suprises me is that Sean's car has an intake over Federico's car and was manual transmission. Really curious to know how much power that car makes or if there was something underneath his sleeve. I doubt that he would not disclaim what he has.

Sean's car has 2800 miles on the clock, after the runs while still on the freeway, I ask Federico how many miles he has on his car which was 3000 then we parted ways. So the cars should be pretty even. Sean's car with the Gruppe M intake should have taken out Federico but it didn't. So my curiousity has risen. Is the Black Box faster? Yes, seems to be the answer since Sean has an intake which does make more power.

Before you guys say that Sean is a bad driver, just got his car, just learned how to drive or something... He has lots of driving experience, is aggressive yet very safe. No weaving in and out of traffic. Sean and his family has/had many fast cars including E36 M3, E46 M3, Ferrari 360, Challenge Stradale, F430, Porsche 996 Turbo...all with upgrades

Sorry there was no video or pictures of this.

The "comparison" topped off my day. Nothing more exciting than a good run Also, it was suprising how well the car felt at 140mph with the KW coilovers. It was extremely smooth the whole ride. I didn't feel scared that we were going to bounce off the highway.

What I would really like to see is a comparison between 2 cars with the same transmissions . Step should be better since it is more consistent
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      05-07-2007, 01:38 AM   #2
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He may have downpipes on his car. I am pretty sure they are coming out with a set of them so he would obviously be the first to have the prototype since he owns the company.

RD Sport exhausts are incredible quality but you pay top dollar for it. I had an RDSport Silencer on my e46 M3. Nicest lightest exhaust I ever saw But I still never got my Midpipe even though I paid for it (but that is another story).

Last edited by radgator1; 05-07-2007 at 01:54 AM.
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      05-07-2007, 01:47 AM   #3
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cool story, no technical input but nonetheless...cool story.
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      05-07-2007, 01:51 AM   #4
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+1 for RD Sport

I cant wait for RD Sport and AA tuning to have more time playing with their Xedes to tune it better and possibly provide us more power.

Seems like with only about 4 months of testing they have about the same whp/wtq as Vishnu's product. Which has been testing the 335 motor since September?
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      05-07-2007, 01:59 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SfValley335i View Post
+1 for RD Sport

I cant wait for RD Sport and AA tuning to have more time playing with their Xedes to tune it better and possibly provide us more power.

Seems like with only about 4 months of testing they have about the same whp/wtq as Vishnu's product. Which has been testing the 335 motor since September?
The power comes form increasing the boost so they are all up against the same limiting factor with the small turbos. The rest of the tune is for style points with a little more low end torqe or a little richer AFR under boost, etc. From a 60mph roll there isn't likely to be any significant difference between any of the piggybacks so the car with the best exhaust will win and it sounds like that is what happened.
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      05-07-2007, 02:38 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radgator1 View Post
The power comes form increasing the boost so they are all up against the same limiting factor with the small turbos. The rest of the tune is for style points with a little more low end torqe or a little richer AFR under boost, etc. From a 60mph roll there isn't likely to be any significant difference between any of the piggybacks so the car with the best exhaust will win and it sounds like that is what happened.
+1
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      05-07-2007, 02:48 AM   #7
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honestly, i don't it's the transmission but rather the weight of the cars. you had 2 passengers versus 1 person...and who knows how much gas you had in the tank and how much Federico had. assuming that you the extra person weighs 170 pounds more that could make the difference unless Federico is a BIG boy.

anyway, from what I've heard, the intake doesn't help much on turbo cars.
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      05-07-2007, 02:50 AM   #8
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Quoted from another thread...Maybe they're talking about you?
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Yesterday, 11:01 PM #11
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The Black Box.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry335
Nah the AA Xede is a much better deal and better tuned. Last I read RD Sport didn't even have control of spark or fuel yet.
Your post is incorrect. Even the very first beta version of the Black Box controlled both fuel and timing. The current release, 1.0 does all of the above plus removes the speed limiter and is prewired for the upcoming power switch on the center console. Of the three wiring looms available right now, I would dare to say that we have the most elegant solution.

We are still tweaking the maps and I took the car for the weekend after Bimmerfest to do some tuning in real driving conditions. On my way back from Santa Barbara I tested the Black Box (on our own car) vs. a Proceed. Our car is a steptronic and the Proceed was on a manual car. After 4 or 5 runs, all I can say is that the 2 cars were pretty much dead even, albeit ours being an automatic. If anything, we pulled away a bit in 5th and 6thgear. Today we spent all Sunday working on tweaking the maps in the Antelope Valley, were we could simulate almost all driving conditions. I think our car is noticeably faster today than it was yesterday.
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      05-07-2007, 03:04 AM   #9
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Sounds like if they were both with one person it would have been dead even.
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      05-07-2007, 03:24 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radgator1 View Post
The power comes form increasing the boost so they are all up against the same limiting factor with the small turbos. The rest of the tune is for style points with a little more low end torqe or a little richer AFR under boost, etc. From a 60mph roll there isn't likely to be any significant difference between any of the piggybacks so the car with the best exhaust will win and it sounds like that is what happened.

so can you explain to me why so many members on this forum think that Procede > than all piggybacks? Why would so many people on the forum be shocked if my AA xede dyno made the same/more than some procede users?

not to go off topic, but there was a dyno I posted which was taken from another forum which was from RD Sport that showed the procede was really pushing 14psi and not 12psi.
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      05-07-2007, 03:36 AM   #11
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your friend was not tune with the intake so you dont expect any gain with it, having tune by Shiv twice(with Evo)he always perfer the stock intake over aftermarket
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      05-07-2007, 04:12 AM   #12
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Agreed - intake's often lose power on these cars
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      05-07-2007, 04:20 AM   #13
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Yea someone pointed out that you guys were two people instead of one! +150 pounds on you guys that is if you are skinny hahaha.
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      05-07-2007, 04:55 AM   #14
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The weight is a factor below 60mph, not that much beyond 60mph. At beyond 60mph, the transmission losses of AT should make it to lose to MT. The higher the speed the more hp AT loses in comparison.

What are the differences in boost used by Procede and RD? I wonder if there is a difference in the heat generated.

Stock intake is limiting the power. A better intake should win. However, there must be a map tuned to go with the intake to get the benefit.
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      05-07-2007, 07:14 AM   #15
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The RD Sport car probably had the $580 Downpipe (Secondary cat replacement), therefore a freer flowing, not street legal (at least in Virginia), exhaust.

The PROcede car had a cat back.

Therein reside the "tiny" difference, probably.
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      05-07-2007, 07:29 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnj View Post
The weight is a factor below 60mph, not that much beyond 60mph. At beyond 60mph, the transmission losses of AT should make it to lose to MT. The higher the speed the more hp AT loses in comparison.
sounds like BMW has gotten the automatic trans perfect !

WOW !

ppp
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      05-07-2007, 07:52 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilyB View Post
The RD Sport car probably had the $580 Downpipe (Secondary cat replacement), therefore a freer flowing, not street legal (at least in Virginia), exhaust.

The PROcede car had a cat back.

Therein reside the "tiny" difference, probably.
Do they sell downpipes for 335i?

No cat-back or turbo-back is street legal yet, as far as I know. Not in Virginia or anywhere else. Or does some of the aftermarket exhaust have been legally accepted? For free flow it would be better to replace the primary cats instead of the secondary cats. Some cats, of course, need to be there to get the acceptance. Secondary cats are further downstream, so the catless downpipes would make perfect sense.

Last edited by bnj; 05-07-2007 at 09:01 AM.
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      05-07-2007, 09:00 AM   #18
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Good story. So how did the GruppeM sound?
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      05-07-2007, 10:31 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilyB View Post
The RD Sport car probably had the $580 Downpipe (Secondary cat replacement), therefore a freer flowing, not street legal (at least in Virginia), exhaust.

The PROcede car had a cat back.

Therein reside the "tiny" difference, probably.
I believe both cars had the secondary cats replaced by a downpipe. At least, this is my recollection after talking to the other driver.

Cupspeed, can you clarify?
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      05-07-2007, 11:02 AM   #20
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i dont think the intake made much of a difference in power at all honestly...

the weight definitely had to do with the minor lost and the fact that he has that exhaust which is lighter and gives a few HP more.... if it wasnt for that then it would have been dead even for sure like it almost was.... good story also thanks for sharing
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      05-07-2007, 11:08 AM   #21
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Best comparison is stock vs stock with the only mod being the piggybacks. Too much factors like weight and mods to say who won.
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      05-07-2007, 11:09 AM   #22
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Wheel/tire weight?
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